TS John Wetton vs. Chris Squire

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I don't listen to Yes much, but I'll take Wetton for his work with Roxy Music and King Crimson. The rest of his career I'm turning a blind eye to.

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I seem to be implying that Wetton was in Yes, but in fact he was only in Asia.

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris Squire

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

URIAH HEEP

actually I'm not really into Wetton-era Heep. I'm a Gary Thain guy through and through.

I pick Squire. One of the most distinctive bass guitar sounds of all time.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Heart of the Sunrise = sickest bass tone ever
Plus you gotta give it to Squire for being the only guy to play on every Yes record.

I know Wetton-era Crimson has the most hipster cred or whatever but I really prefer the first two records w/Lake on vocals. Larks' Tongues and Red are great but Crimson King will always be my jams (having something to do with the fact I bought ItCotCK in 1995 the other Crimson stuff much later).
I've listened to little Roxy Music and even less Asia.

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

plus Squire was in a band ridiculously named Mabel Greer's Toy Shop! and he wrote one of my very favorite Yessongs, "Beyond and Before".

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn I'll have to check that out sometime, I still don't have those first two Yes albums.

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Sunday, 20 March 2005 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(just listened to the iTunes clip of that song, nice!)

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Sunday, 20 March 2005 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't really like the second, Time And A Word. bad songs, bad decisions such as bad orchestral overdubs. But the first, self-titled one is awesome! if you can get past Peter Banks's often lame guitar playing. I can. yeah, "Beyond and Before" is totally great, Squire wrote it with his previous band -- that Mabel Greer's Toy Shop thing -- but brought it to Yes. first album also has the really beautiful and pretty "Yesterday and Today" -- Anderson sounds so sweet on this one...

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Sunday, 20 March 2005 10:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the covers on the first 2 albums - Dave Crosby's "I See You," Steve Stills' "Every Days" and the Beatles' "Every Little Thing."

― Amy Meacham, Sunday, 20 March 2005 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris Squire wins it for me, even if only on account of the fact that he plays a Rickenbacker. The bass tones on The Yes Album are just so delish, and listening to Wetton has never made me want to buy his bass guitar. If it were a question of who's the most evil, Wetton would win, easily - some of that King Crimson stuff he plays on sounds like blood on the walls.

― Deluxe (Damian), Sunday, 20 March 2005 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Wetton was in Family too! Good singer into the bargain!

― Dadrock Holmes (Dada), Sunday, 20 March 2005 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you casting a vote, Dada?

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 20 March 2005 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Wetton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Dadrock Holmes (Dada), Sunday, 20 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris Squire, because he was (is) in Yes :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 March 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't fucking debate side 2 of Fragile unless maybe you're Dancing In Your Head or Zep 2. Plus, Squire didn't sing.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 20 March 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Asia's early singles are grebt.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 20 March 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Answer: Bill Bruford!

I'd take Squire--Fragile has some of the best bass playing, by anyone, ever

― Keith C (kcraw916), Sunday, 20 March 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

(x post) I agree. First album is a guilty pleasure for me. But Chris Squire is the bestest.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Sunday, 20 March 2005 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Squire -- Wetton's starting to get docked points for too many '90s-'00s 'Live in (insert backwater location here)' releases. Although I will say that the first UK record (which no one's mentioned yet) is amazing.

― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Monday, 21 March 2005 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I much prefer that Crimson stuff to Yes's. I even like some of those Family albums like "Bandstand" Wetton is on. Squire is flashier--I don't know, I am suspicious of that whole trebly Rickenbacker thing he did, but I guess it's appropriate for Yes. I don't think either one of them is all that great, no groundbreaking ideas there, but I vote for Wetton.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 21 March 2005 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Tough choice. Wetton played on more records that I like (played in more BANDS that I like) whereas Squire only played in one, and I don't even care much for post-Bruford Yes. But Squire takes it in the end, 'cause he & Bruford made such a great rhythm section, plus I'm a fan of that "trebly Rickenbacker thing" (like Lemmy!) Also, I enjoyed the Tormato envelope-filter stuff condemned as "disco" by certain prog diehards.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Squire, no question. Roundabout was probably one of the early reasons I picked up a bass instead of a guitar...

― blawa (blawa), Monday, 21 March 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

The entire thread all Yessed out except for dissenters Dadaismus and edd s hurt? Most predictable thread evah.

― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I've heard people complain that Squire plays bass "more like a guitar." But what's so awesome is that he really plays it like a bass and a guitar at the same time! How does he do this, with four arms? We mortals can only wonder ...

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 21 March 2005 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

He plays with a pick, so that might be why he gets the guitar player comparisons.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

No Dave Q on this thread yet? I'm honestly surprised!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd have to go for Squire too, but add Phil Manzanera's solo LPs to Wetton's column.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

He plays with a pick, so that might be why he gets the guitar player comparisons
Yeah, he's playing a Rick with a pick, and he's holding his bass pretty high up on his chest. When he can play like these young kids that play that fast with their fingers on a five string bass hanging down around their knees then he'll be showing me something!

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

No Dave Q on this thread yet? I'm honestly surprised!

nor alex in nyc!

my vote is for squire -- his style is distinct and unmistakeable.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I really prefer the first two records w/Lake on vocals.
Although he is technically not part of this thread, I would like to say that Greg Lake's bass playing on the live ItCotCK-era stuff is really pretty good.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

add Phil Manzanera's solo LPs to Wetton's column.

And add the "Manzanera & Wetton" solo LP to Squire's column.

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, I know he plays with a pick and was semi-joking.

But I do think he manages to fill both roles at the same time, while Steve Howe is a surprisingly tasteful guitarist for a prog band and manages to step out of the way when necessary.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Yup, I'll go for Squire because of the sound and the lovely melodies he picks out. I swear I've never heard a better rock bassist.

― Spoombung (spoombung), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Squire. I've been listening to Fish Out Of Water a lot these days. Though I also heard a boot of a recent Asia reunion show and Wetton's still sounding great - vocally - but his bass playing is sloppy. Btw, Asia doing "In The Court Of the Crimson King" is fairly WOW.

― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Monday, 25 September 2006 19:14 (nineteen years ago)

tone: squire
playing: wetton
singing: watch out (though squire's voice has a weird, hermaphrodite quality that's kind of interesting)

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 25 September 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

take off hosers

― dave q (listerine), Monday, 25 September 2006 20:14 (nineteen years ago)

gotta go with wetton. not that it's an easy choice, squire was extremely talented but apt to overplay. wetton simpler playing really helped keep King Crimson keep a raw, primal edge. he clearly had less chops than the rest of the band, but i wouldnt have it any other way.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 25 September 2006 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

Although I will say that the first UK record (which no one's mentioned yet) is amazing.

ugh, it's terrible. I finally heard this after being a fan of everyone involved (well, except for holdsworth) for many years. blah.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 6 November 2006 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

anybody remember Wetton "guest VJ-ing" on MTV around '82 or so? then backing out of a major televised concert ("Asia in Asia") at the last minute, to be replaced by Greg Lake?

― Robert Acosta (Rob 77), Monday, 6 November 2006 23:20 (nineteen years ago)

purely as singers:

best-worst = squire-lake

wetton's is awful but i hate greg lake's voice more than ANYONE ELSE ANYWHERE'S

king crimson had a totally seamless tapestry of world-beatingly dreadful singers -- every now and then this worked for them (viz "ladies of the road", which is a hideously ugly song which puts across the hideously ugly attitudes of those singing and performing it)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 6 November 2006 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

eight months pass...

squire's voice is kinda weird, but interesting (dominique otm)
wetton was godlike for 2 years in crimson, what a menacing sound he had, but his bass playing since then has been often merely adequate

― gershy, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 07:42 (eighteen years ago)

Wetton's work on the song "Red" is mind-blowing.

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

First off, they both played Ricks.

Secondly, this idea that Squire was better technically does not remotely hold up if u listen to "Larks Tongues Part Two" or "Fracture," as well as several others from that era. Wetton absolutely SMOKES on those two tracks.

And yes, Squire uses a pick.

And please: Wetton's an EXCELENT and warm singer. He's just sung crap more often than not.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Folks who prefer Squire to Wetton based on tone must be showing early signs of high frequency loss or have not actually listened closely to Wetton-era Crimson records.

― Nubbelverbrennung, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

Also most (all?) of Wetton's best work was played on a Fender Precision.

― Nubbelverbrennung, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

Not with Crimson, I don't believe (tho' I could only find this pic of Asia, which is truly remarkable and not very relevant):

http://img3.freestart.hu/images/4/d/39034_b8580a33db_n.jpg

As for tone, agreed -- check "Lark's Tongues Pt. 2" live on USA. Then come back and discuss tone.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

The guy on keyboards has a tv on top of his rig.

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

It's a Fairlight, dood.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

This clip is rather wicked.

― Davey D, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

Also most (all?) of Wetton's best work was played on a Fender Precision.

I thought he played a Fender Jazz...?

― Davey D, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

i like KC better than Yes, but Squire's tone is so kick ass and he's generally awesome, whereas Wetton doesn't really stand out for me and sings like a douche.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

"I thought he played a Fender Jazz...?"

Did you actually WATCH that clip?

― Nubbelverbrennung, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

Folks who prefer Squire to Wetton based on tone must be showing early signs of high frequency loss or have not actually listened closely to Wetton-era Crimson records.

see also: they have different tones. If I'd heard those KC records any more, I'd probably be in the band.

I like the rubber-band-ish sound on the early Yes records. I actually like Wetton's tone too, and you can definitely hear it all over, say, some Ruins songs. Maybe the perfect tone would be Squire plus a bit more *bass* and w/some of Wetton's distortion.

― Dominique, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

I went to see Asia last fall: Wetton is pretty chubby now and his tone was kinda weak…Carl Palmer is, I think, the most groove-challenged "major" drummer I've ever heard. They did "Fanfare for the Common Man," "Roundabout," "Video Killed…" and "In the Court…" which of course Wetton didn;t even sing on origianlly…

The consensus among the people I chatted with (many of whom were were moms and dads on a date night) was like "these guys are from an era when you had to PLAY YR INSTRUMENTS WELL." sigh.

― Veronica Moser, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

nine years pass...

John Wetton RIP. Not announced officially yet, but all over Twitter and Facebook.

― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 10:41 (nine years ago)

Two KC singers in as many months.

― 29 facepalms, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 11:50 (nine years ago)

Confirmed. He certainly had an interesting career, never out of work for very long!

― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 12:13 (nine years ago)

Best KC vocalist in my opinion. There's a kind of strained quality in his voice as though he's not sure he's making the notes, but his voice was perfect for RPJ's lyrics. RIP.

― heaven parker (anagram), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 12:56 (nine years ago)

^ Yes. He's the only pre 80s singer that sounds like he's singing his own words (even though he's not obvs). Bass fuzz tone on Providence is the gold standard for how that should sound.

― 29 facepalms, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 13:24 (nine years ago)

Love him. What do you think is his best work other than King Crimson?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 13:48 (nine years ago)

Really? Fuck.

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 13:48 (nine years ago)

Oh man... RIP.

His bass tone and vocals helped make my favourite KC era what it was.

― ultros ultros-ghali, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 13:50 (nine years ago)

aw shit, he was KC as much as RF while he was in the band

― PURE, BEAUTIFUL OIL (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 14:01 (nine years ago)

RIP

otm re: his bass tone - I feel like it prefigured a whole generation of not just prog players, but noise rock folks a la Lightning Bolt. His lines were good too -- what he plays in the middle section of Starless makes the song for me.

― Dominique, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 14:02 (nine years ago)

I guess we're doing the tribute on this thread - that's OK. I really love John Wetton. "What do you think is his best work other than King Crimson?" - Well, depends on whether you're interested in engaging with his songwriting or not. If you are, then UK, Asia, his solo albums, and Icon.

― timellison, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 17:06 (nine years ago)

Loved Asia growing up and that was my entry point to his King Crimson work. Rest in peace.

― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 17:12 (nine years ago)

And let's not forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kcIs5hJAIw

― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 17:13 (nine years ago)

Aw fuck. RIP :(

― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 20:33 (nine years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Bc3FGPXZI

― timellison, Tuesday, 31 January 2017 23:16 (nine years ago)

RIP. My favorite KC singer, one of my favorite bassists and the executor of my favorite bass moment of all time (toward the end of Starless... i went on at length about it in some other thread).

― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 February 2017 17:05 (nine years ago)

six years pass...

https://www.loudersound.com/news/bill-bruford-surprises-fans-with-live-performance-at-john-wetton-tribute-show

― Tommy Gets His Consoles Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 August 2023 19:27 (two years ago)

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