T/S: Brian Eno vs John Cale

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― N_RQ, Wednesday, 11 May 2005 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The answer is Phil Manzanera's solo on "Gun."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Funny - that's how Eno himself regarded the situation on "Wrong Way Up." Anyway, both worked in tandem thru much of the '70s, although Cale used Eno on his two greatest solo albums ("Fear," "Slow Dazzle").

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I'd put Music For A New Society above either of these, but they are still great albums.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

ill say eno, but both are in my top 15-20 artists ever. the variety of eno's work (roxy music, fripp/eno, rock-eno, ambient-pop-eno, just-ambient-eno) vaults him ahead of cale, id say. the more i think about it, the tougher it gets to decide, of course; but yeah - "here come the warm jets" and "needles in the camel's eye" are 2 of the best songs ever. dammit, but then cale was in the VELVET UNDERGROUND!

ok - eno by a nose.

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

eno, obviously. where are any albums by cale which could match the musical miracles here come the warm jets, another green world, before and after science and music for films? not to mention the collaboration with harold budd which resulted in the celestial plateaux of mirror. and anyways i think eno was more important for the sound of the first two roxy music albums than cale was for the first two v.u. albums.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always loved both of them, and yeah, I think "Green World" is a monument and deeper than anything Cale ever did. That said, I have a real affection for the disaffected, nasty Cale stuff on "Fear," "Slow Dazzle" and "Helen of Troy." I love the way he does up that L.A. pop on songs like "Taking It All Away" and "Mr. Wilson"--such great adult entertainment. In fact, Cale's lyrics are probably even more to my taste than are Eno's; Cale seems to acknowledge the big old world of pop sensibility better than Eno does, less surrealism for its own sake, I guess is how I'd put it. And anyone who used Lowell George so well, on "Paris 1919," gets a kudos from me. I'm not a fan of Cale or Eno after around 1980, though. "Honi Soit" is an honorable later effort, and I do like scattered tracks from Cale's more recent efforts, such as the wonderful song "E Is Missing." Eno did some cool stuff on "Nerve Net" and on the Eno/Cale collab, but in general, I think both shot their shot in the '70s, as Great Pop Artists.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

eno was more important for the sound of the first two roxy music albums than cale was for the first two v.u. albums.

For me, it's exactly the opposite...

― Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

alex in mainhattan completely otm. apollo soundtracks is a celestial musical miracle, too.

― steve hise, Wednesday, 11 May 2005 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

It seems strange to set them in opposition considering how many of each other's records they've appeared on.

Titans both, and I've not heard a weak record by either, but then I've not ploughed the furrow of their post-1983 work. Actually "Wrong Way Up" didn't impress me that much, bar a few tracks. "Songs for Drella", however, is quite something.

"Honi Soit" is something that needs reissuing, along with "Music for a New Society"...

― Tom May (Tom May), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

where are any albums by cale which could match the musical miracles here come the warm jets, another green world, before and after science and music for films?

As noted previously, they're called Fear, Paris 1919, Music For a New Society, and (to a slightly lesser extent) Vintage Violence — all great-to-fucking brilliant. Hobosapiens is quite good, too — certainly better than any solo record Eno's released in ages (though a man can still hope). I would concur, however, that Cale didn't reinvent music or anything.

and anyways i think eno was more important for the sound of the first two roxy music albums than cale was for the first two v.u. albums.

Debatable. The real question is: who was the more important producer?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a great Island two-fer that packages Fear, Slow Dazzle, and Helen of Troy released sometime in 1996 called "The Island Years." IF you can get your hands on that, plus a cheap copy of "Paris 1919," that's all the Cale you'll need.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I seem to appreciate Cale more, personally.

― That's not cocaine! It's Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 12 May 2005 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I was so going to put in a vote for John Cage before I re-read the thread title.

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Thursday, 12 May 2005 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The real question is: who was the more important producer?

i dont exactly know why, but this gives me the creeps.

― peter smith (plsmith), Thursday, 12 May 2005 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

no offense meant at all, naive! i probably just cant handle the subtlety/slipperiness of a discussion of their production styles today.

― peter smith (plsmith), Thursday, 12 May 2005 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

John Cale, easy. His duds are probably dud-der but the classics are classic-er. Both get bog down in smart-aleck pointlessness, but Eno never released something as crushing as 'Music for a New Society' or as sincere as the 'Fragment for a Rainy Season' show.

― Baaderonixx (it must be a camel) (Fabfunk), Thursday, 12 May 2005 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

but eno was so much more exciting, so much more breaking new ground. i didn't even mention the phantastic ambient/sound album on land and the experimental world and sample collaboration with david byrne my life in the bush of ghosts. after what i know of cale he lost on the innovative front after his 60s work with vu and 1970s church of anthrax with terry riley. afaik he only did pretty standard rock albums from then on. music for a new society has some high points (e.g. close watch and chinese envoy) but overall it is not as consistent as the eno albums i mentioned.

btw their collab wrong way up was really quite disappointing. the only song on there which stuck in my mind was spinning away, the first one which was a typical eno tune.

the cale songs on songs for drella (a kind of mini vu reunion) were quite good. but one of my problems with cale is his voice. i can' take his slightly melodramatic gravity for the whole of one album.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Thursday, 12 May 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd rather listen to Good eno than good cale and bad eno than bad cale. You can sleep through bad eno!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 12 May 2005 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i do sort of wish that cale had maintained his sonic experimentalism more strongly than he did. by contrast, i think eno went WAY overboard with conceptualism; i wish he'd retained some more of the grit of early roxy music later in his career.

― peter smith (plsmith), Thursday, 12 May 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

lil challop: roxy music and the velvet u/g were better off without these dudes.

― meme economist (special guest stars mark bronson), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 14:17 (seventeen years ago)

They were both great with and great without.

― Reflex Gaffney (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 14:22 (seventeen years ago)

that's not how challops work.

― meme economist (special guest stars mark bronson), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 14:23 (seventeen years ago)

lil challop: roxy music and the velvet u/g were great.

^^ fail

― meme economist (special guest stars mark bronson), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 14:23 (seventeen years ago)

seven months pass...

lil challop: brian eno > roxy music, john cale > velvet underground

― iatee, Wednesday, 14 October 2009 21:18 (sixteen years ago)

Definitely agree on the latter, not so sure on the former, though Eno just *begs* to be played more often than Roxy Music.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 14 October 2009 22:14 (sixteen years ago)

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