If we lived in a world where music was only made by/for weathly patrons....

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The following bit of sarcasm from the "Selling Out: C or D" thread got me wondering...

Anyway, that is what we get for not having a landed aristocracy with tons o' money to blow on artistic patronage anymore, innit?

What kind of musical culture would Western Society have if all the music that was released publically was directly funded by some sort of Elite upper class/"landed gentry"/aristocracy...

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 26 May 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

the same we have now

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 26 May 2005 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Compared th many of the musicians, the music IS released by the elite. They won capital, not land. Well, sometimes great TRACTS of land, also.

― Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, 26 May 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

blount otm

― shine headlights on me (electricsound), Thursday, 26 May 2005 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

...then Stars Forever would be hailed as a classic.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 26 May 2005 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(that's assuming Nick's quite wealthy)

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 26 May 2005 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, lemme tweak this a bit:
Lets assume the "patronage system" I speak of isn't something new, but instead is a continuation of the one set up in the Middle Ages. Would all pop culture still be playing some variant of Classical... or is RockPopRapJazzBluesFunkCountryFolkCrunkGrunge something that would've "happened anyway"?
and second question, if this alternate world was one without a tradition of RockPopRapJazzBluesFunkCountryFolkCrunkGrunge what would your fave musicians be doing in the new paradigm? Would Kanye West and MIA be singing Opera or would it all be weirdo John Cage Disciples?
And a subquestion aimed at this universes metalheads: Would Wolfgang Amadeus Ulrich ever stop suing his fanbase and finish up his Fourth Symphony in D Minor?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 26 May 2005 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Wrt to your first question, can you clarify whether or not the rebellious children of wealthy aristocratic types be allowed to patronise the sorts of music they liked; or would it only be the respectable, solid, pillar-of-the-community types who got to flash the cash in this manner?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

From another posting, back in the day...

2) Please a select audience.
Appeal to a very selective demographic. Discerning musical gourmands with lots of money who will sponsor you and keep you (Heck, it worked for Tchaikovski), and enter into a very personal relationship with your fans. Until they also get bored or offended by some imagined or actual slight and withdraw their lifelines)

The problem is, as Colin Newman of Wire described it, music making is a balance between prostitution (pleasing your customer only) and masturbation (pleasing yourself only). Reducing your 'funding' to one patron means a hand to mouth existance, and no chance of doing something that your patron dislikes...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

... unless the patron only really cares about the reflected status they recieve by way of their funding of the musician?

― LRJP! (LRJP!), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Power corrupts. etc.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's see what happens with this "Cash for Big Mac Shout Outs" thing. Or does product placement really match up to patronage? In this humble newsreaders opinion, yes it does.

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"What kind of musical culture would Western Society have if all the music that was released publically was directly funded by some sort of Elite upper class/"landed gentry"/aristocracy... "

the key stuff you have to look at is 'released'. it's not as if music was ever restricted to that which was paid for by the aristocracy, and although i'm not 100% on the early history of recorded sound, i doubt that this was exclusively aimed at the aristos either. so what are you blithering on about?

― N_RQ, Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"is RockPopRapJazzBluesFunkCountryFolkCrunkGrunge something that would've "happened anyway"?"

well, erm, the roots of these musics *did* happen anyway, they co-existed with the 'classical' tradition... what do you think 'folk' means?

― N_RQ, Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

one word:OPERA!

― JOCKEY, Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Hip Hop would be all about breeding.

― The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Thursday, 26 May 2005 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

...can you clarify whether or not the rebellious children of wealthy aristocratic types be allowed to patronise the sorts of music they liked; or would it only be the respectable, solid, pillar-of-the-community types who got to flash the cash in this manner?
I guess if the same rich people exist in "that universe" as exists in "our universe" then I guess the "rebellious children" would probably be Sir Richard of Branson against all the stodgy, hidebound dukes, earls and viscounts of the houses of Rockerfeller, Hilton and Kennedy
and, of course, Lord Donald of Trump and his golden crown of hair.
But what would Richard Branson's patronage accomplish? How would he
rebel?
and what would John Lydon be? Some kinda Irish Folk proto-Ornette Coleman?

...so what are you blithering on about?
Not sure yet. It just sounds like a fun idea for a science fiction story.

Hip Hop would be all about breeding.
So, Crips aren't as good as Bloods because Bloods have officially recognized pedigrees?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

supertramp to thread.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 26 May 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i love when custos tries to do sociology

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 26 May 2005 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm an amateur science fiction writer. The sociology of TEH REAL bores me to tears.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Friday, 27 May 2005 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

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