The Decline of the Westerberg Civilization

Right on. The song 'Let's Not Belong' is one of my favorites of the past few years.

With Westerberg, to sit through some crap to get to some good stuff is still worth it.

I've only heard a few solo things from him and they were okay. I think it's hard to beat out the shambling charm of the Replacements though.

Indeed, between the Stereo and the Mono double-disc release of a few years ago is more than 1 CD of excellent material. Haven't heard the new one, but I'd still pay $20 to see PW in an intimate setting.

He gave a fuck intermittently over the years, but never the kind of fuck that would add up to anything. His solo career on major labels was indeed marked by an honest intention to sell records, but even in that capacity he has never given way much to those around him. And that's probably why he's never been a bigger name.

He cares now only as much as he has to. He's a fulltime dad, he's in his 40s, and while he pursues this side career only because he can, it's also the only thing he knows. And I think he's come to grips with that pretty nicely. So has his core fanbase.

I agree with you right up to that last sentence. I miss not only the Replacement guy, but also the guy who sang "Silver Naked Ladies". Most Westerberg fans that I know seem to just be going through the motions along with Paul because, y'know, he's Paul Effin' Westerberg.

Honestly, if he was just some guy I saw onstage at a bar one night, I wouldn't give him a second look right now.

Has anyone seen the Come Feel me Tremble DVD? Any use? Is it available in the UK?

I managed to skip everything in between, so I'm looking forward to giving his best-of a chance and buying the major label albums. I liked "My Dad" off the last solo one. The DVD is "for fans only."

http://www.citypages.com/movies/detail.asp?MID=5103

But these Twin Tone reissues, those kind of piss me off. Why didn't they include bonus tracks when they reissued the same CDs four years ago? Why don't they reissue something that hasn't already been on CD twice? Like the Big Hits of Mid-America volumes 3 and 4 albums?

what does that woman from Zuzu's Petals he married (name escapes me, which sucks cuz she wrote a really good essay about the types of women in rock bands for the unfortunately titled Rolling Stone's Alt-Rock-A-Rama) do now?

Don't know why I'm surprised that there isn't more talk about the I Don't Cares album on here, what with everyone counting the minutes until Kanye's next steaming pile of corporate entertainment, but Wild Stabis really great. Loose like Mono / Stereo, with some great classic-sounding Westerberg tunes ("Hands Together," "Sorry For Tomorrow Night," "Back") and some raucous, almost Royal Trux-y sounding things. Could have done without the song about having to urinate, and the less said about the tune that recites the alphabet the better, but overall, I'm digging this a lot.

I'll also add that I've had a chance to read an advance of Bob Mehr's forthcoming Trouble Boys biography on the Replacements and after, and it's VERY good, seriously one of the better such efforts I've read. I think the focus and how he chose to tell the story is done very well, and it goes well beyond simple cliches.

That's good to hear. I didn't love the last Mats bio, but I'm looking forward to reading this one.

I had somewhat written off this project based on the urination song, so this is a welcome appraisal. xpost

And will def check out the Mehr!

Me too, but already much wondering about beyond-cliche approach---describe please!

shit i had no idea about the i don't cares, this sounds great. juliana hatfield!

"born for me" sounds great as a hype rock song!

Could have done without the song about having to urinate, and the less said about the tune that recites the alphabet the better

this is the same song, right

Oh yeah, it is. Ha! Definitely would have left that one off. Still, there's 16 songs on this thing--an embarrassment of riches! I'd have narrowed it down to a lean 12, but then, I think most albums are too long.

Me too, but already much wondering about beyond-cliche approach---describe please!

I won't give it too much away, but: besides the exhaustive but not exhausting detail, the many anecdotes and more, plus the direct involvement via extensive interviews of Paul and Tommy (no Chris except via past interviews; Slim's health prevented new ones IIRC), it reminded me, a bit, of the kinda underrated documentary film about the Flaming Lips The Fearless Freaks: that wasn't a documentary about a band so much as it often was about three guys in particular who happened to be in a band, and who they were. Similarly this all sets things where pretty much from the get-go it's a portrait of a core group of people who ended up in a band, all from their own backgrounds -- some okay, some terribly awful, all struggling to some degree with their own emotional burdens and issues in ways that simply weren't easily understood or expressed especially well back then. Without trying to oversimplify things, a clear, strong subtext throughout the entire book is mental health and its understanding and treatment, often allied to questions of (of course) alcohol and substance abuse and rehab, and that time helps but does not always heal. I think it's an awfully moving read all in all, the more so because not every question is fully answered, that even with the reunion, there's not really a happy ending as such. All that and there's a couple of strong zingers at the nature of the critical praise they collected, and what it signified in turn.

Wow, OK, now I'm really excited to read this. Thanks, Ned!

Yeah, likewise, thanks, Ned! Sounds much better than that one book by the head of the fan club. Is the title after the Rockpile song? Don't recall them covering it, but I can kind of imagine it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHILFDCnc4Q

There is a great Replacements documentary streaming on Amazon Prime. It's mostly talking heads, and no involvement from the band but if you think you'd be inclidned to enjoy it, you will.

Don't nec. mind talking heads, as long as Bono's not one of them, but not much music, eh? Might check it out anyway.
Thanks Ned, I'll check the book for sure, ditto the I Don't Cares.

Jessica Hopper just posted on the book on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/jesshopp/status/695702105252884480

Saw that! Already pre-ordered it and now I'm excited. Will probably cry. (Reunion shows had me more or less hugging strangers, so I'm an easy mark.)

at the reunion show some guy was so drunk he couldn't walk and he was careening out of control i tried to get out of the way but he (as if in slow motion like a car accident) knocked my newly purchased $8 stadium cup of bud light onto the ground before taking a dive into a plastic garbage can

gross

there were a lot of dudes who were trying to party like the 80s who hadn't partied like that since the 80s

I've heard people talk about bad experiences, but mine were transcendent (which I attribute to arriving nerdily early and being in the front row, beyond the hammered/ambivalent masses).

it was a good show overall!

i was sort of in the middle i guess, i thought it was a great show, some moments were pretty moving at worst it was seeing a really good paul westerberg solo band set with 2 session ringers and tommy on bass. i guess i wasn't totally transported though, and was way in the back with the rabblerousers.

i had also just seen nick cave & the bad seeds in milwaukee absolutely just destroy me and uplift me and blow me away and so the 'mat seemed a little small in comparison

That's funny; I'd seen Nick Cave some months prior, as well. Great, super-intense (and drastically different) show -- but also a reminder that if I mess with seated shows at all, I should spring for the best seats I can possibly afford.

I was pretty close

The Mehr book is really great so far. Very absorbing and well-paced. And wow, Paul's dad was a babe.

Just got to hear Wild Stab after totally forgetting about it back when it came out. It's really, really good. Sounds 85% Westerberg, 15% Hatfield, but I have to admit I'm finding this the most consistent and satisfying thing Westerberg's done since Pleased to Meet Me and Hatfield is the differential factor here, so her input must be key. Never in any of the post-Pleased to Meet Me efforts Westerberg had walked the line between deep stuff and the lighter things as well as here. I would have never guessed Westerberg still had an album like this in him.

Yeah, it's mostly great. Shame it didn't get more attention.

I can't speak about anyone else but me, but in my particular case, it came out at a time when I was still reeling from Bowie's death and really couldn't pay attention to anything else.

Listened to it a few times and liked it fine but I haven't gone back to it. Maybe I should.

for some misguided reason I watched the opening credits of Singles last night and I regret every second of it

"For me, Westerberg is one of the few artists whose mainly lame solo career has actually harmed the legacy of his former band."

wonder if this is true of bob mould too. you don't hear about husker du too much anymore. but it might just be a generational thing.

Actually, the first time I listened to it I rejected it because it sounded so shit. Production is terrible and really undermines the first impression; there's a harmonica solo in "Wear me out loud" which is top 5 among the worst sounding ones I've ever heard. But some songs kept lurking in the back of my mind and made me go back to it and I eventually got used to the production. I'm not sure if this is the best post-Replacements thing he's ever done (though some would say that wouldn't be too much of an achievement), but it's surely the one that best nails that very unique vibe the Mats had. I wonder how much of this would be due to Hatfield being such a huge Replacements fan and really knowing the core of what makes Westerberg great, kinda like Bowie and Iggy.

Sugar has a really big cult following, in certain age I'd say as big as Huskers.

LOL never saw this before - while out X-Mas shopping, Westerberg is interviewed by a local reporter who had no idea who he was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OXVQKi9O_c

That's almost a perfect illustration of something I wrote a decade ago, when I included the Replacements on a Facebook countdown of my favourite songs. Half the people reading were rock-critic and record-collector/music-obsessed friends, the other half were people I worked with.

For almost all of the people who’ve been following this countdown, the Replacements are as much a fact of life as the Beatles or Rolling Stones. It’s easy to forget that for most of the music-listening world, they’re not--not then, not now. I’m guessing that most of my teacher friends here--Anita, Jen, Karen, Tina--have never heard a Replacements song.

I think the Replacements are very important--in talking about the history of punk (or whatever you want to call it), in talking about the '80s. But I think Westerberg might have an inflated sense of their actual celebrity.

Was that shot in Minneapolis? He's probably a little more well-known there.

Fair point--and I guess the cameraman did recognize him. It just feels like his self-consciousness is a little disproportionate.

It is in Mpls, way south where I would imagine people might recognize him, expect he doesn't exactly look that much different then a lot of middle aged dudes. This looks like it was from a few yrs ago (I believe that Walgreen's is an AutoZone now) and people in Mpls "might" know the name Replacements but I can see not recognizing him.

Maybe if this were closer to Lyn-Lake or something people might say something, but y'know how Lutherans are and the Mad Ripple isn't around to be doing his whole John the Baptist shtick.

PW lives around the corner from my parents (not far from Southwest High School, natch) and if I've ever seen him at the co-op or the park I can't say I noticed him.

Most of the normie people I know who in Mpls who would roughly have been the age/temperament to have been Replacements fans would probably recognize a member of the Suburbs before the Replacements and certainly not Husker Du

some people memorize the faces of the people who make the music they like and other people don't -- i think some people are just sensitive recognizers and some people for sure 100% aren't

i am one of those people who would recognize any Husker or Replacement but i realize i am in the minority
lol at a random news person knowing who he is though

PW does mention that "Frank knows who I am", meaning Frank Vascellaro the WCCO news anchor, which I am sure is true and very funny to me (and probably UMS) cuz it is such a Mpls Mafia thing to say like "ask Rosen who I am"

"You tell Souhan his Twins column was bullshit"

his goofy response isn't "can't believe you don't know who I am," Clemenza.

used to hang out at that corner when it was a Rexall Drugs back in the day.

Now if this had been Martin Zellar? Dude would have been mobbed

That footage is at least 7-8 years old, as he mentions his (2nd) wife, and they got divorced around the time of the 'Mats reunion.

In the video description, they say it was shot on Thanksgiving Day 2010.

again lol
why is this emerging now?

his goofy response isn't "can't believe you don't know who I am"

But, as I see it anyway, there's the implication in his reaction that he's well known enough that saying his real name is redundant. Someone sticks a microphone in my face, I wouldn't go through those contortions.

Anyway, because this took place in Minneapolis, I think my original point--which grew out of this split in my own life--is probably inoperative.

Also: I'm a big fan!

honestly, i'm not sure i'd recognize him, even back in 2010 in that video, and i devoured Trouble Boys and watched all the replacements videos i could find just last year! he just kind of looks like a guy now, although he acts the rock star

The really important point here is that you can still nab one of those Hannah Montana microphones on eBay for ~$20.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/224798937422?hash=item34570f914e:g:sEYAAOSwDP5h6GuQ

I thought the reason he didn't want to say his last name was *not* because he's recognizable but more likely that once he gave his full name - "Paul Westerberg" - *then* everyone would know who is was for sure. Or at least more would.

Isn't that the same thing, though--the assumption he's known? I've gone on too long about this, I know.

He might be known by name, but he's not necessarily recognizable.

I think Josh is right about that. Easy for me to spot him now, but there was a good stretch where I was both a huge fan of their music and unlikely to recognize him, and if I heard his name, I definitely would've been like "holy shit!"

That's true now with a lot of people I listen to...I don't think I'd recognize over half of the people making up my top ten list from last year if I saw them sitting on my front step.

I can think of a ton of times when someone who's famous in one way or another, but isn't choosing to be in a public moment, would rather stay anonymous than announce themselves. The moment of turning to his friend (?) and saying "What's my last name?" felt very familiar that way.

Maybe that is endemic to experiencing fame at any level for any amount of time--that makes sense.