yeah, again, Mick Jagger and Dylan knew (of) them.
I bet Mick has listened to Newsom and Dirty Projectors
― Citole Country (bendy), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link
it's highly likely it was a Hall of Fame decision, they are famous for arbitrarily cutting out certain members, Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers had similar things happen:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-invite-all-five-drummers-to-rock-hall-induction-ceremony-126591/
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/489094/ex-chili-peppers-guitarist-feels-dishonored-by-rock-hall-snub#:~:text=The%20Hall%20recognized%20only%20three,Hall%20of%20Fame%20Foundation%2C%20told
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:06 (two years ago) link
The origin of the shared vocals thing is kind of interesting. I understand that one reason for it on Loaded was that Lou blew out his voice singing night after night at Max's, maybe there was some similar incident right before recording the third album as well.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link
I believe Lou thought Doug's voice would sound good on "Candy Says" so he asked him to try singing it.
Was it the HOF or Lou that said Doug shouldn't get in? (My money's on Lou, but I know the HOF pulls stupid shit like that all the time, e.g., "If you wanna be inducted, you can't include ____.")
The obvious thing is to assume Lou was responsible but who knows? Lou, Doug and Mo did some kind live onstage interview thing in 2009, which you can watch below, but I'm sure I read that Lou wasn't exactly friendly to Doug on the night.
https://www.nypl.org/audiovideo/velvet-underground-lou-reed-maureen-%E2%80%98moe%E2%80%99-tucker-doug-yule-david-fricke
― Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:17 (two years ago) link
Worth noting that with Doug in the band, the Velvets became entirely a Long Island combo.
― Starmer: "Let the children boogie, let all the children boogie." (Tom D.), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:19 (two years ago) link
Just the other day I learned that Moe was born in my neighborhood.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 October 2021 20:22 (two years ago) link
About two years ago I had the local “classic rock” station on while driving home from work. They were announcing upcoming shows, mostly tribute bands at sports bars, and in the middle of it was, “On Saturday Doug Yule will be playing at…” I almost drove off the road. Doug Yule playing at a local bar! What a perfectly under-the-radar thing for him to do!Come to find out it was someone named Doug Ewell.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:05 (two years ago) link
Awwwwww
― Mark G, Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link
Was Llew Riadh on the next night?
― Mark G, Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:17 (two years ago) link
Was that John Cale’s childhood friend?
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:39 (two years ago) link
This was fine.
It got, like the band, steadily more conventional.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:41 (two years ago) link
Was Llew Riadh on the next night?Yep, accompanied by Meaux Tuquer.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 21 October 2021 21:43 (two years ago) link
...and Jean Kale
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 21 October 2021 22:00 (two years ago) link
With Knee Coe?
OK, maybe not...
― Mark G, Thursday, 21 October 2021 22:26 (two years ago) link
Let's hear it one more time for Bruce "Bruised Knee" Coe, David Allen's Cherokee-eyed son!
This was fine.It got, like the band, steadily more conventional. Music docs will do that, a lotta times, but how would you say the band got more conventional?
― dow, Thursday, 21 October 2021 23:11 (two years ago) link
oh c'mon man
― Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Thursday, 21 October 2021 23:12 (two years ago) link
VU & Nico > WL/WH > 3rd > VU > Loaded is a progression that gets steadily more conventional in every way (I love them all but c'mon)
― Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Thursday, 21 October 2021 23:13 (two years ago) link
Loaded is pretty straight-on 1970 Rock Album (a little rootsy, a little jammy)
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 21 October 2021 23:52 (two years ago) link
So be it. Maybe I'd agree if I'd first heard them in the late 80s or 90s, after hearing a lot of bands who'd listened to them. But---I started listening in the 60s, maaan--more in the early 70s, and they never sounded conventional for the times---some familiar elements, but turned around, which continued with the versions on Live in 1969, VU, Another View, several bootlegs, and some excavations on Peel Slowly and See.
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:03 (two years ago) link
How many of you have seen Ken Burn’s Country doc?
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:04 (two years ago) link
Aaaarfh, Ken Burns’s
WL/WH definitely seems weirder to me than the debut, otherwise the progression works
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:05 (two years ago) link
Yeah, it's a good progression. Now, there are a few rawky, jammy things on the complete(?) legit Matrix tapes that seemed dated.
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:06 (two years ago) link
Still want a country duet ov "Pale Blue Eyes."
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:08 (two years ago) link
The VU became more conventional by design. Cale did an interview around 2012 where he stated that he wanted the VU to go in a more abrasive direction and Lou wanted to do prettier songs that were more commercial, and the impasse forced him to leave. (I *think* this was from 2012 because IIRC he also complained about the endless remastering of the catalog in light of the upcoming 45th anniversary box set for the debut album. I think he said "the resolution isn't there" and thought it was pointless to revisit their master tapes.) I think the progression actually works in their favor - it shores up the idea that they knew exactly what they were doing with their earlier avant-garde work because they could make great, timeless commercial music as well.
― birdistheword, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:44 (two years ago) link
Also many years ago, I remember an older friend (not from the U.S.) who met up with me and some others straight from an Irish bar in Evanston, and she told me and several others "hey, I was getting a drink at this place when this concert started up, and the guy was really great! His name was John Cale - do you know him?"
― birdistheword, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:48 (two years ago) link
xp Yeah, it's kind of the classic progression, isn't it? It would have been weird for them to get more abrasive, IMO. The change-up from WL/WH to LP3 was sort of that iconic "Blow everyone's minds by getting quiet now" move.
― juristic person (morrisp), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:49 (two years ago) link
The most punk thing is, like, not to be punk at all, man!
― juristic person (morrisp), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:51 (two years ago) link
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)
yes I was considering this qualifier, I think I agree
― Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:53 (two years ago) link
and the wild side-long improv stuff e.g. "Chic Mystique", "Nothing Song", "Melody Laughter", etc basically predate the 1st Lp and are way more in drone/La Monte Young territory
― Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:54 (two years ago) link
btw I LOVED how much LMY-related content was in this
― Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Friday, 22 October 2021 00:55 (two years ago) link
According to that trustworthy source "YouTube commentator", apparently Neil Young is the only other act than the Velvets to play a brand new song at his Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 22 October 2021 00:56 (two years ago) link
In its own way the third album is the most subversive.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 22 October 2021 01:00 (two years ago) link
It uses familiar acoustic arrangements to sneak in their midt subversive material.
The documentary should have only been about the recording of "Murder Mystery," of course.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:01 (two years ago) link
(Perhaps slightly more seriously, I was bummed to not get anything about "The Gift" at least.)
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:02 (two years ago) link
I was just thinking about how the first four Royal Trux albums kind of, very roughly, approximate the stylistic progression of the four VU albums (don’t know why I never realized that before).
― juristic person (morrisp), Friday, 22 October 2021 01:02 (two years ago) link
Yeah, good progression, but I still don't see what makes them a conventional band, other than conventional in their own terms (like the sneaky acoustic instruments that Alfred mentions): you learn what elements are likely to be involved, but not quite (sometimes at all) what the combination will be. Like those luvstruck souls in the lyrics...
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:09 (two years ago) link
The laidback instrumentation on the third album is also mainly undistorted electric guitars rather than acoustics; the effect is more doo-wop than James Taylor.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:12 (two years ago) link
I'll buy that but the let's say softer approach makes the likes of "Some Kinda Love" queerer.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 22 October 2021 01:13 (two years ago) link
My own fave version of that is on Live In 1969---or is it Live 69--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:19 (two years ago) link
Whatta ballad.
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:20 (two years ago) link
i just wanna say, as a Velvets novice this thread has been very informative!also: wow you guys are nerds lol j/k j/k
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 22 October 2021 01:21 (two years ago) link
Oh, word, it's true. (Also, Loaded's "New Age" starting like a Tennessee Williams-Andy Warhol soap opera, steadily morphing into a non-ironic-seeming Rock Anthem, but stately with it, incl. the big ol/ warm guitar twang, which was a familiar element, but now in a VU state of mind---and then those other verses, maybe other lives, on Live In 1969or whatever it is.
― dow, Friday, 22 October 2021 01:27 (two years ago) link
Hey, their biggest fan was an über-nerd, as recently discussed!
My own fave version of that is on _Live In 1969_---or is it _Live 69_--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 October 2021 01:45 (two years ago) link
Does anyone know what the supposed intended version of Loaded is supposed to be? I've never found a clear cut answer but there have been two sets of changes over the years.
First they unearthed unedited versions of "Sweet Jane," "Rock & Roll" and I guess two longer versions of "New Age," and then the 45th anniversary box set moved "Head Held High" after "I Found a Reason." I was surprised by the latter, but if you sequence it that way on older editions, you'll noticed that the vocalists all hold a note that would bridge both tracks, except they get faded out and back in again.
― birdistheword, Friday, 22 October 2021 02:06 (two years ago) link
I still prefer the shorter, originally released version of"Sweet Jane" although I do like the live version on 1969 which has that other part that had gone missing, but I guess I also still kind of prefer most of the US Beatles albums, don't know if it is equivalent or not.
― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 October 2021 02:26 (two years ago) link
And I guess I just don't know.
The big difference for me in terms of Loaded is that Loaded feels like a 70s record and the other ones feel like 60s records
And no I can't actually explain why it feels that way
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 October 2021 02:40 (two years ago) link
and of course it was released in the 70s but a lot of stuff from 70 feels 60s
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 October 2021 02:41 (two years ago) link