Will M.I.A. Win Pazz & Jop?

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Because someone needed to start this thread eventually, anyway. Inspired by the "Will Kanye Win Pazz & Jop?" thread of yesteryear.

I haven't heard any M.I.A. yet, but enjoy everyone's discussions. So have at it. Or don't.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it will not.

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Or, rather, she will not.

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

WAIT 8 MONTHS

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the front runner so far

kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

chances increase exponentially if its actually a hit

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

My post was actually a note to myself, BTW.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

recent history indicates that to win P&J it would have to be an album that most critics can really get behind: a.k.a. a bloated record by black men identified with hip-hop that either criticizes and rejects hip-hop in favor of more white-identified styles or the materialism of black people and the secularism of hip-hop itself

COMMON 2005 MOTHERGRABBERS

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

My early and unfounded predictions are Broooce for Album and Amerie for Single.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget - there's new Kanye coming later this year, too!

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone wanna check how Neneh Cherry did?

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

The Amerie song is hitting too soon (and frankly, as great as it is, i dont really see it as single of the year material).

djdee (djdee2005), Monday, 28 March 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"Buffalo Stance" was #2 single of 1989 (one vote behind "Fight the Power"). Raw Like Sushi was #5 album, with barely half the votes of winner 3 Foot Hight and Rising.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Chances increase it it's actually released.

brianiac (briania), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

the idea that she will automatically not win seems reeeeal specious to me. but yeah, wait 8 months.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

it's been out for a week!

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

stats so far:

metacritic Top 30 2005 Albums Ranked By Metascore
http://www.metacritics.com/music/bests/2005.shtml

1 Arular by M.I.A.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I was being reeeeel faceeeeeetious with my last comment, but I don't think the daily reviewers are buzzing about M.I.A. the way we* are, and that's the way the wind blows

*I haven't heard it. I suspect I'd like it lots.

(haha I think DJ Martian might have just pwned me again...but most of those rankings are from The Big Magazines)

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

(miss a week of ILM and you miss a lot!)

brianiac (briania), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

miss a week of ILM nothing, just go to a store!

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

most of the daily writers I know of like the record, Matt. when the NY Times likes her as much as they do it helps set the tone.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't trust Metacritic at all. I mean, The Decemberists album is tied with M.I.A. and Buck 65 is in the top 10. That can't be right, can it?

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say daily writers don't like it, Mike, I just haven't been hearing as much OMG buzz as there was for Kanye or OutKast. I will probably be wrong so this is just an opinion.

Why did I just call you Mike?

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I have no idea, but please don't do it again--thanks!

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah...sorry!

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

no biggie, just a personal pref.

anyway, I hear more buzz on M.I.A. but all that means is I run in non-rap circles, probably

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haha I don't run in rap circles, I just run in circles

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the bigger question is, "Why did I call you ****, and then leave that in the post, and then question why I did that in the very same post?" (Actually, the bigger question is, "Why do I, David R., do that very same thing?") (The answer being, of course, "Who gives a squirt?")

I'd love to know the formula that MetaCritic uses to slap numerical ratings on Village Voice reviews.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

chances increase exponentially if its actually a hit

Yeah, remember back when Exile In Guyville was burning up the pop charts?

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 28 March 2005 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not trying to argue, mind you. I'm just saying that you totally can win this thing and only have modest sales. None of those Dylan albums were very big either, remember. Or Wilco.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Time Out of Mind debuted top 10, if I recall; so did "Love and Theft"--though neither were blockbusters, which is probably closer to your point

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I love it and it will probably score high (but, jesus, who knows and who cares at this point), but a backlash is inevitable. Ask everyone by November what they thought and some critics will inevitably treat "Arular" like "The College Dropout" or "Franz Ferdinand."

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

meaning they'll say it was the best album of the year?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

That all depends on how many other people are embracing Arular. By Nov 2004, Franz and Kanye were all over the place.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

they'll say it was overrated.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Wilco's charted too, I think.

The Decembrists album seems to have gotten good reviews in mainstream pubs and extremely good reviews in indie pubs, so that rating seems accurate. Didn't really see it on any of the ILM lists, though, which is sorta funny.

Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

just played half of it for the first time today. it's really good, might go pretty high on my list once I've heard it enough.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I just got it on Friday and it's been on heavy rotation. I don't see myself getting sick of it.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Possibly related question: #1 single? Kelly Clarkson, despite it being released in 2004?

Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, remember back when Exile In Guyville was burning up the pop charts?

I'm not trying to argue, mind you. I'm just saying that you totally can win this thing and only have modest sales. None of those Dylan albums were very big either, remember. Or Wilco.

I see white people. And Wilco and Dylan debuted top 20.

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not saying she couldn't do it, and she's a lock for top 5 unless this year proves surprisngly rich with glory. I just mean corroboration that America gives a shit will increase her luck.

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"Since U Been Gone" is 2005's "Milkshake." It's inescapable through the end of Spring, and then completely forgotten by the masses.

(although, neither were forgotten by me!)

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I still hear "Milkshake" on the radio.

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously depends on the competition, but my intuition says Arular might run into trouble for being too goofy and slight. "Goofy and slight," by the way, is not a criticism, not at all, but it's not what wins elections, either. Rock criticism doesn't yet have the maturity to allow goofy and slight to triumph (so it'd really be a mark of rock-critic maturity if Fannypack won, but that's not going to happen; it'd be a sign of P&J maturity if Mannie Fresh won). My guess is that all the nongoofy nonslight commentary on Arular might help push it over.

I'm influenced here by the fact that Arular didn't quite knock me out the way Piracy did.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"slight" is definitely gonna be the banner of the backlash, especially following 300 web posts about her politics

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Quick. Without researching, name the last 10 winners of the Pazz & Jop. Can't? Name the last 5 winners. No? I can't either. Really, who cares about the VV and their always "late-to-the-party" best of lists?

drewo (drewo), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

My guess is that "Since U Been Gone" is too resolutely nonhip to win (or to even place as high as "Toxic" or "Milkshake").

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Kanye
Outkast
Wilco
Dylan
Outkast

but I'm a freak

miccio (miccio), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Franz Ferdinand
OutKast
Missy
Missy
OutKast

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I see what you mean, Frank. "Goofy and slight" might triumph on the singles chart, where Missy had a two-year monopoly on good and slight.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 28 March 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah p&j bitching has little to do with results of p&j other than a little 'gee it's a shame it's not as fun as back when 'hit me with your rhythm stick' barely edged out 'pop musik' for best single' or 'gee thank god it's not as boring as when fucking graham parker won best album'. it's more what p&j says about the state of the industry as a whole, that: 1) it's incredibly reliant on one set of lazy, uncritical, corny tropes and that this pattern is only getting worse and 2) that it's disturbingly overwhelmingly primarily a good old boys club of straight white males, that the republican party is more diverse, and that this pattern is only getting worse.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 4 November 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

I don't know about all of that, lotta queers be reppin on P&J

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:08 (twenty years ago)

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)

let's not forget the "straight white dude who likes the occasional discreet handjob from another bro" voting bloc

gear (gear), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

the downlow bloc will push beck over the top: COUNT ON IT

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:26 (twenty years ago)

Likewise (and I think I'm repeating myself now) what particularly grates about the Important Albums winning P&J is not so much that they win, but that somehow this tends to co-incide with a contraction of the range of interesting things said about the album in question. As if its success compels the critic to transform his personal enthusiasm into an objective recital of agreed history

Ehhh, depends, Tim. I read a lot of interesting things about Love & Theft which elucidated the album and put it in context (Greil Marcus wrote a nice essay right before its release), none of which made me think it said/predicted/evoked 9-11 better than, say, that movie The Siege.

Then the next year, when Yucky Hell Dogshit won, none of the reviews seemed to encapsulate how formless and dull the album was (many of the reviews mentioned the formlessness as a virtue or, worse, saw a reflection of "post 9-11 drift" or something).

So, in the end, it all depends on how a particular critic affects you. Which is no way of formulating a cogent hermaneutics, but there it is.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:43 (twenty years ago)

i think the story surrounding YHF totally distracted from the fact that it's wilco's most boring album (a ghost is born, sans hype, is far better, summerteeth is their best, YHF is bleh)

gear (gear), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:47 (twenty years ago)

"Ehhh, depends, Tim. I read a lot of interesting things about Love & Theft which elucidated the album and put it in context (Greil Marcus wrote a nice essay right before its release), none of which made me think it said/predicted/evoked 9-11 better than, say, that movie The Siege. "

Ah, but that's probably why the fact of Love & Theft winning is strangely less annoying than Wilco, Outkast etc. despite being more predictable.

I'd hazard a guess that, to some extent, the "importance" of a new Dylan album is now so much taken for granted that it actually had the effect of freeing up a lot of critics in discussing Love & Theft (cf. Time Out Of Mind, which garnered many more annoying reviews, perhaps because critics were still in the business of shoring up Dylan's "comeback" rep).

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 4 November 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

i think the story surrounding YHF totally distracted from the fact that it's wilco's most boring album...

This is getting repeated a lot, here - see also the polling of MetaCritic YHF reviews, showing that almost every piece mentioned the label stuff.

But YHF was at that time my favourite album of 2003, and still by far my favourite Wilco record. I don't give a flying fuck about the buy-and-sell label/band-drama stuff -- it's a fascinating and evocative album for me, about which I could write hundreds of words. That said, if I was writing a feature on it for a magazine/paper ca. 2003, you bet your boots I would have mentioned the label stuff: as a music journalist writing about the band and the album, it's relevant information! For the people who haven't heard Wilco or don't know anything about the record, it might be interesting (see also 50 Cent's gun wounds, MIA and the Tamils, Kanye and the injury, The Beatles and their squabbling, Annie being from Norway, etc etc). It's unfair to Wilco (and to many of the critics who voted for them) to say that we were all blinded by that narrative.

I do think that the narrative impacted the amount of press the band received (it's easier to write a feature about an album-with-a-Big-Story than about one without), and certainly that affected the number of people who heard the record, but I think it's a correlative relationship and not a causative one.

Sufjan won't place high because he's doing 50 States -- but the 50 States project certainly brought him out onto the front pages of arts sections and made people listen (and in some cases fall in love).

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 4 November 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

>Time Out Of Mind, which garnered many more annoying reviews, perhaps because critics were still in the business of shoring up Dylan's "comeback" rep). <

And also because *it's* a way more boring album than *Love and Theft* (and possibly one of Dylan's dullest ever, though I won't pretend I've actually attempted to keep up for the past several decades.)

>it's disturbingly overwhelmingly primarily a good old boys club of straight white males, that the republican party is more diverse, and that this pattern is only getting worse.<

All three accusations are gross exagerrations (nah...they're complete horseshit), especially the last one, though if James cites the figures that convince him that the percentage of either (1) those sent ballots or (2) those actually voting who are either straight, white, or male has increased over the decades, I'll definitely listen. More likely, it fluctuates slightly from year to year, with a general upward trend among gay, non-white, and female voters both balloted and participating. (On the other hand, is the straight white male % still way higher than I wish it was? Again, obviously yes.)

xhuxk, Friday, 4 November 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

I am not a professional critic, so I don't have a dog in the professional-critic hunt.

People in general seem to like narrative and meaning. It's not a necessity, but it is often a plus. Furthermore, in daily/weekly periodicals there is also something of a bias towards "news" and "journalism". So if there are interesting news stories to be told, they are going to get told. And records are going to get reviewed the week they are released (which from the standpoint of criticism is outrageously silly, and practically guarantees low quality).

That said, personally:

(1) YHF was my favorite record of 2003, too, and I didn't give a hoot about the label story. The stream of it was probably my favorite record of 2002 -- the first time I heard it, I was floored, and I listened to it three times through straight. Without being bored at all. I like it much more than Summerteeth and Ghost, both of which I like plenty.

(2) I thought Love & Theft was boring and inconsequential, and decent only by comparison with other even more boring, inconsequential stuff Dylan has done in the last 30 years. Greil Marcus' appreciation article, while not the worst, most self-indulgent piece of writing ever, was probably the worst, most self-indulgent piece of writing about music by a writer I respect in a high-prestige publication this decade.

(3) I like big-meaning stuff, and I dislike big-meaning stuff. The same goes for fun, no-meaning pop. Sometimes one is my favorite, sometimes the other; it actually kind of depends on the music. I'm not so sure where M.I.A. fits -- sure, the story is a great hook, but the music undermines the story all the time (which is part of what's fun about it). I don't think there's a whole lot of Big Meaning in Galang, Hombre, or Amazon, all of which curl my toes, beyond their general cross-culturality, which is hardly unique. (So far this year, M.I.A. is definitely my favorite, although there have been a lot of records I have liked a lot.)

(4) While the Big Meaning critique arguably applies to YHF, or Love & Theft, or College Dropout, or even Speakerboxx/Love Below, I have a hard time seeing how it applies, say, to Stankonia, another P&J winner. People vote how they vote. I usually find P&J interesting and fun, but rarely for who "wins". It's more who pops up unexpectedly in the top tier, and who drops a few rounds below their expected draft positions. Every year, I wind up buying a record or two principally because P&J tells me I should have paid more attention to it, and usually P&J is right.

Vornado, Friday, 4 November 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

I mean, don't make the stupid assumption that everybody voting for, say, Wilco or Beck or Radiohead or Dylan or Coldplay (much less Outkast or Kanye or Scissors Sisters or Bjork or Fiona) is straight and white and male, because sometimes they're none of the above, and often they're *none* of the above. And of course, in many cases, the Poobahs themselves don't know. There are straight white males who vote overwhelmingly for hip-hop these days, too. Surprise surprise.

xp

xhuxk, Friday, 4 November 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

> sometimes they're none of the above, and often they're *none* of the above<

oops, I mean, "sometimes they're not not all of the above, and often they're *none* of the above." Or something. But this is obvious, right? Not only straight white male critics have boring tastes (and not everyone who votes for those artists I've named is boring either.)

xhuxk, Friday, 4 November 2005 14:42 (twenty years ago)

I can sympathize with the urge to decry critics' bias towards the "important". However, I think the concept of "importance" in music serves a useful function - ie., making a critics' poll something other than an exercise in solipsism and exhibitionism. Ie.., if everyone just likes what they like for personal idiosyncratic reasons that no one else can ever fully understand, then what is the point of a critics' poll? The winner is the just the album that the most critics happened to like, but if you don't like it, then why should you care? However, if there is such a thing as an "important" album then that is something that every music fan needs to care about (or at least be aware of), whether they like the album or not. Until we can find another concept to serve that function, then I don't think "importance" will ever go away.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 4 November 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

Stankonia easily fits the bill of an 'important' album, vornado - its INNOVATIVE and DOESNT SOUND LIKE ANY OTHER RAP ALBUM OUT THERE!

deej.. (deej..), Friday, 4 November 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

I kinda hate to say it, but if it makes so much sense that these sorts of albums would appeal to music critics, then why shouldn't those music critics be voting for them as their favorite albums of the year? Is the fact that they like album X because it gives off so many signifiers of importance any less valid than someone likes album Y because it gives off many signifiers of "rockin'" or album Z because it gives off so many signifiers of being "misunderstood"? The complaints here seem to indicate that we wish critics were voting for what they think other people like than what they themselves like. If the things that draw you to being a critic also draw you to albums like "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot," wouldn't it then be wrong for albums like that not to win?

That said, I think this less indicates that the criticism is invalid and more that the fight involves changing people's critical standards rather than simply forcing them to listen to other albums.

Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 4 November 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

(It also goes without saying that the signifiers need to be coupled with at least some degree of actual musical quality.)

Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 4 November 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

I have heard of this 'quality'

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 November 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

I'm addressing this issue on my blog.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 4 November 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Your blog is like the love-child of Jackie Harvey and Nick Sylvester.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 4 November 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

Ewww incest!

miccio (miccio), Friday, 4 November 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

:-D

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 November 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

Your blog is like the love-child of Jackie Harvey and Nick Sylvester.
-- jaymc (jmcunnin...), November 4th, 2005. (jaymc)

Haha! totally OTM! it is...also there's this local mpls website i'm totally ripping off too called double indemnity

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 4 November 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

"That said, I think this less indicates that the criticism is invalid and more that the fight involves changing people's critical standards rather than simply forcing them to listen to other albums. "

Yes precisely.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 5 November 2005 06:46 (twenty years ago)

This blog is officially the only blog i have ever liked.

Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Saturday, 5 November 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

xhuxkx i'm referring to the 'industry' as a whole (we've established that p&j's only useful for the individual ballots and as a snapshot of the industry), if it's not as much of a good old boys club as 20, 30 years ago (a pretty huge 'if', esp since the rockcrit industry is ALOT more 'professional' *coughcough* and dugin and obv OLDER on average now, all of which might suggest - call me crazy i know - a glass ceiling FIRMLY in place) it's at best a complete disgrace. why do the cush gigs go to yr jim derogatis and joe levys instead of kandia crazy horses or julianne shepards? how many aan members have music editors that aren't 'some white dude'? how many voice-newtimes-murdoch-timewarner-yesnetwork-randcorporation weeklies? i know none of this is your fault xhuxkx, that you've decidedly occasionally gone out of your way to open up the membership so to speak (ie. amy phillips, who i can deal with in a 'anything worth doing is worth doing badly' way plus she gave big ups to madeline so big ups to amy though i really suspect what really sealed the deal with you was her employing lazy rockcrit trop #42 - defying other boring rockcrits, DARING to suggest some old rocker isn't as good as some old rock critics suggest (without saying who or where they suggested it ie. CALLING EM OUT) a ploy you fall for too often in yr writing too to be honest, i can only think of one writer who consistently pulls it off with pinache, meltzer duh, and then cuz he actually names names/burns bridges ie. acts like he's familiar with the concept 'come correct or don't come at all'). how come the occasional piece calling out misogyny in hip-hop (or the incredibly rarer piece calling out misogyny in rock) is still a 'breath of fresh air' or can prompt a 'finally' until the next one 10000 bylines down the line? how did a supposedly 'progressive' weekly publish a review shouting down women who dared take issue with a misogynist learing daterape crunkkiller WEAKbeat snoozer? how come between a man shouting 'get over it - you feminists have no sense of humor' and women shouting 'enough! plus the beat suxx' it was the man who actually got published (and paid)? how come the two biggest buzzgetter pieces in the voice music section this year involved some white dude lashing out at women cuz they weren't staying in whatever cage he thought they should stay in (to be fair, only one of these pieces was racist)? i know none of this is your fault xhuxkx (um, cept, well those o'reilly award winners i guess) but if i can't ask the music editor of the NEW blurb happy blogsnoggin blenderiffic mergetastic voice 'WTF is up with the state of rockcrit' who can i ask (besides scott woods)?

j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 5 November 2005 08:06 (twenty years ago)

>you've decidedly occasionally gone out of your way to open up the membership<

"occasionally." right.

Singling out two atypical pieces (one of which people willfully misread, the other of which was called out by name in the Voice the very next week) really doesn't prove much. I'm glad my Voice editors in the '80s published pieces by me they disagreed with, too.

xhuxk, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

(And yes, I freely admit that I should have edited both of those pieces more, in retrospect. I probaby have too much of a tendency, as an editor, to let smart writers sink or swim; I feel more comfortable editing language and opinions, in part because I hated when editors messed with mine. And in the Ying Yang piecee, there were a couple words I *definitely* should have edited that I didn't; that probably would have prevented some misreadings. You might want to check my posts about that on the writer's blog. But it's a big section; to single out these two isolated instances is bizarre. And believe me, it's not like there weren't similar instances at said "progressive weekly" in the '70s, '80s, and '90s.)

This week's lead review, by the way:

http://villagevoice.com/music/0545,morgan,69741,22.html

xhuxk, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

more comfortable editing language THAN opinions, I mean.

xhuxk, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

i have to say, if one wishes to rail against race and gender oppression in the world of rock-crit, trying to out-PC the village voice doesn't seem the place to start

bugged out, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

how come between a man shouting 'get over it - you feminists have no sense of humor'

still willfully misreading after all these months.

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

though your overall point is very OTM

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

(That said, I do agree with a lot of what you say about the state of music criticism. And even with some of what you say about my own writing, actually.) xp

xhuxk, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

wow. i wanted to like Lil Kim's album, i liked her last album, and I thought naked truth really sucked. Crappy generic beats, little insight into her predicament, lots of tracks that are just there to fill holes in the demographic (the weed track, the sex track, etc). the source really gave it five mics???

(not that i'm attacking that review, i just think it's completely mistaken :)

bugged out, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

(ie, someone should come out for it, i'm just amazed that anyone actually managed to convince themselves to)

bugged out, Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:58 (twenty years ago)

Haha, Morgan's review reads like I only wish the Lil Kim album was. But yeah, 5 mics in the source -- I mean, after all, "hip hop under attack!!!" (props to morgan for calling out the charge as bullshit tho -- actually unsure how much guts that particular move takes these days?)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

the weirdest part about the 3 albs of 2005 thread is the giant "VOTE FOR" in the title. wtf are they voting for? people are so goddamn weird.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

haha american politics in microcosm

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

they're ignoring a minor incongruity in order to participate in a commonly understood activity. No different than telling 'Strongo Hulkington' something you want Jess to know.

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

though its also possible the thread starter is going to compile all of it. Hey, lets start a predictions thread!!! :) :) :)

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

AAAAAAAAAAA

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

commonly understood activity

let's all take one step back from the internet

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

haha

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Get in your cage!

Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Saturday, 5 November 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

OOGA OOGA OOGA CHAKA

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

And I already said above that NOBODY sounds like Stacey Q

Bardeux feat. Acacia sound like Stacey Q.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 6 November 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

will kate bush win pazz and jop?

gear (gear), Sunday, 6 November 2005 04:59 (twenty years ago)

That would be awesome.

The Brainwasher (Twilight), Sunday, 6 November 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

...serving Southern crunk with Big B. and Twista...

uhhh...

deej.. (deej..), Sunday, 6 November 2005 09:11 (twenty years ago)

(its a good review though)

deej.. (deej..), Sunday, 6 November 2005 09:11 (twenty years ago)


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