I especially hate the song New York, New York, not because it's overplayed, but because it's the embodiment of the idiotic attitude of slicksters who drive around in their BMW convertables listening to Sinatra and thinking they're "king of the hill, top of the heap." And as my girlfriend pointed out, why should we start spreading the news? Who cares if you're leaving? By extension, I hear this putzy attitude in a lot of Sinatra's music. Sure, he had a powerful, distinctive voice, and he knew how to deliver a song, but I can't stand listening to him. I'll take Bing Crosby, Louis Armstrong, Louis Prima, Dean Martin, or about anyone else over Frank.
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:54 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
I don't like the way he delivers every line as though he's singing about himself.
But that's such a big jazz singer thing. He didn't write any of those songs, so he had to own them by how he sang them.
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
I've heard Only the Lonely before, but I don't particularly remember it, so I'll try to give it more consideration.
I do admit, his phrasing was spot on.
― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― drfunk (DrFunktronic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
Frank's a better actor than he is a singer.
― Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:19 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
oh and side one of Sinatra and Company, the side w/Antonio Carlos Jobim.
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Aaron A., Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:48 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
I wouldn't give up my Miles Davis or Charles Mingus records either, and nobody ever accused those guys of being wonderful human beings.
A personal favorite album, and I can't say whether it would sway you or not, is the record he did with Antonio Carlos Jobim. The version of "I Concentrate on You" in particular doesn't sound anything like this:
Yeah, but I guess what I mean is that when he's singing a love song, I feel like it's more about him than a lover. I also feel like he's always doing his tough guy schtick, even when he's supposed to be vulnerable.
― Austin (Austin), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Heidy- Ho, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 07:05 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 07:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― bulbs (bulbs), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 08:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― xenografia, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 09:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
i do want to hear that late 60s thing he did that's supposed to be some bizarre attempt to be hip.
― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 10:13 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 10:22 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
absolutely. sinatra and his ilk ... it's become music for people who don't really like music, which is a terrible shame. the westlife and robbie covers are proof incarnate of this. "ooh, westlife are the new rat pack!" no they're not, they're a bunch of chancing fucks who haven't an original idea in their heads, and sinatra would have had them shot.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 11:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― bham, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 12:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 12:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 13:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
"My Way" is a piece of crap (I prefer Sid Vicious' version), and most of what he recorded after 1960-1961 is rather uneven, until 1968, when his output becomes unbearable. THAT'S when the style overwhelms the substance.
The image has interfered with his art for too long. I thought you guys were smarter than this.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 14:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 14:15 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:02 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
But consider the Rodgers & Hart material: "Little Girl Blue," "My Funny Valentine," and above all "Fly Me to the Moon." Classic, classic, classic.
And as for this--
I especially hate the song New York, New York, not because it's overplayed, but because it's the embodiment of the idiotic attitude of slicksters who drive around in their BMW convertables listening to Sinatra and thinking they're "king of the hill, top of the heap."
Doesn't this critique verge on being extramusical? Along the lines of "I can't stand [insert act here]--it's music for frat boys/people who wear ties and work in offices/people's dads/people's moms."
Ditto on the "he was an asshole" line of argument.
Yeah, but what about the music?
Dude was a great artist in his prime. But the memory of his bloated decline is what stays in people's heads.
― The Mad Puffin, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
Do you mean Watertown? It's a concept album/song cycle thingy, done in collaboration with someone from The Four Seasons (I think). It's bloddy great. For some reason it reminds me of Berlin by Lou Reed.
― Adam Faithless (Adam Faithless), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
But I got the message about ten years ago. His work up until about '67 is mostly great...the Capitol concept albums are all masterpieces. In fact, I used to yank the chain of this dude in Memphis who called Dylan "the Shakespeare of our generation" and all that shit--I'd say, "yeah, Sinatra was far better than Elvis." 'Cause really when you think about it they kinda did the same thing, at root--reviving old music, interpreting, doing the hits of the day, all that. I like Elvis fine but Sinatra was far and away the better singer. The dude would say, "but Elvis was doing something new, Sinatra was not." Howzzat? Elvis started out doing songs that had been done before, from Crudup and Bill Monroe and others, just like Sinatra was doing his Great American Songbook shit. I mean, Junior Parker and Crudup and Monroe, don't they belong in the Great American Songbook? It's just a matter of who's reviving whom, whether you were from Hoboken or Memphis.
Anyway, I don't have anything to say one way or another to those who don't like Sinatra--fine, there are plenty of lauded people about whom I'm indifferent for my own reasons (Neil Young, Van Morrison, the Ramones, Bowie, etc.). But to say Sinatra couldn't sing--I dunno. He certainly had the respect of everyone who worked with him, he had ears, he thought about what he was doing, he was a totally conscious artist.
Nick Tosches wrote a funny book about Dean Martin--many have said he played fast and loose with the facts. I think Dean was really what Frank wanted to be, an actual tough guy and all that. And Dean could sing, he was very good. But it's just Nick Tosches takin' the piss when he said that Dean was just as much an artist as Frank. Come on. Entertaining but just a product of Tosches's desire to be an iconoclast. Listen to Sinatra with Red Norvo, that live stuff, and tell me if he didn't deserve to be ranked with great jazz singers like Holiday and Armstrong.
― es hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Thursday, 3 February 2005 07:10 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― bulbs (bulbs), Thursday, 3 February 2005 07:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
As for Sinatra - it's all about "It Was A Very Good Year" for me, so sober and tragic and bittersweet; I like the way he talk-sings, so theatrical. I also associate the song with Leone's "Once Upon A Time In America" for some reason, all that nostalgia and regret and age. Bought "In The Wee Small Hours" last Summer, hoping for more stuff like that, but it kinda put me to sleep. Looking at the album cover seems much more rewarding than actually listening.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 3 February 2005 10:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Thursday, 3 February 2005 11:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― blawa (blawa), Thursday, 3 February 2005 13:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
all that swing shit is appaling though. bet jamie cullum's got his greedy little eye on an album of it too.
― debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
This is a ridiculous statement. Of course he was a musician, and a good one.
A few months ago I saw that one tv special where he does duets with Jobim and Ella Fitzgerald and then lets them do solo stuff, and it's so cool to see him sitting on the floor next to the stage just grinning and enjoying Ella's singing
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
that's one of the mysteries of art. Lou Reed is supposedly a real twat, and yet that twat wrote "Candy Says" and "Stephanie Says." The twat was responsible for "Berlin" and "Mistrial."
As for Sinatra not contributing to arrangements - well, that's ridiculous and ignorant assertion, based on the assumption that because he didn't play an instrument he just walked into a studio and sang the hell out of something. Sinatra not only sat down with Nelson Riddle and his orchestra to work out the arrangements, he also CONDUCTED the orchestra on several albums, most notably on a Dean Martin album whose name escapes me.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:54 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
it's just that this seems to go some way further; it's like the most extreme case i've ever heard - how can he ache so much for something he considers fundamentally worthless? it's such a mystery.
yep he was often quite passionate about the arrangements
― debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
It took me forever to realize that Sinatra's style reminds me post of spoken word poets. You either buy into how he's using rhythm and emoting across the sung lines and it gels when the material is good or it just seems incredibly indulgent and induces terminal eye-rolling
― mh, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:42 (one year ago) Permalink
are there any Sinatra songs with falsetto?
― Dominique, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:45 (one year ago) Permalink
idk man i feel like you need both sides
just not his "Both Sides Now"
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:45 (one year ago) Permalink
lol i set it up, you knocked it down morbs
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:52 (one year ago) Permalink
stick around, jack, it may show
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (one year ago) Permalink
besides disliking his musical output a lot there's something really off-putting about his face
like i try not to judge because people can't help their face shape, but he always makes me think of a sculpture bust that was so badly made it turned cursed and malevolent
― heliogabberlus, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink
Man, fuck Frank Sinatra; I can't go out for Italian, go to a mall, go to the fucking dentist without hearing this shit nonstop!
― Dan I., Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
first thing I picture when I hear his music in my head is the Maggiano's next to the Border's near my parents house blaring Sinatra out front.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink
Man, fuck Frank Sinatra; I can't go out for Italian, go to a mall, go to the fucking dentist without hearing this shit nonstop!― Dan I., Tuesday, February 6, 2018 3:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
weird, i don't hear him played as background music anywhere.
― vicious almond beliefs (crüt), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:40 (one year ago) Permalink
Literally everywhere that wants to project "class" or "manliness" or "classy manliness"
― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:02 (one year ago) Permalink
MitchDan I., out!
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:03 (one year ago) Permalink
I mean, i don't spend a lot of time in haberdasheries, but I assume it's all sinatra all the time
― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 23:04 (one year ago) Permalink
Sinatra fucking rules btw
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:16 (one year ago) Permalink
fuuuuck frank sinatra right in his smug mouth
― davey, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:27 (one year ago) Permalink
Or, IDK, maybe it was excusable in his heyday but being into Sinatra was already atavistic in the 70s, forget about now.
― davey, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:29 (one year ago) Permalink
you're atavistic
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 11:18 (one year ago) Permalink
Watertown is one of my favorite albums ever and I'm glad no filmmaker has ever gotten around to making a movie out of it.
― Simon H., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:48 (one year ago) Permalink
This ^^^
I was APPALLED to find no Watertown tracks on Alfred's best of list.
― The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:54 (one year ago) Permalink
I hadn't heard it! Facebook friends introduced me.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:57 (one year ago) Permalink
Tell it to the judge.
― The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:58 (one year ago) Permalink
Doobie doobie doo-doo imo
― I'm very active in the pegasus community (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:58 (one year ago) Permalink
It's a testament to his talent that you can buy him as a working-class schlub just trying to keep his family together (while in reality he was, on top of everything else, a damned steel magnate)
― Simon H., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 13:59 (one year ago) Permalink
I don't think I've ever listened to Sinatra on purpose. Him and Elvis, I get it but I don't really need it.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 14:22 (one year ago) Permalink
he was an awful person. and most of his most famous (nowadays) music sucks balls, and that badness is magnified a thousand times by the losers making a career off of being fake sinatras.
however, In the Wee Small Hours (and some of Where Are You?) is absolutely god tier amazing and pretty different to his usual swingin' prick persona.
― jamiesummerz, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 14:35 (one year ago) Permalink
challenging opinions
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 14:36 (one year ago) Permalink
What's this about Sinatra's swinging prick?
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 14:38 (one year ago) Permalink
Ava had no problem
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 14:43 (one year ago) Permalink
fake sinatra sounds like the name of a ska band
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:02 (one year ago) Permalink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trash_Can_Sinatras
― mh, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink
ILM lol
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink
there was a fellow when I was in college who posted to a local music messageboard who was obsessed with that, among other lesser-known bands
certainly out of my realm of expertise
― mh, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink
??? their second album is really great
― brimstead, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink
Their fans call them "the Trashies"
not "Frank Jr"
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink
darraghmac are you into trash can sinatras?
― brimstead, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:13 (one year ago) Permalink
Hum their big hit
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:13 (one year ago) Permalink
My wife is into the TCSs, they're good!
Btw the largest outdoor malls in L.A. play Frank Sinatra all the time. I mean I think it's literally all the time.
― omar little, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink
this thread is like if someone started a beach boys thread and just complained about how much they hated "kokomo" and how sick they were of all those stupid guys w/ their dumb surfboards trying to be cool. it's music for ppl who don't really like music, man!
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:12 (one year ago) Permalink
nah man, beach boys is music for people who think they like music but don't
― Dan I., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:15 (one year ago) Permalink
but re: sinatra being played non-stop in certain public places, are there any other artists that get this treatment? I've been in many public places where they seem to play Sinatra exclusively at all times. I think this is where the "music for people who don't really like music" thing comes from--there are a shocking number of people out there for whom music literally begins and ends with sinatra; they don't listen to anything else, at all. only thing I can think of that comes close is a dude I knew who had the complete discographies of leonard cohen and billy joel on his ipod and nothing else.
― Dan I., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink
like maybe Jimmy Buffett in the florida keys?
― Dan I., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink
i mainly hear sinatra in, like, those pizza places that have black and white photos of new york on the wall
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink
oh shit, i just remembered what probably was subliminally the entire reason I posted in this thread in the firs place! I was recently dragged to a lower-middle-brow cathedral: the dale chihuly museum at the foot of the space needle, and it was all-sinatra up in there. it was very fitting.
― Dan I., Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuIcRiHlHoY
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 18:55 (one year ago) Permalink
I have def been in a supermarket in the last year (in Brooklyn) where the PA was tuned to the Sirius Sinatra station.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:05 (one year ago) Permalink
if u dont fuck with this song i dont wanna know u on a deep personal levelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG9YAHYe80I
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Thursday, 8 February 2018 03:58 (one year ago) Permalink
the fuck is wrong w you people
― Entrepreneurial Jism Unshackler (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 8 February 2018 04:03 (one year ago) Permalink
September of my Years is a great album, maybe my second-fave overall
― Simon H., Thursday, 8 February 2018 04:13 (one year ago) Permalink
I fuck with "water to drink"
― brimstead, Thursday, 8 February 2018 06:12 (one year ago) Permalink
xps all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5F6PXAZIRg
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 8 February 2018 06:46 (one year ago) Permalink
"if u dont fuck with this song i dont wanna know u on a deep personal level"
"the fuck is wrong w you people"
couldn't help but hear both of these in sinatra's speaking voice
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 8 February 2018 07:11 (one year ago) Permalink
well I mean I am frank sinatra so that makes sense
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Thursday, 8 February 2018 11:34 (one year ago) Permalink