Origins of Pub Rock

"Reggae was soon replaced by a new form of rock 'n' roll when a band of white skinheads called Slade started becoming popular in 1973 and introduced the skinhead world to Oi! or pub rock as it was known then. "

Yeah, right.

And do people believe that Slade "invented Oasis" *musically* (or just, you know, in that way that apparently in England the Oasis brothers were apparently advertised as "hard drinking men starting rows in the loo" even though you can't remotely hear it in their music?) Because I don't think I hear any Slade in their music either. To me Slade sound like they invented the Clash and AC/DC (and the 4 Skins and Kix and Girlschool) way more than they invented Oasis.

Uh, OK. I guess you could say the same thing about David Bowie. If you really think that Slade sounds more like Oasis than the Clash and that Oasis sounds more like Slade than the Beatles you must be listening to different Slade records than I.

Mr. Acker Bilk was some kind of Dixieland revival, wasn't he? Striped shirts and bow ties and two-step rhythms. I don't know, was there hard-bop stuff like Davis or Wayne Shorter being played in pubs? Seems like that would be the kind of jazz you'd hear--would be funny to think that people were sitting in pubs listening to re-creations of Jack Teagarden in 1970, but maybe they were.

There was a book on pub rock, I believe, called "Happy Doing What We're Doing."

Eliz. McQueen's recent album is excellent--she sings great, and has the completely correct attitude toward those songs. Good band, too.

(Also, am i wrong about blur being considered aesthetes/dilletantes? maybe; again, i don't read british music papers. but i somehow get the idea they were marketed as nice boys from the country house in the village green -- whatever that means; we don't have those here -- not bad boys from the streets. correct me if i'm wrong. at any rate, the new wavey glammy kind of blur nugget i'm thinking of would be something like "jubilee": ok, maybe closer to a fast early police song, or 999 or somebody like that, than mott? you figure it out. still more energetic and effervescent than anything i ever heard from the oasisites. and it's no mistake that in the states, where people cared about what these bands sounded like more than what they supposedly "stood for," "song no. 2" wound up as the "whoomp there it is"-style jock jam, and nothing by oasis did.) (not that i'm a big blur fan or anything; even their best-of album seems to me bloated with a lot of crap. i'm just talking about peak moments here.)

I always for some reason associate Status Quo with Slade--was that the same kind of thing, or were Status Quo more twee, like the Move or Vanda and Young or something?

Nothing 'luded' about Status Quo. You have to listen to a lot more from them, particularly from the Lancaster/Coghlan-era. If anything, for some of those albums Rossi and Parfitt were on sulphate, as they say in the UK. "Big Fat Momma" from their double live LP in '77 or '78 just shreds on rhythm guitar.

On the other hand, Wishbone Ash, a band I also like, can accurately
be described as being 'luded' next to Status Quo. Or maybe just more interested in oozing and flowing than stomping. But for the most parts of their catalogs, there is not much overlap. Wishbone Ash were a twin guitar jam band which often arranged things off folk rock-like bases. The boogies in Wishbone Ash material, in the style a Quo heavy boogie (and actually Quo had a boogie style that was completely their own, built off the rhythm sections timekeeping and the twin Telecasters of Paritt and Rossi which gave it an attack no one else duplicates), come on a small set of records, and even then do not entirely fill these albums.

Quo was/is a boogie band and a singles band. After Coghlan and Lancaster were gone, they became much more pop. Last album I have from them, 'Heavy Traffic,' it's closest thing in the US would be Tom Petty. Quo had almost no impact in the United States and many of their later records were not released here. On the other hand, they sold an astronomical number of records everywhere else in the world, seemingly. In this respect, they're sort of like Slade. Even bigger than Slade in England, even less than Slade in the States.

The DVD of Quo at some thing called the "Anniversary Waltz" is also an eye and ear-opener. It has them coming to a gig in a celebrity filled train, all these semi-famous (unknown to Americans) British geezers waxing drunkenly on the band. And then there's the gig which has them still sounding like they're playing on methamphetamine, cramming a dozen songs or so, per block, intomedleys. "Railroad," "Hold Yer Back," "Whatever You Want," "Break the Rules," lots of zooming chug.

Not everything they did for Pye was that twee, though, either. Toward the end of their run with the label they put out "Ma Kelly's Greasy Spoon," and "Dog of Two Head," the latter of which really begins to head in the no-nonsense head-down boogie direction. "Railroad" is the piledriver from it and "Something Goin' On In My Head" is also good. "Mean Girl" is another fine single from that period.

Me too. Also Magpie with Susan Stranks!

George OTM about early-boogie Quo. They were excellent up until after the Sweet Caroline/Paper Plane/Down Down era. Even the odd later track is good - Mystery Song and Rain from 'Blue for You' are ace too.

There was a good pub rock thread a while back, I'll search for it.

A good post from the music mole there.

I've been in pubs in the last 5 years which had trad jazz bands.

Too many bits and pieces here but Chucks 'whitbread bland' typo is unintentionally prescient as whitbread is a brand of beer in the UK though Noel probably drinks Southern comfort and lemonade.

If you're looking to fine Slade in Oasis check out Stay young, which is a b-side somewhere, actually has a sweaty, joyful yob vibe to it rather than the mannered formalism they often peddle.

As for Quo, twelve gold bars is on of the great singles compilations ever but are still sneered at even now, Blur of course christened Oasis, Quoais as an attack on their supposed formulaic, unimaginative output. After Coghlan and Lancaster left quality nosedived precipitiously and it would be a brave man to defend their 80's and 90's output (live, might be a different matter). Nasty country influenced soft rock.

How Brits hear Oasis and Blur (and Slade?) differently than Americans

Agreed, on stage Quo appears to be not nearly as lame as things like "Thirsty Work," "In the Army Now," and "Famous In the Last Century" made them out to be. You gotta like medleys, though. The country-licks and soft delivery are way to the front. "Heavy Traffic," however, did make an attempt to put some boot back into the compositions.

Those singalong choruses, diatonic melodies and rather loud vocals over loud guitars: A lot in common with Oasis for sure.

Slade were never as overly Beatlesque as Oasis, but there are moments. Listen to the middle-8 in "Merry Xmas Everybody", for instance: Certainly some highly Beatlesque harmonies in there.

Exactly. Although, Brit jazz from the 60's is currently quite hip with Tubby Hayes, Evan Parker, Mike Westbrook etc being more popular now than at any time since then. What was really popular was Trad jazz which was enormously popular in the early 60's with Humphrey Lyttleton, Temperance Seven, George Melly, and it still has it's adherents, even today.

again, where are all these mysterious "loud guitars" in oasis songs??

Yes we do! There are village greens all over Connecticut and Massachusetts. Or are you saying that they only produce nasty boys?

"Pictures of Matchstick Men" was not twee in its time; the guitar riff was far too piercing and the overall sound too crunching. Of course, taking out of context you can decide that "I Can See for Miles" was twee and "Get Off Of My Cloud" was pale and "Ticket to Ride" was dinky, but that just means you're listening with ears conditioned by several decades of push-button thumpery; one needs to recondition one's ears backwards to hear the crunch.

Here's a guess about pub rock: It pretended to be punk's sensible sibling, or a corrective to arena rock, but really, it was glam's timid kid brother, boys who liked their girl pop but who wanted to come off as regular boyrockers while playing it.

Mark Sinker and I had a twenty email interchange on pub rock recently; maybe Mark will want to post some of it when he's back in circulation.

-- xhuxk

"Acquiesce"
"Hello"
"Rock and Roll Star"
"Columbia"

And not only back then. You find them in more recent stuff such as "I Can See a Liar" and "The Hindu Times" too.

I certainly do hear Slade in the singalong choruses of "You Shook Me All Night Long" and "Back In Black"

Good little history lesson here:

https://pleasekillme.com/pub-rock-wilko-johnson/

> rather loud vocals over loud guitars<again, where are all these mysterious "loud guitars" in oasis songs??

Some excellent reading on this thread. I started listening to Slade when they "stormed" America, and played Midnight Special or Don Kirshner's Rock Concert or summat, and a friend of mine, half-English, and maybe a native (Dad was stationed there), said. "Those guys are never gonna make it, they're too English." Looks like he waw right. But the Clash, who of course did have US hits (ditto Slade, but only as 80s covers; another friend saw them back over here then, when they lip-synched or sang live but to a backing tape, either way didn't go too well), the Clash did seem maybe influenced image-wise: their Angels With Dirty Faces shtick went with Slade as singing chimneysweeps (maybe also pre-Village People, with the guy in the glam suit, Noddy in his own gear etc.

Slade's "Run Runaway" was a bit of a US hit, right? maybe their only one.

*was* right.
Don't remember an American hit, hope you're right!
I heard the Elizabeth McQueen covers album referenced by threadstarter, back when it first came out. Wasn't that into her presentation (seems like she's since been more effective with Asleep At The Wheel, who come to think of it are somewhat like American pub rock re their mix of western swing and other roots traditions, covers and originals, with some originals). But I was intrigued by some of McQ's pub rock selections, incl. Ducks Deluxe originals. I still want to check them out, and Kilburn High Roads too, because Ian Dury.
Graham Parker & The Rumour sound kind of post-pub; he faded away after ditching them, but I a late 70s album they made without him kept me listening.

"Post-Pub" is golden..

Interesting that this old thread was hijacked into a discussion of Slade in the first place, who were essentially glitter/arena (after the skinhead phase) and everything pub rock was supposed to be in opposition to. But as Wilko argues in that piece I linked to, there never was a definitive pub "sound" per se; it's just that the bands happen to play in pubs.

I always thought Huey Lewis's "Workin' for a Livin'" was sort of post-pub... he was in Clover, after all. When I learned they backed Elvis on My Aim is True I tracked some down and found it really, really unlikeable.

Glad I missed that, thanks for the warning.
But pub rock seems def. based on hearty bar appeal, but also they were trying to balance that with something more: not just any old covers, or any old originals; it had to all fit together in a signature sound, to develop their own following, without gettin too wierd.
Which reminds me, in the 70s Consumer Guide capsules stashed on xgau's site, he compares Duck Deluxe, at least in approach, if not actual sound, to Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen, whose covers and originals attracted quite a social mix, suits and headz and geezers and more, in early 70s Austin, even before they started having albums released (Well, starting waaay before, if you count the first decade in Ann Arbor, 'til they finally exhausted the possibilities of being professional students etc., jumped to Berkeley and became barriffic favorites there, and an opening act for the Dead, who were getting back to being more collegetown-proto-pub-rootsy themselves, esp. when not jamming)

were Men at Work or Dire Straits pub rock?

Dire straits are definitely pubrock adjacent. There are Rockpile connections there iirc?

Yes, definitely. Men At Work are from Australia, so they don't count.

Yeah okay, their second drummer (Terry Williams) was in Rockpile with Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds xp

All 70s/80s Australian bands are, by definition, pub rock, apart from Dead Can Dance.

Re: Dire Straits

Brewers Droop was a Southern English pub rock band of the early 1970s. Though they did not chart, they are notable as an early exponent of the pub rock style, as well as for their connections with Dire Straits, as both Mark Knopfler and Pick Withers played with the group for a few months in 1973.

lmao Brewers Droop is an incredible pub rock band name

oh my god i didn't know what it meant, this is even better

noun: brewers droop
inability in a man to achieve or maintain an erection as a consequence of drinking an excess of alcohol.
"rumor had it he suffered from brewer's droop"

“his brewer’s droop got him into dire straits”

All 70s/80s Australian bands are, by definition, pub rock, apart from Dead Can Dance.
Were The Go-Betweens, The Scientists, The Church, The Saints, The Birthday Party, Us Mob, No Fixed Address, Coloured Stone, Radio Birdman, Rose Tattoo, Midnight Oil pub?

I'll wait for the remix album Drewer's Broop.

hadn't encountered brwers droop before (fnarr), the cover of this comp is amazing:

https://d1e9ycqe323hkh.cloudfront.net/items/303410828798.jpg

It turns out Pick Withers played with Dave Edmunds too. It's all making sense now.

actual song titles by brewers droop:

House Party
I Can See Your Public Bar
The Way I Feel
Let's Watch T.V.
Opening Time (Beer)
Droopin'
Caught Us Doin' It
Sweet Thing
My Old Lady
Rock Steady Woman
What's The Time
Midnight Special
If You See Kay Tonight
It Ain't The Meat - It's The Motion

so much DO NOT WANT in such a small discography

Doctor Parkinson declared, "I'm not surprised to see you here. You've got smokers cough from smoking, brewer's droop from drinking beer."

had to look that lyric up (i thought it was genesis or something tbh). good spot!

lmao @ brewer's droop's dire straits pisstake cover

noteworthy new comp. cue argument about whether some of these bands are really pub rock.

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/surrender-to-the-rhythm-the-london-pub-rock-scene-of-the-seventies-various-artists-3cd-digipak/

There's a few acts that shouldn't be on there, pretty obvious who they are I'd say. I'm sure some of it is not bad, good even, but why anyone would need three CDs of this stuff I can't imagine.

This song says it all in just over 4 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NmDpBTaCVk

I love that song, was tempted to post it.

It's genius.

There's a few acts that shouldn't be on there, pretty obvious who they are I'd say.

agreed but a couple that are so out there that i feel compelled to remark -

The Jam!!!
SAHB1!!!

With so many pub rock bands of the era having not recorded, we’ve plugged the gaps with a few acts (Status Quo, Mott, SAHB, Thin Lizzy) who had an agreeably down-to-earth, spit’n’sawdust mentality even though they were too big to play the circuit. After all, pub rock is a state of mind as much as a physical location… Oh well, that sounds alright---but, if they're gonna have Mott The Hoople, and they are, I would have expected them to pick, say, "All The Way To Memphis"---fitting the roots etc. format better than "I Wish I Was Your Mother'!

Yes, that is a weird pick.

That Brewer’s Droop tracklist (from their 1972 LP, Opening Time) is just fantastic! It’s superior to any gag or parody.

What’s with this new version of “Surrender to the Rhythm”?

Here is a much older version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSlyn0WoSjc

With Brinsley on second keyboards…and Ian Gomm on bass?

New version is some kind of Elvis Costello nostalgia project but it sounds good!

https://pitchfork.com/news/elvis-costello-reunites-with-first-band-rusty-announces-debut-album/