I Never Play My Caspar Brotzmann Records! And Yet, I'll Probably Never Get Rid Of Them.

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Cuz maybe SOMEDAY i will be in a Massaker mood. I only own 2 or 3. I'm actually playing Mute Massaker right now out of guilt. And I'm almost ready to take it off! But I like it okay. Remember when Caspar was the shit?

Records I am definitely getting rid of:

david j - etiquette of violence
ronnie aldrich and his two pianos - this way in
christopher cross - s/t
art garfunkel - breakaway
catherine wheel - happy days
guided by voices - mag earwhig!
jack kane - kane is able
the singing nun - soeur sourire

and MAYBE: the crystal mansion - s/t (i hesitate to get rid of 60's-era gunk unless it's extra gunky. this one is pretty gunky.) and MAYBE: Cliff Richard - His Land: A Musical Journey Through The Soul Of A Nation (It has novelty value, but who cares really? the only worthwhile thing on it is some whitebread jesus choir singing "dry bones" at the top of their lungs.)

Little by little I am trying to pry the crap loose from my tiny home. Some things don't want to leave! One shelf at a time. That's what I tell myself. I have a horrible beastie boys ten-inch with a Jam cover on it that is just BEGGING to be taken to the record store.And a Roots album that just stares at me blankly. (but ursula rucker is kinda cool!!! ahhhhh, she's not that cool.)

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

and when i say "gunky" i don't mean gunky as in their is actual gunk on the record itself. gunky as in crappy.i never buy records with gunk on them.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember Caspar as being "the shit" around the same time that Godflesh was considered "the shit". I never really got into Caspar too much. I have the duo record with his big poppa.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I stepped away after seeing him live and realizing he's the squatter's Yngwie, with Jim Thirlwell in a pompadour making faces stageside instead of Graham Bonnett. Infinite dud, but the dad kills moles in his sleep.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link

same here, but with Peter Brotzmann

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I saw him live, too (at the Stone Pony, opening for Helmet), and have actually taken those records off the shelf and played them within the last 12 months. I remember being quite excited to find a copy of Black Axis and a copy of Last Exit's Iron Path in the used bin at Kim's - on the same day!

pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I wish you all could hear how amazingly great my firstpress/stereo/U.K./Deram copy of Stonedhenge by Ten Years After sounds right now. Fucking amazing sound. They will have to pry it from my cold dead hands. and i'm not a ten years after freak or anything.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i got rid of my caspar records, but i probably shouldn't. i too, have the duo lp with daddy. overdubbing suxxx (and i like the one with bill laswell better).

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link

did anyone ever listen to that record page hamilton made with a brotzmann. it was caspar, wasn't it?

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:32 (nineteen years ago) link

never did pick up the laswell/brotz, dunno why. used to see it around a lot. Probably still will grab it someday.

Alvin Lee, now there's a guitarist. Is that the one with the 10 minute "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" on it? i love that.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link

No, this one has "Speed Kills" on it! It's just a great weird record. Produced by Mike Vernon. What else did he produce?

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

i just googled him. he produced savoy brown's blue matter! no wonder i love him. he did lotsa brit bluesrock records. and made records of his own too apparently.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Mike Vernon! He won Stanley Cups with the Calgary Flames and Detroit Red Wings! Ended the 40 year drought in Detroit! He will always be a hero in Motown.

oh yeah, there was a British guy with the same name. Blue Horizon label, Aynsley Dunbar Retaliation, Fleetwood Mac, Chicken Shack, etc.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

wow, he did their debut too. that record also sounds amazing. he did the sound for undead too.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

the laswell/brotz is good. one of the few things i like with laswell on it.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i think i just had the "i'm about to sell my caspar brotzmann" cds conversation on a sonny sharrock thread a few weeks ago. sounds too much like sonic youth to these ears :(

The JaXoN 5 (JasonD), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

What else did [Mike Vernon] produce?

Here's what to do. Get ahold of Bob Brunning's "Blues: The British Connection : The Stones, Clapton, Fleetwood Mac and the Story of Blues in Britain" which probably has a holdover chapter on Mike Vernon from his earlier book. Pretty much gives you the names of all the records Vernon had a hand in which are worth owning.

Almost all the really good Savoy Brown records were Vernon produced. Then his assistant took over. Focus were produced a number of times by the guy. He had a knack for capturing warm, heavy non-metal guitar tone to tape in a way that sounded big and thick without crushing the rhythm section or the vocalist. He allowed people to push the amps and play loud, I think, capturing the live attack of his bands. This was very complimentary to that style of music -- white boy blooz just tumbling over into boogie rock and roll with the density of heavy metal. I don't think I have a single record produced by Mike Vernon that I don't like. Not only was the tone always great but also seemed to be discriminating in the people and material he wished to work with.

George Smith, Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link

he wrote the liner notes to The Blue Horizon Story, a 3CD set which surveys the label. Gives little details and anecdotes about each of the tracks and artists, very informative.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

(he = Vernon, not Brunning)(hey didn't Brunning play bass on the first Fleetwood Mac record? something like that)

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

"Not only was the tone always great but also seemed to be discriminating in the people and material he wished to work with."

YES YES YES!!!! To everything you said, but especially about the tone that he got. Wotta sound! I really think my enjoyment of those early savoy brown records have a LOT to do with the sound he/they got. yeah, the internet actually has tons of info when i googled. Just marvelous. Crystal clear and yet there is depth and bottom as well! I really get excited by stuff like that. I wonder if the CDs sound as good? I've never heard any ten years after of savoy brown on CD. I can't imagine them sounding any better.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

and he produced bare wires too! which is the only mayall album i LOVE. again, i'm no mayall freak. and that definitely has that stonedhenge sound. in fact, i was thinking about it when i was playing that record today. okay, it's official. he's a genius. i just never paid attention to who recorded those records. i can't believe i wasn't more curious.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:49 (nineteen years ago) link

he produced david bowie's first record. and all the peter green mac albums. has anyone heard his OWN early 70's albums? seems he had two.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link

hey didn't Brunning play bass on the first Fleetwood Mac record

Possibly. He was in Fleetwood Mac and one of the first editions of Savoy Brown. I had the very first Savoy Brown record. It sucked. Start with "Getting to the Point." Scott, that should be easy to score on vinyl if you don't have it.

And, yep, Vernon produced Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac. I think my favorite is "Then Play On" although I could be wrong about the producer. "Pious Bird of Good Omen," certainly.

I have all the Savoy Brown CDs and I'm pleased with them. Never A'B/d them against the vinyl. "Blue Matter" really satisfies. There is a two-CD box that compiles the best of vintage Savoy Brown from the very first, and wretched, album to "Savage Return." It's an excellent place to start if you want to pick and choose which things to get in later shopping. It's also good, sequencing-wise, in its own right. The albums, you may have, that I recommend are "Point," "Blue Matter," "A Step Further," "Raw Sienna" and "Looking In." "Street Corner Talking" is also exceptional.

I do know the Ten Years After material has been through a few rounds of remastering. Never bothered to get the updates. One of the things I listened to most was "Alvin Lee & Company" which was a put together of Vernon leftovers after TYA left the label for bigger bonuses on Columbia, I think. Of course, most of the later stuff eats it compared to the initial recordings. Gotta have the fifteen minute version of "Boogie On," though.

George Smith, Friday, 11 March 2005 00:43 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost, Scott: Mike Vernon's own albums, you mean? Seems like they were favorably reviewed in Creem (or at least one of 'em was: a split review with a solo album by Mike Kenneally of Crabby Appleton, maybe?) I'll ask RRiegel.

don, Friday, 11 March 2005 00:48 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, i have blue matter, a step further, raw sienna, and looking in. i love all those. i don't know if i still have a copy of street corner talking though. mike vernon produced dr.feelgood albums too. And he produced the first five Bloodstone albums!!!! the plot just thickens and thickens.

yeah, don, vernon's solo records.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Correcting Don on Crabby Appleton trivia! Mike Fennelly was the C.A. guy. Mike Kenneally is a guitarist who played with Zappa in the '80s or something I think.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

While waiting for Richard's reply: thanks, Tim! Yeah, I just AMGed this area, and I did mistake Mssrs. K.&F., but was shocked to see that the two Creem-reviewed titles I was thinking of were right: Mike Vernon's was MOMENTS OF MADNESS(featuring 2 ex-Zombies, Chris White and Rob er Rod Argent; the other was BRING IT BACK HOME, listing all blues covers, though AMG doesn't actually review, just gives 'em both 2 stars). Mike Fennelly's was LANE CHANGER (He was first in several Curt Boettcher studio crews, like the Millenium and Saggitarius, and then Stonehenge, a blues-rock band [speaking of Mike V. producing TYA's Stonedhenge)that became the poprockier Crabby Appleton, and one of their albums was produced by Don Gallucci, of Don & The GoodTimes, who also produced the Stooges.)Still got one of their LPs, the self-titled one I think; liked it pretty well, but not as well, as the Creemsters. As for Mike Vernon, his AMG bio (by Richie Unterberger) incl. all the xpost info (adds the R&B group Bloodstone to his non-blues productions like Focus and Bowie, but warns that particular Bowie, despite DB's background in blues and R&B, was way into his Anthony Newly faux-cockney extended warbling phase). Points out that Vernon-produced BLUESBREAKERS, the only Mayall un with Clapton (until mebbe John's 70th birthday roundup?), was the first great *all*-blues album from UK. Lots of blues in first-rate groups like Stones, Animals, Yardbirds, but they also featured R&B, rock, pop appeal. He says that Mike also produced Mayall's only album (?) with Peter Green, A HARD ROAD. Think that's right, although other members of F.Mac did record with Mayall on other albums.

don, Friday, 11 March 2005 02:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Remember when Caspar was the shit?

yes, sir. "black axis" is still pretty good to my ears, but i know he somehow lost cachet with music snobs at some point. maybe it was after the einheit collaboration. now i look at the same $4 used copy of "koksofen" every time i go to the record store and think "maybe when it's cheaper."

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Friday, 11 March 2005 04:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'll keep BLACK AXIS and if I had the one with Big Poppa (I've got most all the Last Exits and No Material and his earlier MACHINE GUN), I'd keep that too, I expect.

don, Friday, 11 March 2005 04:47 (nineteen years ago) link

dude --

MAG EARWIG is a great record. "jane of the waking universe" --

cobra verde & pollard --- uh man.

larry is dead, Saturday, 12 March 2005 01:58 (nineteen years ago) link

pollard ruins the record

L. Thompson, Saturday, 12 March 2005 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Bought Home for $3.00 ten years ago and don't think I've even gotten my money's worth. I dunno, his soloing just fails to hold my interest, and his Blixa-vocalizing is irritating. (I'd enjoy it more if it were vice-versa!) And really don't know why I haven't gotten rid of it - maybe I'm hoping it will improve with time. But really, I have little need for it since I own stuff by Rudolph Grey and Massacre and Sonny Sharrock and Randy Holden (and even Pat Metheny's Zero Tolerance For Science, all of which sound like I WISHED Caspar did.

But as long as we're talking Brötzmanns, I just gotta add that I recently was pleasantly surprised to discover the existence of a CD called Hyperion by Marilyn Crispell/Peter Brötzmann/Hamid Drake. It was recorded June 26, 1992 during the Du Maurier Jazz Festival in Toronto, and is (as far as I know) the only LP documenting a concert I personally attended.

Myönga Vön Böntee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 12 March 2005 13:29 (nineteen years ago) link

more i need to get rid of:

afghan whigs - black love (listened to all of once. anything that doesn't get listened to in 9 years should probably go.)

man or astro-man? - experiment zero (ditto!)

butthole surfers - electriclarryland (double ditto! 1996 was a banner year for one-listen wonders!)

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 13 March 2005 14:19 (nineteen years ago) link

That's the good thing about someone as exhaustively documented as P. Brötzmann. The Cooler Suite, on Grob, is a recording of a show I was at.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 13 March 2005 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...

why do i own so many friggin' gary numan records? i don't think i've ever even listened to some of them!

scott seward, Saturday, 5 April 2008 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link

This is a great thread!

Ward Fowler, Saturday, 5 April 2008 22:35 (sixteen years ago) link

I have owned records that took me 10 years to get into. I regret selling any and all of the ones I have sold over the years. Well, except maybe for Ellen Allien.

libcrypt, Saturday, 5 April 2008 22:44 (sixteen years ago) link

Koksofen has never stopped getting play around my house. I saw that tour with about 50 others at the Satyricon here in Portland. Engine Kid opened.

I heard of him because on the Black Axis tour, my buddy in Minneapolis saw him open for Morgoth and Kreator. I would kill to have seen that tour...

Nate Carson, Saturday, 5 April 2008 22:53 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah he played at the old John Henry's on 11th in Eugene on that tour, I still have a guitar pick from it! I have Koksofen and The Tribe, but I have not listened in years. I think about them though! And I probably will never sell them.

sleeve, Saturday, 5 April 2008 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link

I have sold over 1000 items over the past 24 years and only ever repurchased 3:

Siouxsie & The Banshees - The Scream
Gang Of Four - Songs Of The Free
Goblin Mix - The Complete

I've been curious enough to redownloaded a few things only to confirm the wisdom of selling them.

Scott - I sold that Man Or Astroman album too! But kept that Catherine Wheel, it's half good.

Mr. Odd, Saturday, 5 April 2008 23:49 (sixteen years ago) link

As long as there is at least one good song on a record, it needs be kept.

libcrypt, Saturday, 5 April 2008 23:51 (sixteen years ago) link

two months pass...

I have the duo lp with daddy. overdubbing suxxx (and i like the one with bill laswell better).

Wait, there's overdubbing on that record?? Kinda been wanting that but if it aint' straight up duo style I'm not interested

I'm a Caspar newbie - maybe I should stay that way? Am I going to be horribly disappointed if I'm expecting some sort of Stefan Jaworzyn full-on guitar assault?

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Saturday, 21 June 2008 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

i have waaaaaaaaaaay too many wendy/walter carlos records, that's all i know. like, a dozen! wtf? when do i ever play them? how about never!

scott seward, Sunday, 22 June 2008 01:26 (fifteen years ago) link

ten years pass...

Heads up:

Southern Lord is proud to announce the first in a series of CASPAR BRÖTZMANN MASSAKER album reissues -- beginning with the masterful debut The Tribe, originally released in 1988, and second album, Black Axis, originally released in 1989 -- both remastered and presented as they were when originally released. After reissuing the first five albums, they shall later be made available in a collector's boxed set complete with extensive liner notes, artwork by BRÖTZMANN, as well as a silkscreened print which will be hand numbered and signed by the artist. Full details of the series to be revealed in the coming months. CASPAR is also rumored to be working on brand new material.

Southern Lord will reissue CASPAR BRÖTZMANN MASSAKER's The Tribe on CD, LP, and digital platforms and Black Axis on CD, 2xLP, and digital platforms on January 18th, 2019. Watch for preorders to post shortly.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:21 (five years ago) link

Just pump these directly into my veins

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:23 (five years ago) link

I will buy this despite the fact that most of these albums that can be easily found in almost every CD dollar bin in America

Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:40 (five years ago) link

still have those first two records, they were great

my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

Just got my copies of the reissues last night. Shouts to Southern Lord for the simple, straight forward quality presentation, no bells & whistles just the records. And the remastering /pressing, holy god Black Axis in particular sounds incredible. If I were still worried about getting my music recorded and pressed and sounding good this record would instantly be in my reference pile.

Does anyone know who did the remaster? I didn't recall a credit on the jacket and internet didn't turn anything up, whoever they are they did a great job.

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 17 January 2019 14:18 (five years ago) link


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