Do you ever wonder if somewhere, teenagers read your reviews and laud or mock them, endlessly debating and comparing them as soon as they are published, buying records on your recommendations and try

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This thought was prompted by the Jim D thread and an email an editor forwarded me today from a reader who wanted to take me to task for an introductory sentence he apparently didn’t understand. Do people rip into YOU the way we do Klosterman, Jim DeRog, Strauss, etc etc etc?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 13 May 2005 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no one reads your reviews.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 13 May 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry should i know who you are?

Yejoon (Yejoon), Friday, 13 May 2005 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, constantly.

()ops (()()ps), Friday, 13 May 2005 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

and I wonder, where she will stay, my little runaway, my run-run-run-run, runaway (instrumental break 16 measures.......)

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Friday, 13 May 2005 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was a teenager (which seems longer and longer ago every day *sigh*), the last thing I cared about was music review blurbs. I liked to read interviews -- even with artists I'd never heard of -- and perhaps get interested that way. But I thought reviews were written by old out of touch people who didn't know shit. Generally.

Candicissima (candicissima), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Personally I get the feeling my reviews come off bland and reasonable enough that nobody bothers doing much conscious thought about them; the only responses I ever get are from surprised Ethiopians. As of today I'm mostly cool with that. I'm most proud of a line in one review that got two people to say "you're right, that's true" and two other people to say "you're right, people who think that are idiots." Someday I will be able to create a magical psychological space where people who would like the album think it's a glowing review, and people who would hate it think it's a pan.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway teenagers don't exist anymore, or if they do they're all into hardcore or something.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably not teenagers, but I had a guy email me *slandering* my review of the Red Sparowes. I had a good chuckle.

nathalie's baby (stevie nixed), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm, did you like them or not? ;-)

I have no sense of who or what my audience is until/unless contacted directly. Like the other day when the sister of one of the dudes in Souled American dropped me a line, which I thought was absolutely peachy keen!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I make it a point to tell everyone within typing & shouting distance whenever I get called a fucking idiot or a sexless sweater-loving jerk or whatever glowing epithet the kids of America can think up to make me smile. I'll have to mail these folks back & find out if they're teenagers.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, wait - the answer to your question is, "yes".

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

[David Lynch] uses a lot of antiquated phrases like "dial in." i.e., "peachy keen."
-- Amateur(ist) ([email protected]), May 13th, 2005 11:39 AM. (Amateur(ist)) (later) (link)

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

sexless sweater-loving jerk

Oh wow. That's just funny.

Candicissima (candicissima), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Hurrah for antiquarian fun!

Daver do you sex your sweaters?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Really, the readership is all dictated by the artist. If I google my name, I still find news stories I wrote about Korn, Public Enemy, Marilyn Manson and Rage Against the Machine I wrote in '99 for SonicNet. Stuff just gets out all over the Internet. I even find stuff linked to fan sites of stuff I wrote about bands when I was at the weekly in Phoenix.

Very few people, I gotta believe, read reviews just to read the reviews and ponder rockism or DeRo's triple chin.

Chris O., Friday, 13 May 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Glen or Glenda changed my life.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was a teenager I remember reading reviews sections very, very carefully (and so did my friends) - this would be from the early to mid 90's Alternative Press and Spin in particular, as well as Raygun. Late 90's I read Pitchfork and Puncture, but had much better access to music at college radio so I could make up my own mind.

The reason for this was being stuck in a fairly isolated small town where there was nothing to do, so we were obsessed with music, and record reviews were perhaps the only connection we had to a lot of it. The only other thing was late night Alternative Nation and 120 Minutes, which mostly sucked. So if something got a really great review and seemed to have an appeal to me, I might take a chance and go buy it. I probably took the Alternative Press reviews section most seriously because they covered so much. Trying to read the Spin reviews back then, I always had the sense that it wasn't for me, the writing was directed at an audience who had a history and familiarity with the music they covered going back a decade or more. There were so many in-jokes I didn't get, and it made me feel really uncool. :)

daria g (daria g), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Attention spans are short, people want pictures with novelty captions, not reviews. That's how I always justified how magazines like Mixmag could sell.

mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just happy they're readin'.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I have two teenagers. The older one (18, female) reads every review she comes across, and over time she definitely gets a sense of who particular reviewers are. With one exception (described below), I don't think she has ever bought anything based solely on a review, but they definitely influence what she checks out. She doesn't tend to buy unfamiliar new stuff until she has heard it a lot, but she buys (often used) a fair amount of classic stuff, and some of that she has decided she needs because of seeing it referred to in reviews or other criticism. She passes around the Lester Bangs book to her friends. She also publishes a zine with some friends, about 50% of the content of which is popular-music related (CD reviews, concert reviews, indie-scene lifestyle, and accounts of their attempts to "meet" indie rock stars).

My 16-year old son thinks reviews are full of shit. He may read one once in a while, but he cares only if it is about something he already likes, and the reviewer likes it, too.

The exception: Both my daughter and I regularly read glenn mcdonald's blog for years. At one point, we made a deliberate decision to purchase, sound-unheard, something obscure that glenn loved from time to time. I think one or the other of us bought six CDs on that basis, yielding four CDs we both love, none we hate, and three artists where between us we have pretty much acquired the catalogue.

When I was a teenager, I read every word Christgau and Dave Marsh wrote.

Vornado, Friday, 13 May 2005 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, ha, wait, I just remembered that some guy on some electro forum thought I was an idiot for not liking Adult. more. That guy must really, really like Adult.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 13 May 2005 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/c/cure/seventeen-seconds-faith-pornography.shtml

NABISCO I CALL YOU OUT FOR NOT SAYING THAT THESE ALBUMS COULD IMPREGNATE THE REINCARNATION OF MARY WITH OUR MOROSE SAVIOR

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

(ps I am 14)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I've gotten angry e-mails, and sparked angry letters to both the Cleveland Scene and Alternative Press, in the past. (The former was for ridiculing Dream Theater, the latter for being pretty blatantly anti-Jesus in a piece on deadly-earnest stealth-Xtian alt-rock bands.)

pdf (Phil Freeman), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Being a teenager myself, I can confirm that there are people my age who discuss reviews. Most of my friends know what rating Pitchfork gave an album they like (or don't-Hot Fuss). They read some other websites, too, and complain about Rolling Stone. It's best when the review has a rating , because then we can memorize it like people used to memorize RBIs.

WillS, Friday, 13 May 2005 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

No one gives two shits about me.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

GET ONE GIRLFRIEND.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

(That was to WillS but works pretty well to Forksclovetofu as well)

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

people who worry about these sort of things usually wind up becoming critics. so mostly i'm just worried about the future generation gunning for my pocket change.

strng hlkngtn, Friday, 13 May 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

[[[No one gives two shits about me.]]]

It's true John, I only gave one shit about you earlier today. I just coundn't muster up more.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Friday, 13 May 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

PAPPA: GET ONE FIBER

Can I assume that one shit might involve some booty bass 'ritin'?

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Future" generations? The internet has made rock critics of like 10% of people between the ages of 18 and 30.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

booty being the operative word John...

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

the latter for being pretty blatantly anti-Jesus in a piece on deadly-earnest stealth-Xtian alt-rock bands

I must read this.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i once got ripped on a Morrissey fan board for a jokey piece i wrote on the man's newfound status as a DJ. admittedly, it wasn't the most in-depth thing i've ever written, and no, i didn't really attempt to do much research for the piece. still, fun to find shit like that when you google yourself. at least someone was reading...

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I was the subject of a snotty letter to the editor about a review of the Stereophonics, the broad point being "why oh why did you send this guy to review the concert when he was obviously never going to like it etc etc". They weren't to know, I guess, that I have never gone to greater effort to be objective about a gig, or enjoyed one less

DJ Mencap0))), Friday, 13 May 2005 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah, all the mean e-mails I've ever gotten were from *old* people.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

teenagers come in all age groups. and I've had my writing mocked to my face, so hey. obviously people pick my stuff apart--even if it's one person--becuase it's there to be picked apart, y'know? somewhere, someone's gonna do that.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I had never really heard (or got) Guided By Voices, and I reviewed Earthquake Glue, gave it a reasonably good review, and all of a sudden, I'm the Google poster boy for all those unfortunate listeners/critics who'd never previously appreciated GBV and were now "saved".

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 14 May 2005 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Which is endearing, of course (lest you think I mock).

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 14 May 2005 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

mary kay place's teen son is my biggest fan. true story!

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 14 May 2005 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm 18 and read reviews well before first coming to ilXor, and my favourites were always the AMG ones by a certain Mr. Raggett. Ahem.

Another mate of mine (who frequents this site too but doesn't post much) reads reviews to and sometimes we discuss them, usually in mockery (see one Mr. Ott) or in trying to gain understanding (for example, me trying to get friend to understand Mr. Kellman's review of LCD Soundsystem, as she thought it sounded hideous from his description -- which was very positive, mind you -- of "Losing My Edge").

That's not cocaine! It's Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 14 May 2005 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

my favourites were always the AMG ones by a certain Mr. Raggett. Ahem.

Never heard of him. Andy's review of "Losing My Edge" is quite great.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I had/have a couple creepy stalker types who want/ed to kick my ass for not suckling at the pigfuck indie rock tittie or something. One of 'em wrote all this.

Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

stylus' comments section make this automatic. i've talked to several critics about this, and i think keith harris said that our site, as well as ILM, is like someone walking up to you in the mall and just starting an argument. i wish our feedback were confined to a "letters" section that would allow published responses, or simply to private emails that could be easily ignored. i'm glad we revamped the comments. it could get ugly over there.

in short, if you write for stylus, there's no wondering if people argue your points at all.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

examples?

A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

http://stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=2759

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

thank you dom. also, eminem review to thread; weezer; any big name country artist; certain hip hop titles.

it seems that artists who intend to kill us over our reviews of their electronic music usually send an email, rather than "go public".

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I should send in a controversial review to you just so I can have the pleasure of ignoring the comments.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the worst thing about the comments is that whatever cringeworthy phrase that ends up in your review - and this obvs happens all the time - becomes an object of hatred, and then every else arrives to agree with commenter number 1.

occasionally, there will be amazing, thoughtful comments that inspire discussion, but this is very rare. mostly it's like "you just panned my favorite band and this critic doesn't know shit." or we'll get "what is this, pitchfork? i'm taking your site off of my bookmarks now!"

we're hurt. really.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

also, by all means ned!

xpost

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I once reviewed a single by Fame Academy winner and current nobody David Sneddon. It was a pretty childish snotty review but it sent this one guy apeshit.

He left massive rants against me on the comments part of the review (it was for an online site), making hurtful puns on my name and then hunted out my other reviews and commented on them with things like "Terrible review!!!! No stars!!!"

When someone else reviewed a Sneddon single he went on and said "First of all congratulations! Congratulations that [Affectian] of the bitter tongue and anti Sneddon bias has not been given this one. I am relieved, though slightly disappointed I could not lock horns with him again!!" This kind of thing went on for a quite a while, I also discovered lengthy threads on David Sneddon forums where he and a bunch of pre-teen girls would dissect my prose and call me a 'w@nk3r'. It was ace.

Then I searched his name and hometown on Google and discovered that he'd recently been arrested for tickling a young girl and getting sexually aroused by it. I made a sly reference to tickling in one of my later reviews and never heard from him again. But if you're out there, Ian Johnson from Worcester, you are my favourite reader ever!

Affectian (Affectian), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I should start a Pitchforkmedia-styled ezine just so I can read 300 angry emails about me dissing Franz Ferdinand; filled with "your a fag" and such!

A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Totally guilty. I got into rock journalism at the beginning of high school and have been taking names of critics and scrutinizing reviews and lists since. I try not to get too worked up about any of it (especially to the point of sending someone a letter calling them names, that's pretty pathetic) but have been known to joke to my other mag reading friends about who I think is a washed up indie nerd, personal journalistic heroes ("How hot is dleone?!?!"), etc. I just got my first assignment from indieworkshop the other day, so hopefully all my fussing and obsessing will lead to some good.

- (smile), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

thank you dom. also, eminem review to thread; weezer; any big name country artist; certain hip hop titles.

Yeah, not to discuss Stylus on this board, but me and Josh were obviously partly trolling for comments like that so really can't complain when we get them. The response to Easton et al's country reviews, on the other hand, is heart-rendingly awful.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha that's fucking awesome (Ian's thing)

http://stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=1384

This is my favourite of the Stylus comment-box shitstorms. I find it quite interesting to see how people get personally offended by criticism of bands they really like, and end up coming out with the exact same slightly confused, defensive shit every time. All the schoolmaster style 'oh, where to start....the reviewer clearly has no grasp of...' shit makes me piss laughing as well.

I think the extent of my criticism has been somebody mildly disagreeing with me over how danceable Les Georges Leningrad are, but I've not really said anything especially controversial in my short career. Oh, and John Moore sent me a couple of e-mails after I gave him a good review.

M Philip O'Nyman (Ferg), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

also, by all means ned!

Is there some current lionized useless indie band about to release something? I'll have that. (I realize 'useless' is a flexible term.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

oh dear could i please send you something like this s1ck b33s disc! the publicist just sent it to me, already hounding for the review link and following up with some nonsense about their next release. xpost to ned.

xpost to dom: there are penalties for not kowtowing to indie narrowness, and i think anthony easton shouldered quite a bit in his debut review. but he's handled it well.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

oh dear could i please send you something like this s1ck b33s disc! the publicist just sent it to me, already hounding for the review link and following up with some nonsense about their next release. xpost to ned.

GIMME. Especially if it is truly utterly generic and has a vociferous fanbase.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm guessing there's no fanbase - if you're looking for some international flavor fervor you might try this new thing on rough trade H4l, and their self-titled record. i could send both. i'll email you momentarily xpost.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Roxor. Yeah, send both.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

hmmm.... I love Muse fans!

A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm a particular fan of the prescriptive comments readers make, resulting in a free speech debate by proxy. just like the threads on here about how one ought to review an album, what things should be stressed and what should be left out, i've always had a special brand of contempt for the folks who prefer complete stylistic homogeneity when it comes to record reviews.

for example, don't mention depeche mode in a dead meadow interview, even if the drummer brought up a mode album in the course of conversation.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

for the record, i think that these forums are great ways of democratizing criticism generally speaking. another outcropping of a conversation with keith h. was that despite the ease with which someone can hear an album, and the variety of criticism that this convenience allows (freedom from describing the music as a necessity of the review), the responses that frequently appear aren't from angry fans but from folks who still feel that "rap is crap". that variety of "comment" doesn't really do much for anyone.

and as nabisco said upthread, the internet has really opened up opportunity for publishing criticism that reaches a teeming audience, for better or worse.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, this is awesome! I can't wait to see Ned's reviews.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...
I had/have a couple creepy stalker types who want/ed to kick my ass for not suckling at the pigfuck indie rock tittie or something.

Stalker? I don't even know you, so why would I stalk you? But, hey, thanks for keeping tabs on me a full FOURS YEARS AFTER OUR LAST INTERNET EXCHANGE. (Who's the stalker here exactly?) Also, I don't listen to "indie rock," though I certainly wouldn't mind kicking your ass -- just name the time and place, tuff guy!

One of 'em wrote all this.

Shit, I've written lots more than that! Some of it was even half-decent!

Joseph Patrick Larkin (Joseph P. Larkin), Saturday, 10 June 2006 00:18 (twenty years ago)

thanks for keeping tabs on me a full FOURS YEARS AFTER OUR LAST INTERNET EXCHANGE.

Oops, Nate posted that bit about me last year, so I guess it was three years (not four) that he'd been keeping tabs on me (I'm sure he's gotten a life by now and no longer reads anything I've written in the past year...cough!). My bad, as the kids say (do the kids still say "my bad"?). I'll still kick his ass, though, that dirty complete stranger!!!

You just say when and where, pal. Don't worry, I'll bring the heat...

Joseph Patrick Larkin (Joseph P. Larkin), Saturday, 10 June 2006 00:47 (twenty years ago)

Usually, I just exclaim, "Reviewer is right on/a moron/a lunatic," depending on the case.

Once in a while, I get pissed at the artist rather than the reviewer. For instance: http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/c/capillary-action/fragments.shtml . This kid is the biggest shmuck in the world, and his band is terrible mathy metal garbage. Additionally, he posted something on his label's website the same day, referencing "constant calls to Mr. Tangari" and the desire to buy Joe "a steak dinner." I wanted to strangle him.

trees (treesessplode), Saturday, 10 June 2006 04:50 (twenty years ago)

The joy of Stylus is that they just tell you right there and then, at the bottom of your review. Oh wonder.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Saturday, 10 June 2006 05:26 (twenty years ago)

Thom Jurek called me a racist once, for slagging an album by some old blues men. And I assume that the kids who bother to read our magazine (wrongly, since it's intended to be read by drunks on public toilets, not children with bright futures) mock me mercilessly even while I try to avoid getting into pissing matches with terrible local ska bands, etc. (Once a band complained that because I had said, in a flippant and deadline-induced bit of bad writing, that they made the "baby jesus cry," they could not read the review to their grandmother, who both liked to read everything possible about the band and was a devout Christian.)

js (honestengine), Saturday, 10 June 2006 17:45 (twenty years ago)

But, hey, thanks for keeping tabs on me a full FOURS YEARS AFTER OUR LAST INTERNET EXCHANGE. (Who's the stalker here exactly?)

Having fun google searching yourself, I see.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 10 June 2006 17:48 (twenty years ago)

For instance: http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/c/capillary-action/fragments.shtml This kid is the biggest shmuck in the world, and his band is terrible mathy metal garbage.

Haha, oh man, I got put on a bill with them once in Pittsburgh. I had to go outside when they started playing as I had no earplugs and I did not deem their music worthy of going deaf for.

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Saturday, 10 June 2006 17:58 (twenty years ago)

trees, curious, how do you know the kid and why do you think he is a shmuck?

TAO (daggerlee), Saturday, 10 June 2006 22:41 (twenty years ago)


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