I'm cruisin' for a bruisin' BUT: with hindsight is "We're Only In It for the Money" the best album of 1968?

also hell yeah I'd take White Album and Electric Ladyland first, not to mention Wow, Wheels of Fire and Traffic!

I've never heard it but it would have to be something to top Electric Ladyland.

Do you think you have to have some basic knowledge of how to play the guitar to enjoy this album? Because I've never felt anything for it... I think I might have to start a thread about this.

And I can't answer the Jimi question as I loved that album after I started to learn guitar. Mind you, I strongly suspect I would have loved it anyway.

I'm sure I'll come around to E.L. eventually. I tend to throw something on I haven't listened to in a year and then stay up all night listening to it... It is kind of unwieldy, though. I just clicked with Exile on Main St. a month ago. Holy shite. And I'm still having trouble with London Calling. I listen to the debut probably five times more often.

Yeah it's not always a given that the supposedly GREAT albums from the canon are going to click with me. Pet Sounds took ages, then the penny dropped and I was in heaven! On the other hand, Stevie Wonder's 70's albums were an immediate thrill.

E.L. is a little unwieldly, but it's density can reward. And to return to the thread's original premise, We're Only In It For The Money is concise and joyously crisp!

Soft Machine - s/t
Os Mutantes - s/t
Incredible String Band - Hangman's Beautiful Daughter
Dr John - Gris Gris
Van Dyke Parks - Song Cycle

Other picks which may be more controversial:
Lumpy Gravy
Pink Floyd - Saucerful of Secrets
Sly and the Family Stone - Life
Blue Cheer - Vincebus Eruptum
Van Morrison - Astral Weeks
Pentangle - s/t
Sun Ra - Atlantis
Serge Gainsbourg & Brigitte Bardot - Bonnie & Clyde
Leonard Cohen - Songs of Leonard Cohen
John Fahey - The Voice Of The Turtle
Kinks - Village Green Preservation Society
Red Krayola - God Bless the Red Krayola & All Who Sail With It

More than the Zappa thing anyway. Can't believe I forgot Vincebus Eruptum! Jesus! that's only the greatest rock album of all time!

I don't know. The idea of that thing kind of bums me out. Only becuase I am SO familiar with the original album. I kind of DON'T WANT to to hear that new 3cd thing, you know? which is weird, because usually I am totally a record collecter, buy everything, kind of guy. But I have lived with the original version of that album for so long, and it seems so perfect to me, that I really have no impetus to buy that 3cd thingy.

the one I have is this one. Maybe it makes more sense at this point just to get that deluxe 3cd thing edition.. I dunno, I just honestly love that original album so much. And poortheatre, judging by your taste, which I have noticed and generally agree with and respect!, you will fucking love this album in any context in which you encounter it, for real.

"Days" is the best, most heartbreaking song ever.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=111BB8VIUBF171CFJIIXK4RGOS

http://idisk.mac.com/mysticalbeast/Public/1968.mp3

(I'm so awful at posting HTML stuff, fingers are crossed)

"Strictly Personal" is '68. I like "We're Only In It for the Money" but it tends to be overrated by people who are desperate to prove that Zappa was good once, honest. It's got about 8 minutes of crap musique concrete on it - it can't be that good.

'Electric ladyland', 'hot buttered soul' (Ike Hayes), 'astral weeks', 'beggars banquet' and 'life' are the best albums of 1968, in that order.

I could never listen to "We're Only In It For The Money" all the way through. I even swore at the CD player while pressing stop, usually a bad sign. I'll try again some year.

Beggars Banquet and White Light/White Heat are two my favorite albums ever. So yeah.

The Turtles Present The Battle Of The Bands

The White Album

Crown Of Creation

Orpheus (s/t)

and whatever album Aretha issued (I treat her as a singles artist but '68 was her most prolific year)

would be interested to know whether frank had read didion's slouching towards bethlehem prior to writing this album, seems like they're cut from similar cloth.

Talking of tape editing, the tape editing on 'Harry You're a Beast' is impeccable stuff.

Frogbs - Freak Out, Absolutely Free, Weasels, Hot Rats... And I'm by no means an expert so there's plenty I haven't heard

Yes, melodies are good and it doesn't have that annoying everyone shouting/singing at once thing that "Absolutely Free" (the album) has - and no shitty one chord jams for Zappa to solo over.

The high voices are so weird but they are part of that LA-sci-fi-b-movie thing he is working with. Sci fi - OG 60s California desert cheap scifi - is a theme throughout his career and I take the whole megaphone and sound collage style to be part of that homage. This hippie/flower power crap was a fantasy made up by marketing people, the same marketing people paying Zappa to produce a sound effects reel.

if i thank zappa for anything its for his record label.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Vq5jlzmDU

"My hair's getting really good in the back." = teenage 1970s me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf4eu5y0418

"Go to san francisco"

Aside from teh funny, aside from the spoken word and the tape editing, I really think this album has some of Frank's most indelible melodies, from jaunty/silly ("Water Turn Black") to hauntingly beautiful ("Mom and Dad".) Many of these tunes float through my head often.

― The job killing and likely illegal (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, April 14, 2015 2:36 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I definitely agree with this, and one of the big reasons why I end up recommending this as a starting point for Zappa for the uninitiated.

Zappa's best melodies were often so great that I wonder why he often settled for so much less - stuff like "Oh No", "The Orange County Lumber Truck", "Peaches en Regalia", and "Dog Breath" seems to be really missing from his later (post-1969) work

The 1971 attack that forced him to slow down for a few months produced another compositional burst that comes close to matching the original Mothers peak, imo. Inca Roads, the 2 jazz albums, RDNZL and other highlights on Läther... but yeah, his melodic/compositional highlights after that were fewer and farther between. "Night School" and "Moggio" are great... on a lot of his songs, obnoxious lyrics get in the way of a really interesting melody -- "Yo Mama" comes to mind.

fgti perfectly summarized my eternal irritation with all Zappa records a few months ago in a blazingly clear and acidic capsule

(alas i have no access to it now)

this might be my fave zappa thing ever. though not actually done by zappa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-jhfDg7vZI

I'm surprised at all the ILM love tbh

xp

Actually, come to think of it, I often find myself recommending Overnite Sensation/Apostrophe as starting points too.

Nah, 10 years after I had my FZ "phase", the 60's stuff is the only stuff I'd recommend

much prefer the Waka/Wazoo/Apostrophe period to the 60s stuff

completely forgot i started this thread; i may still stand by the initial assertion but "Best" is a weird thing to ascribe to anything

The production on this album is astounding

Just listened to this album today and I'm going to have to disagree on this one. The editing on the album is superb but it sounds like (at this stage in his career) Zappa doesn't know how to record bass and drums or else hasn't much interest in how they sound - esp. the bass, which just lies there like a dead fish. Re-recording the bass and drums was an entirely dickish move on Zappa's part of course, but I don't really believe the excuse he gave at the time about there being a technical problem with degradation of the master tape, I think he just didn't like what he heard.

btw same is largely true of "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets", but I wish he'd put a bit more effort into that album all round tbh!

Totally agreed - I always raise an eyebrow when people describe this album's production as being immaculate (even for 1968); as neat as these arrangements are you really can't hear everything, and even though I've never heard the 86 version, I can see why he decided to re-record the drums and bass

I'm assuming he was really into working on a budget. He did release a ton of music, and good recording technology was not widely used in 1968, I mean listen to "Tommy", the recording of the rhythm section is similarly underwhelming.

listening to the '86 version now, it sounds really strange, like someone's playing the Seinfeld theme over all the songs! maybe because I've listened to the original a hundred times but this sounds really bizarre to me - does it sound weird to anyone who bought this album before hearing the original?

no, it didn't, but I was blown away by the originals when I finally heard them, esp. the pitch change on "Water Turn Black"

it's definitely more than just re-recorded drums and bass, there's new stuff everywhere (or previously dropped bits that were restored), a bunch of added reverb, and some songs seem to be noticeably faster or slower

The '86 version is completely uncensored, if I recall.

I had no idea what the reversed part was on "Harry, You're a Beast" was - I thought that was totally intentional (given everything else strange going on in the album)

also holy shit @ the butchering that "Absolutely Free" gets

I mean listen to "Tommy", the recording of the rhythm section is similarly underwhelming.

Well, it isn't but that's beside the point as there was a ton of other records released in 1968 with well recorded rhythm sections!

(xp) I miss the "Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair" bit in "Mother People"!

I really think this album has some of Frank's most indelible melodies, from jaunty/silly ("Water Turn Black") to hauntingly beautiful ("Mom and Dad".) Many of these tunes float through my head often.

― The job killing and likely illegal (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, April 14, 2015 2:36 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And sometimes it's just the little segments, too, like that beautiful "All your children are poor unfortunate victims" part in "What's the Ugliest Part of Your Body." The fact that parts of "Absolutely Free" are actually quite beautiful too puts it above things like some of the psychedelic Rutles songs in my mind.

i love this album. "Concentraion Moon" is such a delight to here. it is very Devo ("American way/threatened by us/drag a few creeps/away in a bus").

the album has a very coherent theme to it. i dig the cynical take on flower power excess, the sped-up voices, the giggly subversion of Flower Power as pseudo-rebellious commodity. the sped up effect fits the very punk material, alot of it kind of proto-The Damned sarcasm anthems. the drum-and-bass speed metal (complete w screaming bloody murder backing vocals) of "Flower Punk", the cartoonishly cynical proto-Black Flag machine gun punk of "Who Needs the Peace Corps?".

"What's the Ugliest Part of Your Body" is so nice, Frank's safe space of 50s Cheez. its like a raunchy Garbage Pail Kids take on Herman's Hermits or something out of a cartoon. there is an instrumental surf guitar version of "Take Your Clothes of When You Dance" on Lumpy Gravy that is really lovely, with sort of Bossanova-era Pixies dreamy wordless vocals.

the album cut is nice but the vocals verge on turning into an Alvin and the Chimpmunks record. then again Zappa has never shied away from doing something potentially annoying on record lol.

perhaps "Who Needs the Peace Corps" is more mid-90s Fugazi

"Who cares if you're so poor you can't afford to buy a pair of Mod-A-Go-Go stretch elastic pants?" = 24 notes for 24 syllables.

the kind of bossa nova "take your clothes off when you dance" is an old recording from the studio z days - the complete take is on the "lost episodes" cd. similarly that surf guitar snippet that shows up on, i think it's somewhere on woiifm? is another studio z recording, "the heavies" by the rotations. it's a good recording, the whole thing shows up on rhino's surf box

A lot of the reference points are of the time on this record. Whether it’s Jefferson on other people (which weirdly they referenced on the first track on volunteers) or the Beatles. Cool it sounds like future bands to some of ya but this record to me has always been very of its time

*mother people

let me take a minute and tell you my plan
let me take a minute and tell who i am

Still think "Absolutely Free" is one of Zappa's greatest songs. I know it's supposed to be making fun of hippies but it's genuinely pretty in the exact way a lot of hippies were aiming for at the time.

^^

Favorite part is after the piano break: "Freedom, freedom" etc.

Yeah definitely agree frogbs. It’s my favourite Zappa track by miles and one of the few handful that captures his indignation at a hollow movement with empathy and not just sneering. His anger at the checked out parents and their lost children is inspiring. Flower power sucks!

Also a song like what’s the ugliest part of your body just feels more relevant as the years go by

Flower power was great. There were aspects of hippie culture that were horrible and Zappa was right to react against them, but overall I'm not sure in retrospect that the Mothers of Invention represented a way of life that was preferable on the whole. At least they weren't mired in drugs.

Yeah Tim not dogging on flower power, I just love that sample (is that Suzy cream cheese?) :)

Maybe it was a "piano person."

Yeah definitely agree frogbs. It’s my favourite Zappa track by miles and one of the few handful that captures his indignation at a hollow movement with empathy and not just sneering. His anger at the checked out parents and their lost children is inspiring. Flower power sucks!

― Droni Mitchell (Ross), Wednesday, 11 April 2018 03:29 (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Spot on and describes well my love of "Lonely Little Girl".

"Mom & Dad" still pretty good, almost a proto-"Ohio". he's really interrogating the inter-generational conflict here:

Ever tell your kids you're glad that they can think?
Ever say you loved 'em? Ever let 'em watch you drink?

One of these days I am going to erase all the tape in the world . . .

Tomorrow I may do it . . .

All the Frank Zappa Masters . . .

I think this might be correct, did not realize it was released in March of '68

just like the earlier "More Trouble Every Day" a lot of these songs still hold up as valid critiques of American society, the same as they did almost 60(!) years ago