george lewis 'voyager'

You can talk about this george lewis thing now.

and hello good to see you hope all is gd.

His trombone work on Braxton 4tet albums feels austere too. Hard to find good 'bone-jams, but Lewis takes it just seriously enough.

"Concerto Grosso" w/Teitlebaum & Brax is live playing triggering apple computers real-time and while a lot of computer-generated music has that MIDI sound, Lewis's pitch vs. timbre spread seems wide enough to avoid what could have been big limitations inherent in the then-very-limited and glossy MIDI sound.

so if it all merges into a series of voices, with the distinct and slightly cringey 'bone and synth noises blunted, it becomes more of an integrated labyrinth. I tink lot's of 'puter noises are pre-programmed here even if he's left random patches, still all part of the "composition". Leading, triggering, following, things you noticed on "Concerto Grosso"; this thing is sparky and blotchy and somtimes sequential, but the way he makes chimes or vibes or whatever seemingly be part of the trombone/composition language, that's enough for me.

still i wanna listen to it more -- i'm quessing it rewards a closer relationship with listeners.

He's a music professor now. Perhpas he should be at the next world fair.

But Julio, "Monads" turns out to be aka "Shadowgraph (5)" and there's also "Duo w/Doug Ewert" and "Ode to Charlie Parker", all on Black Saint, of which I only dislike "Parker"(which is of course the critical fave, "Shadowgraph" deemed too "difficult" or "requiring too many listens"!)

Yeah, i wish Black Saint was still pumping out CDs and LPs. Incidentally, i got my copy of "Shadowgraph" from the UK, so it must be in libraries somewhere. He also did a trombone multi-track on a Sackville LP that's good.

I don't find myself drawn back to "Voyager" much sonically. Pretty average in terms of aeronautical display too compared to "Columbia" and totally lacking the sheer scale and extraordinarily trombonesque shapeliness of "Challenger".

I've been meaning to revive it but ... I am having a tough time coming to terms with this record. It's a real head-scratcher. I need to give it some undivided attention and really bore into the sucker, I think.

Incidentally, does anyone know what's going on with the Avant catalog?? It looks like everything is out of print! I was able to scare up a copy of Voyager on half.com, but some other stuff I never bought is proving elusive. I really, really want to get the John French and Joe Maneri discs but I can't find them anywhere :(

it was kinda fun, i imagine more so than a record of it actually esp.now

'He also did a trombone multi-track on a Sackville LP that's good'

george I have that - I recall it being talked about in my paul rutherford thread from a year ago (maybe longer). its ok but i remember enjoying the other stuff on the record a bit more.

xp

Teitlebaum's Concerto Grosso (w/Lewis) lags and so sounds not dumb as much as a bit slow, "me and my shadow". Grosso also sounds like it has bad taste since it made all these crass-sounding early MIDI noises.

Mark, were the virtuosity & range "good" and the chops auto-pilot trooper "bad"?

Voyager's tones are better matched and that's just the start of the "just exacty how many parameters are somewhat pre-programmed" issue. The record does not draw me back much. Maybe it's almost the opposite, too flat.

Avant was the expencive Japanese Zorn so i just got a couple. Tzadik surprises me sometimes. Teitlebaum did "Golem" for that, which is an "interactice opera" minus the visuals and interaction. Real opera singers have impaired progress too.

(no, bcz that's virtuosity, isn't it?)

the range seemed quite narrow, if you mean sonic or textural range (but no narrower than say a piano)

it was quite simple, misha mengelberg-fashion, but not a bit predictable and it didn't pall or feel repetitious

there was a lot of empty space, like it was thinking BUT... VERY... SLOWLY...

but this space wz used pretty well (i mean, MANY IMPROVISORS PLZ COPY frankly!)

Voyager is slow feeling. there are flurries, peacocks out of nowhere, but a different i say 'flat' or spacious feel. a flat lanscape more, with pointillism more than traditional momentum. Like a multi-panel painting loaded with caligraphy.

or "tinkly-bonk", as we used to say!

"tinkly-bonk" (+ few silent audience members' noises in squeaky chairs) = British improv, yes ?

pOp music in a different kitchen

(later)

guess i meant the post as eg of early Lewis tech interest just by taking rock multi-tracking into the world of jazz cats who i'd have thought spat on cats who don't record takes together, "can't play" etc. etc. Like he was making a technical move (for jazz), the idea being "does that mean he's labelling himself innovator ?"

bcx i remember the multi-rack seeming a bit obvious, more a demonstration of the "new high tech innovation" than a great composition, a demonstration of "research" which has always been (academic) Lewis's trajectory, or sideman for _other_ composers.

Thats's the qn. about Lewis. How much computer response parameters are programmed (?), cause some parameters must be by defn. So is Lewis just "publishing research" from music dept. ?

And are any of these "demonstartions" really proving he's a _good_ _composer_ or is he a good collaborator, tech guy, systems music guy, artist-safely-in-residence ?
(for "demonstrations", i'll still take TG)

are records like (Teitlebaum's) Grosso and Voyager actually good or are they for those who "had to be there" ? "Changing with the Times" got funding from US trusts for the arts thats board included one Milton Babbitt, this decision, for instance. Babbitt has a precious interest in championing "music research", people ONLY SOME of which it would be fair to acuse of hiding in academia.

hmmmm, lookin to register his exact tests scores in all these difft departmental categories = are you yrself workin for the govt's human resources dept, GG?

Matthew herbert has done something like this with an orchestra, I saw some footage of it on TV a cpl of weeks ago but it didn't do much for me.

he didn't mean to, he just poked it too hard while he wz blowin and it squeaked and died — ppl were thinkin oho! comedy fluxus moment, and chucklin, but then he said "actually i'm cross, i didn't mean to do that" and everyone went "oh!" sheepishly

:(

[insert LOL joke here]

Homage to Charles Parker is a very nice record, though, one of Teitelbaum's most interesting recorded efforts (not a big fan of his, either).

At a part-time university fun-with-music-computers course i tried 2 years ago i was repeatedly kicked out of seminars for daring to "improvise" in dialogue with the reigning music guru-in-residence even though such group sessions were meant to be collective discussions.

the criteria and assessment benchmarks were so wishy-washy as to be beyond the sort of "ligneous rock" of which the guru CT warns. i've always wavered between various think tanks and institutions mostly from "the left", but they often don't call me back. Obv. i'll work-from-the-inside on this artistic management catch-22 one day, but making my views public means they don't think i'll play that game, when of course i would much rather have been born into minor royalty.

(sorry people. off subject and george lewis can't win)

Anyone? Looks good..

all this AI music being rendered at such marathon lengths it might as well be live has led me back here, and all this stuff is not only holding up for me, it's the way out of all the nightmarish overtones set by all this google music. post-2010, Voyager's 90's-era orchestral sample libraries now evoke Far Side Virtual / Free Vapor

all those Black Saint records on youtube now, which led to me ordering them. 'Homage to Charlie Parker' is the AACM meets Gordon Mumma / Blue Gene Tyranny aesthetic link I wish I'd known about growing up, and his album on Lovely Music ties that all in

I don’t have the voyager album myself but I’m a huge fan. Saw him just in early March in DC presenting his composed music.

https://trostrecords.bandcamp.com/album/play-as-you-go

great live Czech festival recording from 2014 here w/Joelle Leandre/Pauline Oliveros

Oh great thanks!

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/myself-with-others/id1592833031?i=1000542065015

Shatz talking to GL

loads of Julius Eastman chat which is good