Classic or Dud: "The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle"

Oh yeah, and I just saw "Sid and Nancy" again and have decided that despite my romantic high-school attachment to it, it's mostly aggravating, and the guy who played John Lydon should have been beaten to death. Just my opinion.

'Filth and the Fury' is very much the group's response to McLaren's (and other) accounts. I tend to believe them, but then 20/20 hindsight is in full effect. It's also more watchable, but "you want a nice 'rock movie'? Fuck off!" is a big part of the approach of "Swindle".

McLaren's got some talent in him of some kind, but it didn't show through in that case.

Soon after I rented this one I rented The Filth & The Fury, and it beats the hell out of Swindle.

But even then it's choppy, digressive, and has Malcolm Mclaren's hands all over it.

It's not even worth comparing to the Filth & the Fury, which is a serious picture. This is just a load of impenetrable tomfoolery (what was Temple thinking re: the whole Brazil/Ronnie Biggs chapter?) It's largely unwatchable, once again.

It's basically the `Pistols' equivalent of the Magical Mystery Tour film.

Saw him with a live band in the early nineties, during one of the 'Edinburgh - European City of Punk' festivals, I think. Still a thoroughly berserk performer, and gave his UK hits a good kicking.

But that's in the Filth and the Fury anyway. I have no desire to see the GR&RS again. The F & the F on the other hand is a great documentary which I've already seen twice and will probably watch again someday. I wouldn't mind seeing Jubilee again as well now that Soukesian brings it up.

It also retains the feel of how upsetting it all was at the time, far better than any jolly VH1-type retrospective.

We all went down to the local fleapit when this came out. The muzak (usually Herb Alpert) had been replaced with the "Bollocks" album. The girls with the trays came down the isles. One of the packs of lads further down said something, and one of the girls swore and flicked the v's. "This is going to be different" I thought. Two girls were sat a few aislerows down from us, got bombarded by about five punks who came in late, they didn't seem to know them. About half an hour, they were all snogging furiously.

My mates there, Mark was more an Osmond fan but had gone willingly. "I never liked the Who, but I enjoyed Quadrophenia" was his rationale. Well, he lasted about as far as the first 'live' scenes, with the crowd 'fighting/pogoing' at which he turned to me and said "Right, I'm off home now." Which is a shame as he'd have enjoyed the rest of it better, but as I said to Kevin "That took some courage anyway...". (Oh, the girls weren't selling "Anarkee-ora" or any of that, I would have got one if so..). The rest of the gang walked home as we all made mad plans to make our own movie, which was promptly forgotten about by the next day.

No doubt Stewart and Dr C. were there too.

The last time I saw the film it was on the TV, I watched it at Dawn's house on around my third visit. We lasted as far as "Pretty Vacant" but for different reasons...... .. .

It's got that endearlingly grubby quality of those British films from the 70s that still turn up sometimes in the middle of the night on ITV: sex 'comedies' starring Robin Asquith etc. Appearances from people like Irene Handl & a young Pete Beale help this. They should've had Arthur Lowe playing a stuffy EMI exec. If Russ Meyer had directed it, it would lack this, to its detriment, I think.

Edward Tudor Pole was next in line to play Withnail if Richard E Grant turned it down, I once heard. His career would've been very different, I guess.

more temperately, i think F&F wz a massive missed opportunity to NOT plump for the hand-me-down mythology for once

temple's only good movie = "earth girls are easy"

i really hope s&s let this through.

-- bham (bha...), May 27th, 2005

that's true and paul mcgann really liked him.

No doubt Stewart and Dr C. were there too."

I can't speak for The Doc, but I certainly was!

This was in the old cinema opposite the back of the Co-Op, right?

Iirc they actually put the first performance on a wednesday afternoon or something daft, presumably because they were expecting some trouble and wanted to spread this out as far as possible.

Did you actually pay to get in Mark?

As I recall only 2 or 3 of the local "Star Crew" lads actually paid to get in, and they immediately proceeded to open the fire escape in the corridor at the back next to the toilets, where about 30 or 40 more of us were waiting.

We all piled straight in, sat down, and gleefully told the cinema staff to fuck off when they first of all asked us to show them our tickets and then asked us to leave.

I also remember everyone cheering and going made when a couple of the local boys appeared in some of the gig footage.

Good memories and some great footage but as far as the film itself's concerned overall, I'd say a resounding DUD.

I don't think it's one for Amber and Alice, but there you are.

I remember thinking SJones was being "so outrageous" about saying how glad he was when the Beatles split. A few years later, I understood better...

The film is more depressing in context. When this was filmed, Johnny's already jumped ship (been pushed?) and formed PiL and Sid was swiftly heading towards the deep end (did he live to see it released in theatres?). It was a last gasp cash-in if ever was there one. And tracks like "Lonely Boy", "Silly Thing" and Vicious' ridiculous takes on "C'mon Everybody" aren't exactly the stuff of legend. And "Belsen was a Gas" is more embarassing than shocking.

Also, the comments about the Seaside Postcard/Confessions/Carry On feel of the movie upthread are quite astute.

Oh come on. Virtually every documentary is shot with an agenda in mind. Even the good ones. Some are just more subtle than others (clearly not the case with the Filth & the Fury).

(so if anyone is recognisable it's becasue they "became" something later) (which is by no means impossible: half the punks in sid and nancy went on to be in east-enders)

About a month after that, Sid was dead.

So, no.

i wasn't making a pompous general criticism of good or bad docs, i was emphasising a (pompous) particular criticism, and why THIS doc is so aggravating and inept

*(several postpunk operations - including PiL actually, but also later ZTT - got the point and tried to pursue the project in a less chaotic DIY fashion: so in terms of inspiring people, mclaren succeeded) (but the film is terrible)

Comparing the two is pretty impossible as well, though. I mean, Filth.. is twenty-someodd years of bad blood and dubious mythology after the fact, whereas Swindle is relatively near to the event, and composed without the slightest regard for serious or conventional storytelling. It's like comparing Farenheit 911 to Team America.

a lot of my frustration with F&F is that i think temple had the access and the budget, and was "actually there", and then just went and made "another rock doc", all tidy mythologising and no bite

on the whole the clash are even LESS honest about their own past and mythology than the pistols now are (but i'm not sure if "westway" is the v.bad clash doc i saw on TV a few years back, so i can't answer that specific question) (i am not sane or forgiving when it comes to the clash, as you know)

it's such a waste not to CHALLENGE lydon: that's when he switches on

The Wokingham scene, as far as I can recall, consisted of one performance by Reading heroes Zerox and iirc another local band called The Suspects (did The Xtraverts play at that one too or did I only dream that?) at some local yoof club place during the summer of 1980, as a consequence of which all subsequent punk gigs in the town were effectively banned.

this pathetic punk wanna-be is egging the crowd on at some club

Terry & the Idiots.

KCG

always found Terry's post-"show" complaint quite touching, almost like a John Skeltonesque lament over the unkenning publicke

beyond being touching/sentimental, it also seems to me a keener look into the broader punk event than the signal moments, but that is mine own particular hobby-horse

I was still oop north when this came out.

Last time I saw "Jublilee" I really enjoyed it. I thought it was funny, esp the "no future" bit w/the petrol bomb. Perhaps it shd be watched alongside that mental society breakdown "quatermass" thing w/the stone circles and the badders and the blues.

I haven't seen "the filth and the fury" and I'm not really interested right now. I'd rather watch a documentary about sad lovers and giants.

Yeah, I bought this on DVD, recommended. Stece Jones takes a masterclass as one of the extras. (I bought it online from HMV australia, where the price is (was?) reasonable)

by jove this is a terrible film

Cartoon fucking shite. Embarrassing

I'd like to watch this back-to-back with the Monkees' 'Head'.

Still no myspace for Terry and the Idiots. Which is pretty surprising, all things considered, as is their no-show for Rebellion '08 in Blackpool.

A recent Mojo "Fred" page cleared up the "Terry and the Idiots" thing,

Basically, the film-makers wanted to go to Kings Road, but the taxi thought they said Kings Mead, so they went there, found a punk, said to him "Are there any punk bands playing tonight? we're making a film of the punk-scene" and of course he said "Yeah, we are" and beetled off to get his mates together to play the local pub that night, for the first/last time...

There have been interviews with Terry and the bass player who were tracked down by punk bloggers. Bassist is a career musician who played with many famous people strangely enough.

<...>I don't think it's one for Amber and Alice, but there you are.
<...>

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 27 May 2005 13:05 (fourteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe should dig this up for Alice now.

Never Mind the Baubles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXpSrT7jVb0