David Bowie – Never Let Me Down C/D?

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"Let's Dance" my ass: now THIS is the real great divide. A bad album, but a listenable one; it's a bad album only a compelling artist can make. Better songs than the boring "Tonight" (which deserves more hate).

Discuss?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hah, no, I like your line about a compelling artist, but no. About the only thing I can say in its defense is that trying so hard to like it when I was 14 was somehow character-building.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Better songs than the boring "Tonight" (which deserves more hate).

Fuckin' WRONGITY WRONG WRONG WRONG!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

But "Time Will Crawl"! and "Beat of Your Drum" (love the line, "Disco brat, follow the pack"; er, physician, heal thyself)!

But, yeah, "Shining Star (Makin' My Love)" has to rank as one of the dottiest excresences ever committed to tape.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost to Alex: "Tonight" has appalling attempts at AOR in "Don't Look Down," "Tonight," and, my candidate for the worst-sung tune in a career full of them, his version of "God Only Knows."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Dr. C to thread! He's a strong defender of the album.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

And what about Dr R?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Tonight at least had "Loving the Alien" on it, which is amazing. Never Let Me Down had.....hmmmmmm....let me think now....oh yeah, now I remember: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Adding cruel insult to permanent-bruise-causing-injury, it came sleeved in the WORST ALBUM COVER EVER!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00001OH81.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I love NLMD. I'll say more later, but I can find no wrong with it apart from the abominable 'Shining Star'. One of my most played Bowie albums

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, no, I can't say there's NOTHING wrong with it (there's plenty wrong with it), but I'm defending it merely as a better album than "Tonight."

And this is for Alex: the WORST HAIR EVAH:

http://www.algonet.se/~earflaps/bowie/pv87b.jpg

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a terrible album, Time Will Crawl and (if I'm feeling generous) the title track excepted. terrible terrible terrible. it's not as good as tonight simply because it doesn't have any songs as good as Blue Jean or Loving the Alien

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Tonight has some gems on it, such as the aforementioned "Loving the Alien" and "Blue Jean", and contains what is probably one of my favorite songs that Bowie chose to cover in "Tumble and Twirl". I actually enjoy the psuedo reggae tracks "Don't Look Down" and "Tonight" and the 'rockers', Neighborhood Threat and Dancing With the Big Boys are ok as well. The only real dud is the ungodly cover of God Only Knows.

Never Let Me Down is dire (though I actually enjoy Shining Star :)

― bahtology runs amok, Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't this where Bowie says he literally lost the plot thanks to all the cocaine? He claims to not even remember much of the '80s. Quite convenienyes, but, man, I'd try to forget it, too, even if I wasn't frying my brain at the time.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

"Isn't this where Bowie says he literally lost the plot thanks to all the cocaine? He claims to not even remember much of the '80s."

That would be the '70s (specifically, during the Young Americans-Station To Station period). In the '80s the only drug to which Bowie was addicted was celebrity.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: Never Let Me Down vs. "This Is Not America" w/ Pat Metheny

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

No no better yet

TS: Never Let Me Down vs. "Dancing In The Streets" w/ Mick Jagger

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The actual song isn't too bad. The album in full is hardly the highlight of his artistic career. He would sink even deeper with Tin Machine though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Donut, you remind me of the babe.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

dude, just sayin', if i'm going to jail forever, i wanna do it the way that dude in falcon and the snowman did it, man. just sit somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and let the arsenal come get me, so they can ponder my solitude and go "dude, that dude is, like, pondering his solitude. right on"

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 18 May 2005 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/terrorists_spies/spies/boyce_lee/1a.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 May 2005 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: "Time Will Crawl" vs "Dancing in the Streets"

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I must say, the video for "Day-In Day-Out" scared the fuck out of me when I was 14. Dunno it was the Daryl Hall mullet or roller skates or fat blonde bag lady that did it.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Smashing Pumpkins' version = Classic.

― PB, Thursday, 19 May 2005 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

You sly boots.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 May 2005 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Tonight at least had "Loving the Alien" on it, which is amazing. Never Let Me Down had.....hmmmmmm....let me think now....oh yeah, now I remember: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Actually, Tonight had "(Jazzin for) Blue Jean" and "Loving the Alien"; while Never Let Me Down had "Day-In Day-Out", "Time Will Crawl" and "Never Let Me Down"; so -- in my mind at least -- It's better by one song. Yes, the rest of the songs on NLMD are weak...but the rest of the songs on Tonight are complete and utter merde. Even Tina Turner's talent went to waste.
But you are right about one thing, Alex, the album cover was atrocious.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 19 May 2005 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

for someone as cool as bowie is, he was also certainly overfond of the mullet look.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 19 May 2005 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

and alex , alex in nyc/sf, what the hell is up? whazz up with the scenes? how on are you?

― constance eisbaah, Thursday, 19 May 2005 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The title track on "Tonight" is better than anything on "Never Let Me Down"

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually like "Zeroes." It would have benefitted from less zealous production.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

By 1983, the mullet was still a bit cool. By 1987, it was as mainstream as it was uncool and naff in 1997...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

My chart on the lost years: TM2>TM1>Tonight>"This Is Not America">Oy Vey Baby>Never Let Me Down>"Magic Dance">>>>>"Dancing in the Streets". (Looking like I rate the listenability in more or less inverse proportion to DB's best intentions.)

― brianiac (briania), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

He would sink even deeper with Tin Machine though.

NO, those records are great. doesn't ILX have this discussion every four months? I think those records are due for a critical reappraisal soon.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Let us not forget that Never Let Me Down also had Peter Frampton on lead guitar!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd rather Peter Frampton play lead guitar on Bowie records than Reeves fuckin' Gabels.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"This is Not America" is Bowie's best song ever. Maybe that belongs on the What is the rarest opinion you actually possess? thread.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that he can credibly be referred to as Reeves fuckin' Gabrels is exactly why Tin Machine rules over NLMD.

― brianiac (briania), Thursday, 19 May 2005 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope Gabrels has nothing against Reeves fucking him.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

He fucked Bowie long enough.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

With that same utensil he played guitar with, presumably.

― brianiac (briania), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

1. Low
2. "Heroes"
3. Ziggy Stardust
4. The Man Who Sold The World
5. Station To Station
6. Scary Monsters
7. Hunky Dory
8. Heathen
9. Aladdin Sane
10.Lodger
11.Diamond Dogs
12.Reality
13...Hours...
14.Earthling
15.Outside
16.Let's Dance
17.Space Oddity
18.Tonight
19.Black Tie White Noise
20.Young Americans
21.Never Let Me Down
22.Pin Ups
23.David Bowie
24.Tin Machine
25.Tin Machine 2

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey just for the record the absolute worst, by far, Bowie LP is Black Tie White Noise. Pitiful airbrushed 'beats'. Awful.
Geir - what's wrong with Pin-Ups?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 19 May 2005 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

black tie white noise is hardly as bad as NLMD; it has Jump They Say, Miracle Goodnight, Night Flights.... half of it is rub, yes, but half is pretty good.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 May 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir - what's wrong with Pin-Ups?

A completely pointless release, like most cover albums.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I enjoy "Black Tie White Noise" much more than "Outside" or "...hours." The beats are better, the arrangements tamer. At this point in his career Bowie can only cannibalize himself; thus, the less he tries, the better the music.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the direction he's taken from "...Hours" onwards. Of course he cannot ever be innovative or influential anymore, but on these three albums, he's taken some of more interesting aspects of his 70s albums and combined it with three collections of rather good pop songs. Particularly "Heathen" was great.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 19 May 2005 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

heathen is wonderful, i gave it a listen again after not hearing it for almost a year. the last album was a big drop for him though.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 May 2005 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I like "Heathen" too – and, I guess I'm in the minority, but I like "Reality" even more. He excised a lot of those portentious ballads that don't portend a whole lot. And the band is tight.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

**black tie white noise is hardly as bad as NLMD; it has Jump They Say, Miracle Goodnight, Night Flights..**

Yeah 'Jump' is good and I have a little bit of time for 'Don't Let Me Down and Down' (he didn't write that, but I can't remember who did) and that's all. Around half of the recd sounds like the sort of soporific stuff that would fail to get onto a mid 80's Steve Winwood recd....with limp beats added underneath. The title track is particularly horrible.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 20 May 2005 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and alex , alex in nyc/sf, what the hell is up? whazz up with the scenes? how on are you?

Myself and Alex in SF are different people entirely.

I quite liked the first Tin Machine record. There, I said it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 May 2005 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

What a fun thread. Plus, I just heard "Shining Star (Makin' My Love)" again.

(I should confess I was piss-drunk when I made a lot of the declarations above, but the sentiments are honest).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 21:45 (twenty years ago)

I think this would be in my top 5 Bowie albums.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 2 March 2006 09:13 (twenty years ago)

I like the Mickey Rourke rap in "Shining Star". But these really were the wilderness years. The best you could say was that you had Bowie to yourself at that point. Nobody else wanted him.

Oh, I remember quite liking a track called "Girls", which was the b-side of the "Time Will Crawl" single. The lyric was completely vacant, but there was a desperate gear change in the chorus, a Bowieshriek, on "whispering wind, what are they giving away?"

I think this clip is called for again.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 2 March 2006 11:00 (twenty years ago)

I gave up after 'Tonight', so I never heard NLMD, except the single on the radio (which didn't really whet my appetite). Then I tuned back in (after a fashion) for 'Outside'.

Momus, I'd be interested to know if you rate any of his post Scary Monsters albums? (I listened to Heathen again the other night, I thought it stood up reasonably well.)

― jz, Thursday, 2 March 2006 11:15 (twenty years ago)

From a Bowie interview around the time of NLMD:

'An L.A. cutting room rumor is circulating which teams Bowie and Jagger in a comedy-adventure, for which there's already a working script. David's only reply is a cryptic, "It's in the air."'

Christ! Even Bowie might not have been able to come back from that.

http://www.algonet.se/~bassman/articles/index.html

― Fred Muziak, Thursday, 2 March 2006 11:59 (twenty years ago)

"Julie," tThe b-side to "Day-In Day-Out," is rather fine too.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:01 (twenty years ago)

In a word, jz, no.

I've always had a funny relationship with Bowie. On the one hand he's perhaps the most important influence on my entire life. I live in dread of him coming into the Whitney Museum, where I'm performing for the next three months, because I'm sure I'd melt into a puddle on the floor if I saw him in person. On the other hand, and perhaps because of these high standards, I've always judged his work very harshly. For instance, in the 70s I'd often take his records back to the shop and ask for my money back (after taping them, naturally). I did that with "Young Americans", for instance. I thought "Station To Station" was a really lazy record at the time, a falling-off. I didn't even buy "Low" until after I bought "Heroes". And although I became a huge fan again during the Berlin years, I sort of believed the reviews of Wire's "154" which said that this was how Bowie should sound, rather than the rather patchy "Scary Monsters" (I love Side 1 but rather mistrust where Side 2 is going).

I haven't bought anything since "Earthling", and haven't even heard the albums he's made since then, apart from the odd snatch in some depressing in-store booth. What I do hear makes me raise my eyebrows skeptically, like Dr Bryce when he listens to "The Visitor" in "The Man Who Fell To Earth":

"To be honest, I didn't much care for it."

"I didn't make it for you, I made it for my wife."

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:02 (twenty years ago)

I agree with your assessment of Scary Monsters (1st side perfect, second side leaves something to be desired). And I sort of agree with you on the rest. It's very hard to dissasociate recent Bowie from the now mythologised 70s heyday. But if you can trick yourself into coming at it with fresh ears, then some of the later stuff stands up. Of course, a contented, middle-aged doting father is never going to really compete with an extraordinary-looking, alienated, coked-up artrockstar with messianic delusions who writes like Burroughs and croons like Frank Sinatra.

― jz, Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:18 (twenty years ago)

Sigh, time...

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:27 (twenty years ago)

I live in dread of him coming into the Whitney Museum, where I'm performing for the next three months, because I'm sure I'd melt into a puddle on the floor if I saw him in person.

Btw, I did once see Bowie in person and at close quarters. Early 90s, at a party at the French Ministry of Culture. It was quite bizarre. As usual with famous people he seemed smaller than I'd imagined. Almost girlishly fine-featured, a bit beaky, perhaps not quite as handsome as he looks on film. He also looked like he'd had some work done on his face. There was a highly posed moment when he shook the hands of Jack Lang, the then Minister of Culture, and then stood there chatting with various people Lang introduced him to as he sipped water, with camera flashes going all the while. It was rather like the Queen visiting a factory or something, except this was a party! It must be so strange to be that famous.

― jz, Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:29 (twenty years ago)

i walked by david bowie on the street once, in the east village! that was one of the most momentous days of my life (haha yes i am that pathetic w/ my bowie-fandom!)

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 2 March 2006 14:47 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

"The baby spiders would get scared and look frantically for their mother."

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 4 May 2007 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

i still kind of like black tie, white noise. it's kind of funny that he put out a double cd version of this with remixes etc as if anyone cared or bought it. admirable, almost.

― akm, Friday, 4 May 2007 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

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