So, if I think Metal Box is one of the greatest albums of all the time, should I think John Lydon is godhead?

i like that. and if there's anything we need, it's less sid vicious worship.

"Had John TESH taken Chapman's bullet instead of John LENNON that early December day in 1980, Tesh would be completely revered as a rock music legend, and Lennon would have stuck around to jump sharks."

So, so true...

Minor details!

Lydon may not be a musician per se, but he was the "auteur", deserving credit and blame for PiL's wildly uneven career. That's why I give him the credit for "This is Not A Love Song," "Rise," and the three or four other post-Metal Box bits of genius. What have Keith Levene, Jah Wobble, Martin Atkins, John McGeogh, et al done after working with Lydon?

actually, i was listening to the DFA remix of "rise" by delia gonzalez and thingy thingum in teh GYM this morning and i'm positive the introduction, the way the beat comes in, is a wry nod to the PiL one. (apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere.)

Fr'instance the way he sings 'Clee-oh-pat-ra, rrrrat-cat-cha!' on Cruel is just fanstastic.

Do you really want the entire list?

"Don't ASK ME, cuz I DON'T KNOW!"

I'm sure someone else has already point that out.

but the crux of it is that the Pistols' music was Jones and Matlock, PiL's best music Wobble and Levine -right?
Lydon's voice and lyrics alone do not a good record make.

no, I don't think so.

he might not be the world's greatest musician, but he's a spark, an inspiration, a catalyst.

Sure, but it works both ways. Lydon himself is more inspired sounding with the four guys mentioned above than anyone else.

i listened to this track a couple times the other day and thought almost the same thing. the only improvement i could imagine is to make it longer so I don't have to keep rewinding it.

but i'm just trying to look for other examples here. alfred and aaron, you're both right: every so often a group of people come together and work magic way out of proportion to any individual talents. PiL, for a couple of years, were such a band.

Alot of people seem to be assuming because he didn't play an instrument on the record, he didn't have any input as to the arrangements or music...that's not necessarily true...like the drummer in my band will point out stuff about my bass parts and vice versa, and Lydon could have been doing the same....(if anyone has actual knowledge of how PIL worked together in studio that would be cool to hear)...

That's not really what I meant to say. I've been in bands, I know how it works. The point is that the whole was much greater than the sum of its parts, etc.
Some of the Sex Pistols' songs were written completely as music before Lydon joined the band AFAIK, though.

cool..gotcha...didn't mean to simplify yr point...I would be curious to know if there's any articles about how they operated as a band...

...and Pistols songs w/o Lydon=Flamin' Groovies b-sides

I think Lydon's vocals and lyrics were much more crucial to the success of the Sex Pistols, as those song titles and lyrical punch lines were much more the bait on the hook of those guitar riffs. As a band, The Pistol's sound was not nearly as much a departure as Metal Box. PIL for a brief time had their own unique sound that didn't really tie back to anything in such a direct manner. Lydon's notoriety from the Pistols allowed PIL to make the music they did, as I doubt a group of unknowns could have gotten a big label to front cash to make such an album.

Metal Box as an instrumental record would probably have sold about 1/10th as many copies, but it would be remembered and praised, possibly more along the lines of a group like 23 Skidoo.
So true...

Offing Lennon seems fairly heroic to me.

Anyway, Custos started it.

No one knew who John Tesh was in 1980, so it would have been just another murder; though, he would get his start as one of the hosts of Entertainment Tonight in the U.S. years later. (*cue "Byooooo BYOOOOOO" sound effects*).

John Tesh gave us "Roundball Rock", and "Olympus 8008"! I can think of far worse musical crimes.

"Don't Ask Me" by PiL, for example.
I like that line about "I eat what you secrete!"; makes me wonder why Trent Reznor or Cannibal Corpse haven't done a cover version yet.

Lydon played an hour of his favourite songs on BBC6 on Friday night. it's more fun if you don't 'cheat' by looking at the tracklist first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jcrs5

hope he dies before he gets old

for some reason i thought he'd become an entomologist

Maybe because he presented this series on the Discovery Channel: http://www.johnlydon.com/megabugs.html

he looks like the kid from gummo

John's got a new autobiography coming out:

Anger is an Energy: My Life Uncensored, John Lydon's new autobiography will be published via Simon & Schuster on October 9th 2014.

I wonder if it's an update on "No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs" or an entirely new perspective?

I believe it's fresh.

Yeah, I guess the argument is that the other one had other people's input, so it's more of a biography than an autobiography. Either way, I'm in - the "No Irish" book is a phenomenal read, really humanizes John and gives a fresh view of the events that have long been mythologized.

Release Date 28 October 2016
Product code
5701491
Format
Quadruple CD Album
Label
UMC / Virgin EMI
On 28th October, PiL will reissue the seminal albums ‘Metal Box’ and ‘Album’. ‘Metal Box’ was the band’s second album, originally released on 23rd November 1979 and ‘Album’ was their 5th studio album and was originally released on 3rd February 1986, marking 2016 as its 30th anniversary.

The album’s will both be issued as 4 CD and 4 vinyl LP super-deluxe box sets, as well as digitally. The editions will include rare and previously unreleased material along with a live disc. The CD version’s feature additional tracks to the vinyl editions due to running time restrictions, however, the vinyl edition will include a download card for all tracks on the CD version’s. ‘Metal Box’ will be issued in a square metal tin (CD & LP) (the 1979 original was issued in a round metal film canister) with an embossed PiL logo. Both super-deluxe editions will include a 72 page booklet together with an exclusive poster, art-prints (LP version) and postcards (CD version).

With all lyrics written by John Lydon ‘Metal Box’ was recorded with original PiL members Keith Levene and Jah Wobble. Original drummer Jim Walker had left, to be replaced by a succession of drummers. ‘Metal Box’ came out less than a year after PiL’s debut ‘Public Image: First Issue’ yet it was nothing like its predecessor. Things had changed, and so had PiL. 

While outside pressures mounted PiL channeled their energies (negative and positive) into a record that would set them apart back in 1979, and indeed today in 2016. Whether it be John’s powerful and passionate vocals; Keith’s wailing guitar and melodic synths; Wobble’s sub-disco reggae basslines; or the crashing rhythm that holds it all together, ‘Metal Box’ has many strengths. The album was originally released as 3 x 45rpm 12” singles, housed in a metal ‘film’ canister. As made by ‘The Metal Box Company’ in London’s East End; hence the name. The deluxe edition includes rare and unreleased mixes from the recording sessions, along with B-sides and BBC sessions, plus a live recording from a now legendary unplanned show at Factory Records Russell Club in Manchester arranged on the day of a Granada TV appearance.

Tracklist:
Disc 1:
Remastered album
1. Albatross
2. Memories
3. Swan Lake (Death Disco)
4. Poptones
5. Careering
6. No Birds Do Sing
7. Graveyard
8. The Suit
9. Bad Baby
10. Socialist
11. Chant
12. Radio 4

Disc 2:
B-sides, mixes & radio sessions
1. Death Disco (7” edit)
2. Death Disco 12”
3. Half Mix / Megga Mix (b-side)
4. Death Disco - BBC TV, Top of the Pops July 12.7.72
5. Memories 12”
6. Another (b-side)
7. Poptones - BBCRadio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
8. Careering - BBC Radio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
9. Chant - BBC Radio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
10. Poptones - BBC TV, Old Grey Whistle Test 5/2/80 (audio)
11. Careering - BBC TV, Old Grey Whistle Test 5/2/80 (audio)
12. Pied Piper (rare compilation-only track)

Disc 3:
Unreleased Mixes
1. Poptones (version 3) (unreleased)
2. Swan Lake (monitor mix)
3. Albatross (monitor mix) (alternative mix)
4. Swan Lake (“master”) (alternative mix) (unreleased)
5. Unknown INST Jam 1 (“Chant”) (unreleased)
6. Unknown Jam 2 (“Megachant”) (unreleased)
7. Music from an Oven (aka Memories) (unreleased)
8. Radio 4 (“symphony suite”) (unreleased)
9. Home is Where The Heart is (original mix) (unreleased)
10. Unknown INST 2 (unreleased)

Disc 4:
Live at Manchester, Russell’s Club (The Factory) 18/6/79 (unreleased)
1. Chant
2. Swan Lake (aka Death Disco)
3. Memories
4. Public Image
5. Annalisa
6. No Birds Do Sing

Gotta love Metal Box's "melodic synths."