Scritti Politti - Early CD

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I guess this is getting a lot of attention because they went on to become a reasonably successful band, but, really, were these guys not like somewhere down around the 107th most interesting UK post-punk band of the period? "Skank Bloc Bologna" is tied with Spizz's "Soldier Soldier" as the worst song on the early Rough Trade singles comp 'Wanna Buy a Bridge?'

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 31 March 2005 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

you're crazy!

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

This is what revivalism brings us. The thread about the Bravery and the Killers and their authenticity is funny because I guarantee in 20 years when the youngsters now are calling back on the halcyon days of listening to the Bravery, the Killers, and Bloc Party, there will suddenly surface "Early" compilations of the Bravery (who very few find at all very "important") and Dogs Die in Hot Cars, etc. Revivalism seems to re-write history and make "fun" "of the moment" bands into "important" bands.

― matt2 (matt2), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

For Matt2.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

tom delete ilx plz

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I frown askance at this thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

what is for me? I see nothing.

― matt2 (matt2), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

matt: scroll your screen so the link is near the top of the browser window, and THEN click it.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

very nice. I appreciate that.

― matt2 (matt2), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

what blount said - plus theres already good discussion of this CD on the Scritti C/D thread.

― jed_ (jed), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

[xpost]

Yeah, I'm all charm.

Really, though, matt, I think there's a whopping big difference between the groups from the post-punk-rock era (& what they have to offer), and the groups copping their moves from the groups from the post-punk-rock era (& what they have to offer).

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree. It all feels borrowed now, but I'm sure it all feeled borrowed from references that we don't think of back then too. I guess it just seems like, given time, every band that was ever an part of a chic movement is anthologized and made important. This is taking a different turn (one that has been discussed here many times), but I read an interview with Peter Hook that someone linked on here where he was interviewing Bloc Party. He said when Joy Division first getting attention that many folks said they sounded like the Doors. So if a group that is largely considered untouchable was given the same "they sound too much like..." treatment in their time, I suppose revivalism is nothing new. And neither is re-packaging. Now what was my point?

― matt2 (matt2), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim's not crazy, he's just Super-Tim:

75 unheralded post-Beatles McCartney greatz!!

7. "You Gave Me the Answer"

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

(that's not meant as a zing Tim, I love that thread in all of its Bizarro-world heartfelt intensity)

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, I take it back! They were really the 98th best band UK post-punk band of that period. And "Skank Bloc Bologna" is actually not tied with Spizz Energi's "Soldier Soldier" for worst song on that comp, it's slightly better. It's the second worst song on the comp (behind Stiff Little Fingers, Delta 5, the Slits, Essential Logic, T.V. Personalities, Swell Maps, Pop Group, Kleenex, Cabaret Voltaire, the Raincoats, Young Marble Giants, and Robert Wyatt).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my...I think they're tops. That compilation and their first two albums make me happier than anything else. Period.

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Although Lizzy Mercier Descloux gives Green a run for his money...

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I love that the review site that shall not be named gave Scritti's early stuff a 7 on the same day they gave Out Hud an 8.

― I.M. (I.M.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If that's meant to be a comparison I'm finding myself at a serious loss for following it.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(Which is just to say that the two strike me as functioning in completely different ways, ways I'm not sure have very much at all to do with one another.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, there's no comparison there at all, sorry. (especially since to my ears the Scritti is a 7 and Out Hud is an 8.)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Simon Reynolds has been chatting about it a bit on his blog as well.

― wordyrappington (wordyrappington), Thursday, 31 March 2005 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh no, they only gave it 7.1? That's crazy! I've seen a couple of blurbs praising their output to high heaven on that site, notably 4 A-Sides!

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Friday, 1 April 2005 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, at least it's a positive review and it doesn't seem like Nitsuh has any qualms with it per se, but I was seriously expecting a 9+.

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Friday, 1 April 2005 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim, I admire your ability to smoke rock. Your ability to have a clue about fuck all is sadly skewed by the aforementioned pipe-hugging. Still, at least you've heard of some bands you don't unnerstand.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Asylums In Jerusalem + Print - UK - 12" VINYL more of this title
SCRITTI POLITTI Asylums In Jerusalem (Scarce long deleted 1982 UK limited edition 12" b/w Jacques Derrida, picture sleeve + print signed by Tom, RT111T) -
More Info, Tracklisting & Image... Last Copy In Stock - usually ships within 24 hours!
£ 18.00
$ 33.12
€ 25.38

Bibbly-O-Tek - Confidence EP - UK - 12" VINYL - Promo more of this title
SCRITTI POLITTI Bibbly-O-Tek (Rare 1979 UK Rough Trade 3-track promo white-label test pressing 12" including Doubt Beat, Confidence & P.A.S., RT027) -
Tinseltown To The Boogiedown - UK - 12" VINYL - Promo more of this title
SCRITTI POLITTI Tinseltown To The Boogiedown - Variations (UK 12" promo-only dbl pack inc Variation & Instrumental versions by Psycho Les, Pete Rock, Rob Swift and Ali Shaheed, custom p/s VSTDJ1731) -
they rock

― greengirl, Friday, 1 April 2005 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, okay, I take it back! They were really the 91st best UK post-punk band! (That *STELLAR* first single of theirs is still the thirteenth best of the fourteen songs on "Wanna Buy a Bridge?', however.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

No, not a comparison. Just funny to me how casually they pass out better ratings than a 7 to mediocre indie rock, and then casually give a 7 to work that runs circles around it in terms of originality and effort.

I loved Out Hut live when I saw them around '99 or '00, they were a lot of fun. But their records have been disappointingly boring.

New post in between:

Tim, the joke isn't getting any funnier. Seriously though, I can see someone not liking them. But liking 107, 100, 90 whatever other UK post-punk bands more--do you honestly feel that way? Guess it just seems like if someone liked post-punk at all, they'd appreciate what Scritti added to the vocabulary.

― I.M. (I.M.), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure it all feeled borrowed from references that we don't think of back then too

nonsense

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Out Hud aren't indie rock, though.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:49 (twenty-one years ago)

What did they add to the vocabulary that other bands didn't?

Am I serious about the 100 bands? Probably! To all of the bands mentioned above, add PIL, Soft Boys, Desperate Bicycles, Throbbing Gristle, ATV, Door and the Window, Prefects/Nightingales, Metal Urbain, Homosexuals, etc. as bands who were better and had more personality than early S.P. (in some cases A LOT better with a lot more personality).

(Actually, I'm not sure I like the Pop Group more on the whole than early S.P., but that's just one band!)

Apart from these bands, there were tons of great records by more obscure artists as in those anthologized on hyped2death's Messthetics series. (The comps are spotty, IMO, but there are really lots of great records on them.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(Bands mentioned above who fit in the category: Delta 5, the Slits, Essential Logic, T.V. Personalities, Swell Maps, Pop Group, Kleenex, Cabaret Voltaire, the Raincoats, Young Marble Giants)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

dude if the pop group is the one out of that group you're not sure are better than early sp you double crazy.

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 1 April 2005 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Tell me about how great Blurt was while you're at it, plz.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 02:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Ferlin Husky can tell me how much I don't understand the great subtleties of these groups again.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it subtleties? I figured it was more like a category error. I'm not any more interested in pre-Songs to Remember Scritti than Green is. Course after that they changed the face of Pop at least 3 times. What did you do?

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 1 April 2005 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck you. You wouldn't know.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

What was your point, by the way? You don't even like the music, you say! And yet, what, you take great offense at me saying that the Swell Maps and the Fall and the Raincoats and a buncha other bands were a lot better? That's makes a lotta sense, bro.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Well my initial answer was snotty as fuck, true, but I'm smashed. And comparing even early Scritti to sump'n like Spizz was a piss-take. What they added to the vocabulary even at the beginnig was a Will To Pop, I reckon. I didn't say I didn't like it, just it's the least important thing they did.

But you're right, I was being a bit of a dick. As the cold harsh light of hangover sets in, I see that now. Sorry.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 1 April 2005 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually really like the first Spizz Oil EP. (Yes, more than early Scritti Politti!)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 April 2005 04:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Where's Captain Kirk?" lacks a certain amount of gravitas, to my way of thinking.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 1 April 2005 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim's pretty much on the money, I reckon.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 1 April 2005 07:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i prefer the versh of '"sweetest girl"' on 'early' but otherwise am a bit disappointed. green's slevvenote is otm. it's interesting, but mainly in an archival kind of way. i like 'skank blog' but already had that, so it's a bit of a meh.

― N_RQ, Friday, 1 April 2005 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i was actually surprised at how enjoyable this cd was! i was expecting some kind of anti-pop nightmare but it's pretty good fun, really. the 'Will To Pop' is there indeed.

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 1 April 2005 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"In and Ought the Western World" rules, my favorite song on the disc. I love the way it alternates between knotty scrabble on the first part of the verse into that dubby bass stuff.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 1 April 2005 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it needed remastering or louderizing but the bass wasn't dubby enough for me. it was kind of slight, as green said it would be.

― N_RQ, Friday, 1 April 2005 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

well, sure, it's not going to pin your ears back like any ACTUAL REAL DUB, but point being the guys were listening to that stuff and incorporated it in an interesting way.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 1 April 2005 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I just say that as someone who was

a) A Peel listener

b) A student

and

c) In a band

in 1981-82, this band and this music was tremendously important and inspiring. And it still sounds terrific.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

you can say that, but for anyone not in that (admittedly broad) demographic, it's not a really winning argument.

― N_RQ, Friday, 1 April 2005 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

All I'm saying is that 25 years later I still know all the words to Hegemony. You know, I never bought any Orange Juice records back then (or Clash records, or Gang of Four records, or...) but I did buy these Scritti singles. In retrospect I'd say they were the beginning of the postmodern folk music I still make today.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd say keep trying enrq, it took me a while to love these tracks. "Confidence" is maybe the best thing Greeen ever wrote and the more i listen to the whole CD the more it becomes "catchy" to me in a way i would never have imagined.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 1 April 2005 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

In retrospect I'd say they were the beginning of the postmodern folk music I still make today.

This is the true worth of early Scritti. It led to Momus.

― the professor, Friday, 1 April 2005 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, to be fair i have only played it once, on the bus, stuck in north london, this morning, and i am in a kind of 'crash' state. i liked this one track two tracks before 'sweetest girl'.

― N_RQ, Friday, 1 April 2005 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the true worth of early Scritti. It led to Momus.

I'm sure everyone can post their own personal reasons for why early Scritti Politti are important without accusations of narcissism. What is society but the sum of all interlocking, co-existing subjectivities?

Truth is concrete and particular, but that doesn't mean that mine, like lions after slumber, can vanquish your whole number, oh yeah.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

well said, Momus. (The old) Green would be so proud.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 1 April 2005 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the strengths of Mark 1 Scritti are all wrapped up with their weaknesses, and all wrapped up with the times. For instance, printing manufacturing expenses on your sleeve was admirably materialist -- a record is a thing in the world, it can only exist because of workers, money, companies, and "beaty groups" have a painfully complex relationship with "market forces". It was also a bit of a post-punk cliche. XTC had already done something similar with their GO2 sleeve, making a sleeve that's about sleeves. All very meta, pomo, and (at the time) trendy, and therefore a smokescreen that tries to show the danger of smokescreens. Then these songs are mostly about mixed feelings about making songs. But that's good, because Green has deep resources of disgust, and "anger is an energy", and lines like "commonsense is things just as they are" are insightful. And then there's this fruitful tension between pop and disintegration, the weird stuff happening to the structures of the songs, this equidistance between the radio and the art school seminar, between big themes sickness and sweetness. Later Green has glorious tensions going on in songs like "Wood Beez", when he makes the black girls sing "schizo" as the Fairlight whams out massive pop beats, but an increasing emphasis on "absolute" and "perfect" and "invincible" signals a worrying abandonment of these productive tensions. Its only when he disowns his sickness theme and tries to make 100% sugar (white chocolate, white powder) that Green succumbs to real sickness.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

(Michael Jackson, Green's evil twin, would also falter when he became "invincible".)

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Like I said before, the last part of "Will you be there" is way too close to "Lions after Slumber" to be coincidental...

Also, I have a copy of "How to make a record" which was Scrit 3 I believe. This was amazingly matter of fact about the process, and one line about VAT registration was something like "You only have to do this if your turnover (not your profit) exceeds £xx,000. If this happens, contact xxx and buy all your mates a drink)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 1 April 2005 10:22 (twenty-one years ago)

In My Trials
And My Tripulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow...

Trials, confessions? What did Michael mean?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

(I think the "tripulations" bit is very Green, though.)

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 1 April 2005 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

thirteen years pass...

I posted "Messthetics" on my FB page and someone I work with posted, "They lived in our co-op!" I suggested lobbying for a blue plaque saying, '"Skank Bloc Bologna" was composed here, 1978'

― Zach Same (Tom D.), Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:04 (seven years ago)

!!!

I heart this compilation beyond all rationality. Interesting to see that it was Momus--whose blog alerted me to ILM--defending this stuff most vigorously. Bless.

― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Monday, 24 September 2018 01:00 (seven years ago)

P.A.S. is so so so so so great, one of Green's most beautiful vocal melodies.

― MaresNest, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:41 (seven years ago)

This thread has just reminded me that there's a great live recording from ULU in 1979 that I should revisit.

I was never sure about the assertions in print that they made whole songs up on the spot and peppered them throughout the set, but they actually seemed to do that, you can hear the nervousness in the performance and the songs are pretty great, talk about a tightrope act, no wonder Green had a breakdown.

― MaresNest, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:47 (seven years ago)

nine months pass...

what are the P.A.s/ PAs being referred to in the song?

― Funky Isolations (jed_), Sunday, 30 June 2019 03:01 (six years ago)

"we don't practice with pas we've got alot of bills to pay, what happened once in italy will happen now in germany"

― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Sunday, 30 June 2019 03:36 (six years ago)

Vocal mic amplification.

― Mark G, Sunday, 30 June 2019 08:48 (six years ago)

PA = public address. Meant that speeches etc could be heard throughout a venue. Then became way of making sure other sound from stage I.e. music circulated around venue.

― Stevolende, Sunday, 30 June 2019 09:31 (six years ago)

Since song seems to be about rise of fascism in 20s Italy and 30s Germany I would infer title was a reference to means of communication. A synecdoche for mass control or something like that.
Bit oblique like.

― Stevolende, Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:07 (six years ago)

I think this is more like it:

"PAs" is an odd little song that veers back and forth between their problems being in a band and their worries about the neo-fascist movement.
― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 19:01 (thirteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Anyone who has ever been in a band would know all about PAs, or maybe they're called something different in the US?

― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Sunday, 30 June 2019 10:23 (six years ago)

PA equipment is expensive and heavy to lug around. New bands usually have to make a decision whether to get one of their own or hope they can play clubs / use rehearsal spaces that have their own.

― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 30 June 2019 11:10 (six years ago)

& then struggle to get the sound they want.
But as you said they are heavy things to drive around. So you need to make it to a certain point before you could actually afford to get one anyway.

& i'm still stuck with the image of a mass rally without P.A. not really being possible. Leni Reifenstahl filming a crowd who were struggling to hear what their charismatic leader was saying and so on. assumed taht Green was making an allusion to that kind of mass communication by the title.

Need to listen to the compilation through again. Got it at the time and thought a lot of it was great. Thought they were much loved by the music press of the time they were origiinally around. Did hear taht Chris Cutlker of henry cow had a very different opinion though , not sure if that immediately ended whatever relationship there was between green 7 them or just made it uncomfortable.

― Stevolende, Sunday, 30 June 2019 11:44 (six years ago)

Mark G (on the other thread) is dead right about it being jarring once you realise it is the exact same track twice edited together, apart from One Step Beyond I can't think of one other song that does this.

― MaresNest, Sunday, 30 June 2019 12:32 (six years ago)

Second part has the same backing track and lead vocal but has some different backing vocal and some dub effects - I imagine it was inspired by reggae versioning, though the differences are pretty subtle!

― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Sunday, 30 June 2019 12:49 (six years ago)

I assumed this bumped due to this find:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR34ata39OwnwfYdq-erTv1Y89p3EVecgK255DwS37wLEndzcVRFlTRRo_k&v=fn4HC2Dfm_k

And Simon Reynolds' subsequent find of a related "how to make an independent record" Scritti mini-documentary:

https://blissout.blogspot.com/2019/06/1980.html?m=1

― Soundslike, Sunday, 30 June 2019 16:06 (six years ago)

Hmm, I'll try again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR34ata39OwnwfYdq-erTv1Y89p3EVecgK255DwS37wLEndzcVRFlTRRo_k&v=fn4HC2Dfm_k

― Soundslike, Sunday, 30 June 2019 16:07 (six years ago)

It was due to that! Thanks all.

― Funky Isolations (jed_), Sunday, 30 June 2019 16:29 (six years ago)

Sorted!