Who are the phonies in music or who get's praise as a great band, but you know they're full of shit?

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Seriously. Who are the bands or artists who get hailed as innovative/original, but you think are full of shit. I wanna know who they are, and why. I've seen in a thread a while back that the Clash were a bunch of hacks. Also, I've heard that the Jam were full of shit as well. I want to be in the know.

― buck van smack (Buck Van Smack), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

all bands. pretty much. except dexys.

― piscesboy, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Lenny fucking Kravitz.

― Chris O., Friday, 25 March 2005 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Velvet Underground and Sex Pistols.

And James Brown, obviously.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

sha na na

― Blossom in Paris (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Fiery Fucking Furnaces.

― PB, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought this thread would turn out funny.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Dub MDs

― Arcade Fiery Furnaces, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

all cats are gay. the cure cover band. their lol tolhurst has one chin!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

S
O
N
I
C
Y
O
U
T
H

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Joy Division/New Order
*runs away*

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like this thread :(

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

There are exactly 7 JD/NO songs I actually think are great:
Digital
Transmission
Love Will Tear Us Apart
Ceremony
Blue Monday
Bizarre Love Triangle
The Perfect Kiss

The rest doesn't really add up for me.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Hell add "Disorder", "True Faith" and "Regret" for a POX.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah to SY and JD/New Order.

― buck van smack (Buck Van Smack), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

ok then, Talking Heads.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never grasped the appeal of the Grateful Dead.

Or- rather- the idea of long hippie tripped out endless psychedelic guitar solo jams could totally work . . . . but everything I have ever actually heard *by* the Grateful Dead has sounded awfully tame and safe in comparison with the premise.

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

There is some cool space jam stuff on disc two of Europe '72, and some of their songs are nice in a mellow country rock sorta way, but otherwise yeah I don't get them either. Lee from Sonic Youth is a huge fan, btw.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.cssm.ca/twohills/phony.jpg

― Pickled Pickslide, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, I want an Eminem shirt based on that cover.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

drew, gd's appeal: they wrote great country rock with tints of blues and gospel and they frequently had heartbreakingly bittersweet lyrics.

― charleston charge (chaki), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Bob Weir's song excepted, that one before "Casey Jones," Workingman's Dead pretty much rules.

― singbad, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

John the Postman

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:19 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread doesn't have to be purely negative. I would appreciate hardcore Grateful Dead, Talking Heads and JD/NO fans giving lists of, say, 5 songs to download and really listen to in hopes of converting me/us.

I'd be willing to do this for VU(besides all the Nico sung tracks, Stephanie Says, Sister Ray, Lady Godiva's Operation, Candy Says, Pale Blue Eyes), Pistols (Bodies, No Feelings, EMI, Holidays in the Sun, Problems) and SY(Expressway to Yr Skull, Schizophrenia, Teenage Riot, Tuff Gnarl, Shadow of a Doubt)...

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

singbad -- if you mean "Easy Wind", that's Pigpen, not Weir. And yeah, I agree, that's the only real non-perfect part of Workingman's. Too much "ballin that jack" for me. See, we agree on lots of things!

I can't believe Chaki didn't mention crystalline psychedelic beauty and fleet-fingered freakouts! they had it all.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It's tough to recommend 5 Dead songs because they covered so much territory, and of course the versions vary wildly from period to period. Like I could recommend "China Cat Sunflower" but your search would probably pull up a gazillion different versions from different shows. And if I recommended one specific great show you may not be able to find it. So I dunno. Maybe I'll try to make a mix CD and put it online somewhere.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd also like to make it clear that I definitely do not even dislike JD/NO, TH, the Dead. I just don't understand the hardcore fandom they inspire, yet.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The studio version not being anywhere near the definitive version thing is a big reason a lot of people lose patience with the Jam Band genre, I'd reckon.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The Beatles.
Now seriously: Strokes, White Stripes, Sonic Youth to a certain extent, 99 per cent of all rap music (so to speak), Radiohead, Oasis and so on.

― elgood, Friday, 25 March 2005 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

99 per cent of all rap music

I just HAVE to know what the one percent you like is.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I would appreciate hardcore Grateful Dead, Talking Heads and JD/NO fans giving lists of, say, 5 songs to download and really listen to in hopes of converting me/us.

I get the impression that you've already listened to Joy Division's stuff but here are a few recommendations (that aren't on your list). They're just songs I like. I do think they were a pretty consistent band so if you love "Transmission" and "Disorder" I don't really see why you shouldn't like more:

Novelty
Warsaw
Shadowplay
New Dawn Fades
Insight
Autosuggestion
24 Hours

I don't know that there's really much to 'get'. They just had a particular (relatively simplistic) style of guitar rock from the late 70s. It sounds kind of stark and urgent and sort of pretty-ugly (sometimes leaning more to one side, sometimes more to the other). His voice has a certain quality that I want to describe as "cavernous", a cavern with sharp icicles in the case of "Atmosphere".

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

99 per cent of all rap music (so to speak) begs the question - what's the (so to speak) all about? Legitimately, I'm curious.

My vote: Phucking Phish. Blarggh.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The Dead did kinda bite. And that *other* dude from Wham was a real posuer.

― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

who do those clown robots they replaced wyld stallions with think they're fooling

― fcussen (Burger), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

stormy you make me a dead mix i be happy.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i kinda think a lot of the stuff i like is phoney though. i grew up in the 70's but first loved music at punk. do new order even know any notes outside a pentatonic?

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Public Enemy, Outkast(...), Tupac, the 1st 50 cent, "Missy" (as she`s usually called in the trendier circles) and that`s about it for now. I don`t really have lots of room in my life to actually listen to rap, it literally gives me a headache most of the times.
Just one quick anedocte: about 2hours ago I tried to listen to a live De La Soul recording from 98 or something, and I couldn`t even figure out the intro from the songs from multiple, simultaneous incoherent blabbering- hence the (so to speak), as I like my music a bit more melody-focused etc. Also there`s lots of self-promotion in rap which is just that, self-promotion. I see throught the attitude, the pointless misogyny, the violence, the ear-splitting bass etc etc etc and I find it mostly boring and uninspiring.

― elgood, Friday, 25 March 2005 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it WASN'T MADE FOR YOU SO FUCK OFF. i can't fucking fathom pygmy singing those jerks.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:47 (twenty-one years ago)

pygmies got no idea of how to make a buck. plus they got no idea of how to work a synth to make a melody. plus they don't know english. the jerks.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i heard a didjeridoo thing and man it sucked. so dispiriting. no chord changes. i mean - they're gonna release a resord it shuld at least have a chorus.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

do new order even know any notes outside a pentatonic?

There's a minor 6th in "24 Hours":) It's entirely possible that they forgot about after they turned into New Order though. Grief and all.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha, thanks sundar!

also james brown "say it loud" james, man, i'm not even black. but i got an opinion.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

pygmies got no idea of how to make a buck. plus they got no idea of how to work a synth to make a melody. plus they don't know english. the jerks
Agreed, except for that Prince guy

― elgood, Friday, 25 March 2005 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Although Bernard Sumner's singing is certainly microtonal.

2xpost

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

sundar you are a gem!

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

many x-posts
Thanks, sundar. I've made a playlist of your suggestions.
Maybe the big problem for me is I don't really care for either Ian or Barney's voice and lyrics that much. For instance, I can't stand "Atmosphere".
The main attraction for me is the music then, but besides the standouts I mention above, a lot of the songs seem like lesser versions of same stuff to me. Perhaps they were too coinsistent, and not in that Ramones/AC/DC/Motorhead sort of way that does work for me.
I tend to dislike the dirgey stuff really, I just don't find it very compelling. For instance, the only songs I like on PC&L are "Age of Consent", "The Village", "Your Silent Face" and "Leave Me Alone", but I still wouldn't rate them with the NO singles I really like.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd also be interested in Stormy's Dead mix.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:56 (twenty-one years ago)

theres this weird idea that music should be timeless and universal but based on the tastes of somethingorotherundefinedorverybanal.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

simultaneous incoherent blabbering- hence the (so to speak), as I like my music a bit more melody-focused etc.

Also there`s lots of self-promotion in rap which is just that, self-promotion. I see throught the attitude, the pointless misogyny, the violence

OMG I NEVER NOTICED ANY OF THAT. HOW INSIGHTFUL.

the ear-splitting bass

there's this knob on your stereo...

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm kind of responding to this topic as "who get's praise as a great band, but you know (think you know) they're full of shit?"

"Who are the phonies in music?" is a dead-end question. They all are by some criteria, I'm sure.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I hesitate to go on the rap stuff, since it`s been done and it`s boring, and in the end it invariably degenerates into a `you racist` vs. `I dislike that negro noise` brawl. I thought phonies were under discussion here, and I`d be hardly pressed to find more ego-driven, unjustified self-aggradizing than in the rap world. Now if anyone insists on defending the sublime lyrical depth and musical complexity of rap music, I suggest we all decide on hailing Dre as the new Brian Wilson and Eminem as the new Elvis (as he put it himself ) and leave it at that...

― elgood, Friday, 25 March 2005 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

nah, its just yr knee jerking.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

lyrical depth and musical complexity
the new Brian Wilson...the new Elvis

does not compute...I'll give BW the latter.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Is your screen name a Big Star reference?

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"Who are the phonies in music?" is a dead-end question. They all are by some criteria, I'm sure.

i dunno aaron. is ravi shankar a phoney?

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

'the ear-splitting bass'

there's this knob on your stereo...

-- AaronHz (aaronh...), March 25th, 2005.

i dunno man, maybe he listens to it on a mono tape deck?

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno aaron. is ravi shankar a phoney?

Yes. A flaming fucking phoney. See one illegitimate child, Norah Jones and probably many more. He puts himself off in interviews as a holy pure spiritual blah blah "oh I liked Jimi Hendrix until I saw him pretend to make love to his guitar, that really upset me" etc. etc. Guy's a snake in the grass, by that criteria, which is what I said.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe he listens to it on a mono tape deck

those never have much bass output to begin with, but even a mono tape deck has a volume control ;)

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

radiohead is one of the most annoying bands ever. its like the audio version of dave eggers or something. pretentious and cold with very little real innovation, full of shit, adored by every hipster who wants to think they're smart and every lonely loser who thinks music is for careful analytical listening on headphones. radiohead is one of those bands who is pretentious enough to think they have indie cred even though they make millions of dollars every year selling their (major label) pile of crap to a new generation of insecure pretentious teenagers. every year. please.

― james cooper, Friday, 25 March 2005 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"wait. you're not even playing. you're just a phony! hey everyone! this guys a phony! a big fat phony!"

This thread is silly.

― Leon Bluth (Ex Leon), Friday, 25 March 2005 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I am one of the hipsters who want to think they're smart and I hate Radiohead, so James's argument is flawed.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 March 2005 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

listening closely to music on headphones is for losers

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

well, james' argument is flawed cuz he sez radiohead are pretentious, cold, full of shit, and not innovative like those are bad things to be.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

members of radiohead often mention in interviews that they have 'cred', but in reality they have sold out! like blink 182, you see.

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Meet ONE real hipster....a real hipster would be all like "Oh man, Kid A, whatever...it's fine if you're mind is blown by Neu! ripoffs"....Radiohead is populist new wave prog. And they're really awesome.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

who do those clown robots they replaced wyld stallions with think they're fooling

yeah,, clown robots DO suck! Like in "KISS Meets The Phantom" when the androids front and play "Rip & Destroy!" the audience is so pissed they start fuckin' up the park!

The albino wherewolves were cool though.

― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i fucking can't stand interpol

― scumbrella, Friday, 25 March 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like someone to seriously defend that shit, too.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.sensorsmag.com/isensors/dec01/6/headache.jpg

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"Missy" (as she`s usually called in the trendier circles)

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Kraftwerk - to the point where I'm embarrassed for them when I hear their music.

― darin (darin), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Do Neu! sound like Kid A?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Animal Collective
the Smiths

― Ian John50n (orion), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Jimi Hendrix
Beethoven

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The Jesus & Mary Chain

― Ian John50n (orion), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Animal Collective

THANK YOU IAN. I'm really seeing a naked emperor there.

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't find JAMC as good as they're supposed to be, either.
The Smiths I love, though.

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Kraftwerk - to the point where I'm embarrassed for them when I hear their music.
-- darin

There. I really couldn't come up with anything for this thread, but that's about as good as I can do. Really though, it's not that I think they're phonies or full of shit, but I sure as fuck don't get them. I saw a video of them "performing" live, which was painful. I really need someone to explain them to me.

I can dig Harmonia though.

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you read Lester Bangs' "Kraftwerkfeature"? That might help.

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

No, thanks for the recommendation.

― sleep (sleep), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.creemmagazine.com/BeatGoesOn/Kraftwerk/Kraftwerkfeature.html

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

5 great + commercially available Grateful Dead jams that are EXACTLY as tripped out/psych-freak heavy as you ever hoped they might be:

- the white light shimmering 30 minute Dark Star on the Steppin' Out 4CD 1972 live comp

- the 40 minute That's it for the Other One on the 1972 live set called 100 Year Hall (for some reason it's slightly mis-identified as 'Cryptical Envelopment' on the actual disc)

- the whole third disc of Dick's Picks 4, recorded at a legendary run of 1970 Fillmore shows, features some of Garcia's heaviest + most blissfully soaringly beautiful ROCK gtr playing on a long sequence that includes such classic Dead freakouts as Alligator/Not Fade Away (perhaps the hottest ever version)/Caution/Feedback

talking of Feedback, the classic closing version on Live/Dead investigates space+texture+silence+noize many years before post-punk, 'post-rock' etc

the very first Mind Left Body Jam preserved on Dick's Picks 19 is just one nice example of primo mellow/spacey 73 ambient outness

dead live sets were generally split between a first half of song-based material (typically, all the country-rock stuff from the early 70s) and a second half of more out excursions - sometimes very very OUT, depending on mood/inspiration/set+setting/drugs

after abt 77 the dead's sound radically changed, as they happily embraced the twin corrosive perils of very hard drugs and very shitty sounding synths/midi interfaces and whatnot - their whole act became much less inspired, or open to chance/whim, but in their prime, say 68-78, they cld be magical

― tennessee jed, Friday, 25 March 2005 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

After those, download "Ripple" and "Truckin'"! (I like "Feedback". Don't think I know all those others, which I'll look into.)

The Mary Chain's Psychocandy is just neat because it's really basic feedback-heavy garage pop-rock run through OTT 80s echo chamber production. "Something's Wrong" is my favourite. And I like their voices. It's not something I'd recommend worrying about if it doesn't grab you immediately though. It's just an 80s pop record. After that album, I don't really get them either. The 'greatness' of The Smiths is largely in the lyrics.

And I'll just assume Silky Sensor is being sarcastic.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 March 2005 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Dick's Picks 4 Disc 3 woo hoo!!!!
16 is hott, too!!!
There's always a lot of Grateful Dead talk on ILM.

― Trip Maker (Sean Witzman), Friday, 25 March 2005 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Saw this thread title and instantly thought Radiohead. Thankfully they've already been taken to task already so no need for me to get all frothy at the mouth... And yet I still buy their stuff. I must be stuck in some adolescent loop or something. Oh and I nominate U2. Can't believe that they escaped this long without mention.

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Sunday, 27 March 2005 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

lots of alreadys there, oops

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Sunday, 27 March 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I once saw a famous rockstar leave stage and cackle maniacally about how he was a phonie and didn't mean it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 27 March 2005 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

It's weird not seeing Zappa being mentioned.

― nathalie barefoot in the head (stevie nixed), Sunday, 27 March 2005 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Anal Cunt

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 27 March 2005 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"Stupornaut is Gay"

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 27 March 2005 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

;-)

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 27 March 2005 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Ironic hate speech is fucking boring & lazy, all I'm sayin'.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 27 March 2005 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Quick! Complete the Pixies lyric!

Win tickets to a pie throwing contest with Dave Matthews as target!

Go!

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Sunday, 27 March 2005 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Radiohead is brilliant and truly great, and that has nothing to do with anything they have released after Y2K.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 27 March 2005 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Velvet Revolver. Talk about drinking the fucking Kool Aid. Ye gods.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 28 March 2005 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

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