What about his solo work? Radio KAOS, Amused to Death, and The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking being the most notable in my memory. Is he any good solo or should he have kept his neuroses to himself and raked in the benefits of going on tour with the band that could rival the Rolling Stones in possible tour revenue?
Personally, as an eigth grader, classic rock was the end all be all of music. I once made a promise to myself never to buy a record that came after 1977, with bands that started their careers before that and releasing albums after that cut off date being the only exceptions. I loved the Final Cut upon first hearing, but now I'm not too sure. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.
― Todd Burns, Thursday, 24 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I continue to hear echoes of The Final Cut in today's music:
The Flaming Lips' last two albums ("35000 Feet Of Despair" off of Zaireeka sounds like a Final Cut outtake), Grandaddy and The Black Heart Possession all seem to owe some debt to the Waters' desperate howls and the proggy verite-virtuality of the production.
However, I must close this post by stating that I haven't heard this album in about 12 years...
― http://gygax.pitas.com, Thursday, 24 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Um, isn't that about all he's released solo-wise anyway?
Most memorable moment on The Final Cut -- the jet swoop followed by the strings.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― matthew d., Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The Final Cut, with its numerous references to certain politicians of the time (Alexander Haig, anyone?) is of most interest now as a historical document of 1982-3 (Falklands, the then- still possible M.A.D.) mixed up with Waters' usual obsessions about class, alienation and his father. Yes, it's a v. personal record, and it's in that respect that it scores over e.g. "The Wall", where the protagonist is deliberately kept once removed from the author. The Wall is the greater record tho' cos it has better songs and more variety.
"...Hitch hiking" was rubbish. Not heard any other Waters solo stuff.
― Jeff W, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Alan Trewartha, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mark, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The videos for the album were great though.
― Vic Funk, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Phong Wiedermeier, Wednesday, 13 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Had a weird urge to play this today for the first time in umpteen years. I was kind of shocked by how much the opening sounds like Spiritualized. A few of the lyrics make me a little bit squirmy, but nothing's that awful. Honestly, if you changed a few words and got rid of the shouty voice, it could almost pass for something that just came out. And I still like the stream-of-consciousness bit in Not Now John.
― dlp9001, Saturday, 7 November 2009 17:36 (fourteen years ago) link
I remember being able to tolerate "Not Now John," but the rest was dreadful.
― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 7 November 2009 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link
This record is neither as great as fans make it out to be nor as horrid as its biggest detractors suggest. It being Roger Waters, virtually every song is very tuneful and the production is like DSotM on steroids the attention to detail is so precise. But it being Roger Waters, it's also less a memorial to the post-war dream than himself.
― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 7 November 2009 19:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I may be wrong, but I remember listening to a radio show back when I was a teen where Roger Waters was talking about some new breakthrough in holographic sound that Pink Floyd had made. I think it was for this album. Obviously we all know about this now, as it was such a huge success...
― dlp9001, Sunday, 8 November 2009 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Does anyone know how long he has lived in NYC? I occasionally see in the tabs that he moves in hoity-toity New York circles. I also heard that he is a regular and very good pool player--may even be on a team--in Lower Manhattan bars around City Hall like Raccoon Lodge.
― iago g., Sunday, 8 November 2009 22:26 (fourteen years ago) link
his pro fox-hunting remarks are repulsive by the way...who would've thunk?
― iago g., Sunday, 8 November 2009 22:27 (fourteen years ago) link
I may be wrong, but I remember listening to a radio show back when I was a teen where Roger Waters was talking about some new breakthrough in holographic sound that Pink Floyd had made. I think it was for this album.
The holophonics entry on Wikipedia gets into the details for this. In short it's a step up from the basic mannequin head microphone, but it also requires proper playback systems, etc.
I first listened to this album (on the day it came out too!) with headphones and the rocket attack at the beginning of "Get Your Filthy Hands..." FREAKED me out.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 8 November 2009 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Actually comes off pretty cool (well other than his mom jeans):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HX68d2s6mI
― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Friday, 17 December 2010 03:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Odd bloke.
For years, always came across as a self-aggrandising asshole, then one time (during the "making of" documentary) came across as generous regarding other people's contributions, and since then has seemed OK. (still don't like his music at all, but..)
You reckon he had some major therapy at some point?
― Mark G, Friday, 17 December 2010 11:06 (thirteen years ago) link
He did, he has said that he's much happier after many years of therapy.
― thirdalternative, Friday, 17 December 2010 13:27 (thirteen years ago) link
He's currently touring The Wall. I for one am very happy about this since I was too young to see the 80-81 Wall gigs. Apparently the stage show is at least as spectacular as those gigs, and the advances in technology since then should make it even better. Plus since The Wall was always mostly a Waters solo thing anyway, there shouldn't be much difference.
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 17 December 2010 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Plus since The Wall was always mostly a Waters solo thing anyway, there shouldn't be much difference.
No Gilmour = no interest in this at all.
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
It holds a lot more appeal to me than seeing him do all of DSOTM live. I was at the Coachella show where that was going to happen, stuck around for the first half which was mostly solo/The Wall/Final Cut material and walked over to another area for the DSOTM part.
― mh, Friday, 17 December 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
The therapy has made him less of an asshole. On the other hand, don't be surprised if his much less aggressive mood means if he ever releases some new music again, it'll sound more like Gilmour or Gilmour-Floyd than anything else. :)
― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Friday, 17 December 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
He made a deal with Gilmour for this tour, Gilmour will play guitar at one European show but it won't be announced in advance which one.
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 17 December 2010 22:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah I mentioned that on one of the other PF/Gilmour threads.
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Saturday, 18 December 2010 00:37 (thirteen years ago) link
probably easier now that he's aged better than gilmour
― mookieproof, Saturday, 18 December 2010 00:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Inspired by all the reissues, I finally got around to checking out Radio KAOS. You know, it's really not bad. If you pretend that it's by some band that has nothing to do with Pink Floyd (Men Without Hats spring to mind, and I *love* Men Without Hats) it's nice. No regrets for taking the time to hear it. Have to get to Amused now...
― dlp9001, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 03:05 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah I love that album. The concept is actually pretty cool and the music rocks. The slow songs are v. affecting too.
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Tuesday, 4 October 2011 07:32 (twelve years ago) link
TPL, possibly almost alone in the world, stands up for this album: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/pink-floyd-final-cut.html
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Wednesday, 8 January 2014 20:16 (ten years ago) link
oh i fucking love the final cut, excited to read this
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 January 2014 20:29 (ten years ago) link
Great piece Marcello.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 8 January 2014 20:42 (ten years ago) link
great write up. I think this is a woefully underrated album. I certainly prefer it to most of Division Bell and Reason and all of Water's solo output. though who was it you were referring to as the person who would eventually perform along waters in Berlin?
― akm, Wednesday, 8 January 2014 20:50 (ten years ago) link
Excellent, Marcello. I particular like the analysis of the title song. And thanks for the detail about the making of, a lot of which I didn't know. But hey, I stood up for this LP upthread.
― Jeff W, Thursday, 9 January 2014 19:06 (ten years ago) link
haven't read marcello's piece yet but I tried listening to this album again recently, made it as far as "nips" and bailed, fuck this ridiculous cunt imo
― it was a cool and cutting-edge prank in October 2013 (wins), Thursday, 9 January 2014 19:31 (ten years ago) link
Kudos - a very interesting read. The Dubliner is Sinead O'Connor?
― everything, Thursday, 9 January 2014 21:09 (ten years ago) link
yes
― balls, Friday, 10 January 2014 04:16 (ten years ago) link
wait that's like 20 seconds into the record right? (xxpost)
― "Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 12 January 2014 22:25 (ten years ago) link
Great piece, Marcello. I always thought Gilmour's whining about "if those songs weren't good enough for The Wall, they're not good enough now" was bullshit. They didn't fit The Wall's narrative, but a visionless Gilmour wouldn't have any sense of anything like that.
Also, didn't know about that Bley record, or Haden's notes. He once claimed that he was apolitical between Liberation Music Orchestra and 2005's Not In Our Name; glad to see that wasn't the case.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 12 January 2014 22:48 (ten years ago) link
I think I speak for all of us when I say that the real measure of Marcello's talent will be revealed when he does the same for The Pro's and Cons of Hitchhiking.
― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 21 February 2014 12:11 (ten years ago) link
Not a number one album, sad to say.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 21 February 2014 12:14 (ten years ago) link
True enough – tho I was only partly kidding. That record has always been utterly impenetrable to me, and your piece on TFC–like many of the TPL entries—revealed a ton to me about an album I never fully understood despite listening to it possibly hundreds of times as a teenager – for instance, I had probably heard that line in "Southampton Dock" about "the dark stain spreading between their shoulder blades" and still it never occurred to me that the woman bidding them adieu could be Thatcher herself.
Larger point being that by this point in Waters' career, his albums were all at least implicitly (and in the case of TPaCoH, explicitly) lucid dreams. His explorations of paranoia all become so kaleidoscopic, intertwined and naked that shards of his meditations on celebrity, geopolitics, xenophobia, paternal abandonment, maternal suffocation, or institutionalized cruelty resonate more for me than the narrative wholes. In that sense, as much as these records opened Waters up to criticism for being a sexist and a narcissist, they've always struck me as quite brave in their own way if not always successful.
All of which is to say, an exploration of the decidedly least beloved of his 79-84 trilogy would be of some interest. To me, anyway.
― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 21 February 2014 14:02 (ten years ago) link
I had probably heard that line in "Southampton Dock" about "the dark stain spreading between their shoulder blades" and still it never occurred to me that the woman bidding them adieu could be Thatcher herself
It's not though, is it? I'm fairly sure Thatcher wasn't down there at the dock when the task force set sail, and even if she was, she'd never have been seen dead in a summer frock. It's obviously the wife or girlfriend of a serviceman. This is a misreading.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 21 February 2014 14:27 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mViUtaV4foM
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 21 February 2014 14:33 (ten years ago) link
Now you've lost me.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 21 February 2014 18:17 (ten years ago) link
Was Radio KAOS a number one record?
― MaresNest, Friday, 21 February 2014 20:59 (ten years ago) link
No, but On An Island was.
― めんどくさい (Matt #2), Friday, 21 February 2014 21:17 (ten years ago) link
Wet Dream wasn't though.
― めんどくさい (Matt #2), Friday, 21 February 2014 21:18 (ten years ago) link
Firstly, a rainy day in early April on Southampton Dock is no place for anyone to be wearing a summer frock. But besides that, each detail in that verse could depict different people. She has a hankerchief in hand AND white knuckles grabbing a railing AND waving goodbye all at the same time. The point is that "all" agreed that war shouldn't reoccur but now here they are on the dock playing the same roles as before. Thatcher alone was not responsible for the Falklands, and this character or characters represents the position of much of the nation who were on board with it at the time.
Apologies if this is stating the obvious.
― everything, Friday, 21 February 2014 21:58 (ten years ago) link
Not obvious at all, OK that's your reading of the verse and you're entitled to it but personally I think you're over-interpreting it and it's actually a lot simpler than that, it's just a wife or girlfriend.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 21 February 2014 22:05 (ten years ago) link
It's not really my interpretation. I haven't really pondered it too much before - the general meaning of the song is very clear I think. It's a summary of what the whole album is about - the death of "the post-war dream" - in this case the dream of peace. Also, it possible these details may well be personal and specific to Roger Waters' own life because he does do that a lot in his lyrics.
― everything, Friday, 21 February 2014 22:24 (ten years ago) link
Alright, so this new album with supposedly heavy involvement from Mr. Godrich is coming right up.
I'm actually anticipating its release.
― Austin, Monday, 29 May 2017 13:38 (seven years ago) link
i'll give it a listen. I don't care for any of his solo albums (unless you count the Final Cut as a solo album) but the Last Refugee was promising
― akm, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 19:17 (seven years ago) link
If Godrich can manage to get consistently listenable vocal takes from him... always the worst of the Floyd vocalists for me, and on a bad day his voice is fucking painful to listen to.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
"the new Roger Waters album is very good" are not words I ever expected to write or say but there you go. It is very good.
― akm, Thursday, 1 June 2017 13:00 (seven years ago) link
Looks like he's backed by a Godrich compiled crew of LA's Gen X session guy best, including Roger Manning from Jellyfish, Jonathan Wilson and Joey Waronker.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 June 2017 14:50 (seven years ago) link
i like his voice and respect the legacy but don't care for much of what he's done since animals. even on that album and wish you were here, his self-righteous, accusatory bitterness threatens to become a drag. despite my teenage enthusiasm, i've come to hate most of the wall and basically all of the final cut. i half remember liking a song off the pros and cons of hitchiking.
so, how much will i love this?
― Balðy Daudrs (contenderizer), Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:03 (seven years ago) link
in the plus column, i quite like jellyfish, radiohead and joey waronker's last name.
― Balðy Daudrs (contenderizer), Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:05 (seven years ago) link
I like his dad! Actually, I love the whole Waronker story. Simon was one of the founders of Liberty records, along with Al Bennett and Theodore Keep. If those names sound familiar, that is where David Seville (aka Ross Bagdasarian) got the names for the Chipmunks, after Liberty made "Witch Doctor" a hit. Liberty went on to sign Jan and Dean and some stuff like that, while Simon's son Lenny was childhood best buds with Randy Newman (they lived in the same neighborhood and took piano lessons together). Liberty's first release was by Randy's uncle, Lionel. When Lenny took over Liberty he sometimes hired Randy and pal Van Dyke Parks for sessions, and of course he shepherded their careers when he later took over Warner Bros. (having been promoted by Mo Ostin). Ostin and Waronker made WB's reputation as an artist friendly label. And so on.
Anyway, Roger Waters.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:18 (seven years ago) link
you had me at chipmunks
― Balðy Daudrs (contenderizer), Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:52 (seven years ago) link
this album feels very much like a follow up to the Final Cut. If you liked the Final Cut, you will like that. If you hate the Final Cut, you will not like it.
― akm, Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:50 (seven years ago) link
(I love the Final Cut)
fuck, i love the final cut and roger manning!
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:51 (seven years ago) link
also, yeah, godrich got good vocal takes from waters. not sure how much futzing happened, msot of it sounds pretty clean actually. and the video of waters singing Pigs that's been circulating from the other night he def does NOT appear to be miming that, and he sounds really good, so maybe his voice has gotten stronger.
― akm, Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:00 (seven years ago) link
this might be the first roger waters solo album i listen to more than once
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 4 June 2017 18:52 (seven years ago) link
how much, um, you know, racism and that, roger waters stuff, is in this
― in a soylent whey (wins), Sunday, 4 June 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
nothing overt that i've noticed yet, but maybe repeated listens will reveal his, um, preoccupations
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 4 June 2017 19:33 (seven years ago) link
👍
― in a soylent whey (wins), Sunday, 4 June 2017 19:40 (seven years ago) link
I could kind of really use a roger water album right now where he's just like this dad who doesn't like war
No calling yoko ono a yellow bitch or whatever, or mentioning any women at all tbh
― in a soylent whey (wins), Sunday, 4 June 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
I need many more of you to listen first and report back before I venture to try tho
― in a soylent whey (wins), Sunday, 4 June 2017 19:45 (seven years ago) link
what roger waters racism?
― akm, Sunday, 4 June 2017 21:52 (seven years ago) link
"No calling yoko ono a yellow bitch"
oh, well, unfamiliar with that. there is none of that present. lyrically this is a very strong record. it's stronger lyrically than musically, but musically it's pretty good also, certainly more listenable than any of his other solo albums, almost all of which I can't bear
― akm, Sunday, 4 June 2017 21:53 (seven years ago) link
it wouldn't be a roger waters album without the bill maher-style use of inappropriate epithets, but they are kept to a minimum (i think a derogatory term for homosexuals pops up at one point and that's about it). considering how utterly gross large chunks of amused to death are i'd say that's getting off easy.
godrich has been a good influence on him. the music is mostly pastiche (and not just of Those Three albums, but also a lot of Animals, some Meddle, hell even When You're In pops up at one point), the non-infringing version of pink floyd. the ballads on this album are the best he's ever done.
as far as lyrics, he's old and pissed off and says "fuck" a whole lot, as well as "nincompoop" at least once, but while there are lyrics i could single out as bad overall the lyrics are good. the suite of the last three songs is excellent.
vocals are good for an old guy who could never sing worth a damn, whether it's just good takes or autotune makes no difference to me.
i have no reservations about calling this the best solo record of roger waters' career. whether that's enough to make it worth listening to is entirely up to you.
― Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Sunday, 4 June 2017 21:54 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, agree with rush, in that this is probably his best, most listenable solo album.
But, jeezohman, why all the swearing? It just seems excessive.
― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
And yeah, I totally get Sea Change vibes from the last suite of songs. Pretty cool.
― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Wednesday, 2 August 2017 22:53 (seven years ago) link
Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking group listening event -- who's in?
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 3 May 2020 17:43 (four years ago) link
okay, thank you everyone for showing zero interest.
thought i might actually have to listen to it again.
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Sunday, 10 May 2020 20:28 (four years ago) link
Missed this post or I'd've been in. love that album.
― the grateful dead can dance (anagram), Wednesday, 13 May 2020 13:04 (four years ago) link
yo i'm down
― budo jeru, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 13:07 (four years ago) link
I'd love to do a Pros and Cons listening event right here in 2024. For a while it was my favorite Waters solo record. Eventually I realized I hate the saxophone parts, so -- what with all the saxophone parts -- it became my least favorite Waters solo record. But I love Waters' solo career, as a whole... been a few years since I played Pros and Cons start to finish. I'm curious what I'd make of it now. Anyone want to play along?
― TheNuNuNu, Friday, 19 July 2024 15:02 (one month ago) link
hi.
― interstellar anthropologist+music philosopher, (Austin), Friday, 19 July 2024 15:34 (one month ago) link
Ah, Austin! Hoisted by your own 2020 petard after all!
― TheNuNuNu, Friday, 19 July 2024 15:56 (one month ago) link
The title track is great, the rest of the album is negligible. I've saved you 35 minutes.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 19 July 2024 16:29 (one month ago) link