Has an R&B track ever actually been improved by a guest rap?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I can't think of any examples.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The demographics were improved.

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i think jay z's spot in crazy in love is pretty great, especially the chinchilla reference

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Wu in SWV's "Anything"

― LeCoq (LeCoq), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ODB, "Fantasy"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ciara - oh

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Matos OTM.

OMG.. that's like the first time I've said OTM.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Rakim, "Friends" AND "Addicted"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh oh and method man in that mary j. song

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

fabolous is good at appearing on tracks where he's the best thing on it, even tho like everybody else his r&b guest spots are his worst (has THAT ever not been the case? is another question)

― jones (actual), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

actually Mary J. is on the Meth song, not the other way around

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

and missy is a CHAMP at this, altho see above

― jones (actual), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Rakim, "Friends" AND "Addicted"

Matos otm x2 if by "Addicted" he means "Addictive"

Truth hurts, baby!

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Biggie on Total's "Can't You See"

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Kelis' "Millionaire" w/ Andre

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

haha i just remembered missy's verse on "make it hot" and i totally take it back

― jones (actual), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

DJ Quik on Tone Toni Tony's 'Lets Get Down'
not the greatest verses, but yeah it's improved.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM jones. Fabolous' verse on Lumidee's "Uh Oh" is fire.

― Roadkill Bingo (Roadkill Bingo), Friday, 13 May 2005 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"Mocedes the mellow
Quite a nice fellow
Met 3-T, hit a rhyme a cappello
They had the rhythm and I had the rhyme
So then I hitted that a-one more time
It worked out and they worked it in
Tony! Toni! Tone! has done it AGAIN!"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

and yes, I meant "Addictive"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Lil Wayne and TI improved Soldier by Destiny's Child

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ummm everything where Snoop guest stars on a Dre track...?

― Jimmy Mod, Sultan of Sexxitime (ModJ), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

No one's even said "Yeah!"?

There are tons of tracks that have "actually" been improved by a guest rap.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Missy's "One Minute Man" with Ludacris
Kelis's "Popular Thug" with Pusha T
Mya's "Best of Me (Remix)" with Jay-Z
J Lo's "I'm Real (Remix)" with Ja Rule
112's "Peaches & Cream (Remix)" with Ludacris
Christina Milian's "Dip It Low" with Fabolous
R Kelly's "Fiesta" with Jay-Z

and heaps more besides

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Beyonce - Crazy in Love

actually it almost always does, for me at least, cuz I like rap more than R&B

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

are there any that haven't been improved by a guest rap?

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I kind of like "One Thing" about the same with rappers as without.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Friday, 13 May 2005 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh oh and method man in that mary j. song

-- Fritz Wollner (fritzwollner5...), May 13th, 2005.

actually Mary J. is on the Meth song, not the other way around

-- Matos-Webster Dictionary (michaelangelomato...), May 13th, 2005.

well, he might've meant "Love @ First Sight".

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 14 May 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

wutang on jodeci's "freak'n you" remix

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 14 May 2005 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The Seed 2.0 is better than the original but that's probably due to the fact it now had a decent production.

― Cunga (Cunga), Saturday, 14 May 2005 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

biggie on the real love remix

― Sym Sym (sym), Saturday, 14 May 2005 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Matos triple OTM, due to the fact that ODB not only made the song (Fantasy) listenable, but also made the video watchable...anyone else remember the tied up clown? Best video moment ever.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 14 May 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

missy's first video appearance in Gina Thompson's "Things You Do"

it's where her once signature phrase, "Heeeheeeheeow, heeeheeeheeheow" came from.

― kevin says relax (daddy warbuxx), Saturday, 14 May 2005 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

The female rapper on No Diggity by Blackstreet...I'm too lazy to google for her name :P

― Eva van Rein (Gaia1981), Saturday, 14 May 2005 05:48 (twenty-one years ago)

'Oh' seconded, Luda is amazing on it.

Teedra Moses's '(You'll Never Find) A Better Woman' with Jadakiss
Brooke Valentine's 'Girlfight' with Big Boi

the only r&b songs I can think of off the top of my head which are better off without a guest rap are 'Dip It Low' and '1 Thing', actually.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 14 May 2005 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

PussycatDolls' Don't Cha with Busta. /joke

― nathalie's baby (stevie nixed), Saturday, 14 May 2005 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha Lex one day you'll come around to Fab-O on "Dip It Low" - he is great!

The other great Christina Milian guest rap though is Joe Budden on "Whatever You Want".

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 14 May 2005 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

It takes an incredible amount to make me come round to Fabo anywhere (though this has happened several times)!

Agreed on 'Whatever You Want' though it has just reminded me that the version of Milian's 'LOVE' sans Budden is much much better than the album version, too.

Oh and the obvious one! I would put up with guest raps on every R&B hit ever if Lumidee's 'Never Leave You' had been left alone.

Petey Pablo needs to do more R&B guest raps!

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 14 May 2005 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Redman - "Dirrty"

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 14 May 2005 10:54 (twenty-one years ago)

"Oh and the obvious one! I would put up with guest raps on every R&B hit ever if Lumidee's 'Never Leave You' had been left alone. "

Alex it is unlike you to be so off the money!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 14 May 2005 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

chaka KHAN! chaka KHAN! "I Feel For You" w/Melle Mel. Maybe the 1st?

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 14 May 2005 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

theres several R&B tracks where the rap is okay, or doesnt make you cringe or doesnt feel out of place, but i dont think theres ever been a song where i think 'wow, this song really just wouldnt be anywhere near as good without that guest verse!'

not even that jodeci remix with raekwon and ghostface on it.

― blahbarian, Saturday, 14 May 2005 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Salt n' Pepa - Shoop!

― Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I suppose it's not really an r&b song, though.

― Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim, I love 'Never Leave You' partly because it sounds like Lumidee's singing to herself in her bedroom, which is out of bounds for Fabo!

i dont think theres ever been a song where i think 'wow, this song really just wouldnt be anywhere near as good without that guest verse!

well most R&B tunes with guest raps are tight to begin with, but Ludacris in particular makes them even better.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Despite what a whole bunch of people with broken ears think, I say that Fabolous's guest rap on 'Get Right' makes a good song great.

I also agree with all positive mentions of Milian above.

― Affectian (Affectian), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex I was thinking of Busta on the Lumidee track myself.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

He's better than Fabo but STILL, any guest rap would take away the singing-to-herself quality about the song.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 14 May 2005 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

would it be purist of me to say i wish there were never any guest raps on any R&B songs ever. bear in mind i am listening to lovers and friends which gets fucked over by lil jon and luda and that i also think usher's yeah would have been far far far better simply as a beat for ludacris to destroy everyone whos ever rapped with all on his own, without some whiny vocally weightless R&B superstar on it.

― blahbarian, Saturday, 14 May 2005 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"Lovers and Friends" would be so boring without Ludacris and Lil Jon!

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

well it wouldnt be as funny, but its not as good as any of the previous ballads on lil jon's albums. but with luda and jon on there acting like idiots, it just becomes a joke, when it could have been a good earnest R&B ballad.

― blahbarian, Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

The female rapper on No Diggity by Blackstreet...I'm too lazy to google for her name :P

Wasn't that Queen Pen?

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't understand this thread ... almost all the guest raps named are good, but are they really improving the track? To improve the track, doesn't the guest rap have to be the best vocal in the song? You're telling me that Luda's rap in "Oh" is better than any of Ciara's vocals on that track? Remember, that INCLUDES the chorus -- Luda's rap is better than the chorus?? No way.

"Yeah" is the perfect example ... Usher's vocals are the most missable parts on the song, and the chorus is basically just the siren riff.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

actually luda IS the best part of "oh" because it sounds like he is saying "and i keep the penis cleanest" though i know of course he is not

― strng hlkngtn, Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how "improving" the track = "being better than anything on" the track.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Jody Watley featuring Eric B. & Rakim

God, I loved that single.

― nathalie's baby (stevie nixed), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

good = pizza
improved = pizza w/sausage
etc.

― strng hlkngtn, Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how "improving" the track = "being better than anything on" the track.

OK, that doesn't *necessarily* have to be true, but when asking the question "does this rap improve the track?", isn't the first question you ask yourself, at the very least, "is this rap's quality up there with the things I like best about this song?".

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 14 May 2005 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

basically, i dont think rappers were EVER drafted on an R&B song to boost it's musical merit, its always been in the interest of marketing, business, cred, or some other annoying industry fuckerie. i would be happy if rappers were banned for ever from r&b records.

― blahbarian, Saturday, 14 May 2005 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, that's really crazy. anyways, i like "oops oh my" better w/o the guest rap. i think my favorite guest rap ever is jay-z's verse on that mya song (can't remember the name - the one where they're wearing all the north carolina gear in the video)

― dave k, Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, and that 112 song with biggie on it - "only you?" - god that song is awesome

― dave k, Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

blahbarian, that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

1. How do you know

2. Why does it matter.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

also, i thought luda was saying "i keep the penis cleanest" on "oh" - what is he actually saying?

― dave k, Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Ciara f/ Petey Pablo - "Goodies" - which I guess is stretching "R&B track" but that is a Ciara song.

Lil' Wayne makes "Soldier," the TI verse is OK but the song minus Lil' Wayne would be tremendously boring.

the new Tweet single is mediocre normally but greatly improved on the remix w/ 50.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

This was my thought when I started the thread. Not so much the marketing thing, but the stab for "credibility". The adding of a guest rap makes music a lot more palatable for critics/males, no?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

You could make just as "strong" an argument that Ludacris et al are put on for the ladies benefit.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Go on...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I'm not sure that whoever was in charge of deciding how "Oh" was released was thinking of critics when s/he invited ludacris to spit on the track.

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm also not sure how "men/critics like rappers, therefore r&b tracks have never actually been improved by guest rappers" connection work.s

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

They're two different arguments, definitely. I don't have any answers, that's why I started a deliberately vague thread. I'm hoping to make a conclusion after reading the discussions on here.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 May 2005 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

actually luda IS the best part of "oh" because it sounds like he is saying "and i keep the penis cleanest" though i know of course he is not

haha I willfully mishear it as that too. i've never been much of a luda fan, but "Oh" forced me to appreciate him, if only showing that he's more versatile than I thought, ie doesn't end every line with that lowered-tone, heavy emphasis thing.

― ()ops (()()ps), Saturday, 14 May 2005 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

The "they do it for critics" line is obviously way off base - it's only been in the last four years or so that critics as a whole have started to like the hip hop/r&b crossover interzone. Prior to that it was pretty much canon law that the co-mingling of the two was mutually deleterious.

I'll explain why I like Fabo on "Dip It Low" - up to that point the song is so light and breathy, so much effervescent tingly sparkles (Christina's got one of the higher voices in mainstream R&B, at times reminiscent of Mya for me), and then when Fabolous's rap starts the Oriental tinkles cut out and all you get are these surprisingly rough-sounding-in-isolation bass grunts over the pseudo-dancehall beat, and Fabolous rides these with a steely precision: "The best things come (beat) for those who wait for't/but I'm a go straight for't/before it's too late for't" - he's like the T-1000 to J-Budden's Terminator on "Pump It Up".

The remix of Mya's "Best of Me" with Jay-Z works according to a similar logic of busting through the light fragility of the "song" section.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 15 May 2005 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.