When did R&B jump the shark?

-- Alex in NYC

I want Alex in NYC to hear the Aaliyah s/t album (apologies if you have already and it's not your thing).

Corny indie fux0r answer or not it pretty much took my breath away. A truly 'felt' and modern soul album that just crushes the likes of Alicia Keys (who I sorta rated until this point, I still don't mind some of her stuff but...) and probably most others from the retro 'nu-soul' end of r&b. I still need to investigate Erykah Badu, she seems creative.

I still can't say I'm 'up' on modern r&b or rap beyond whatever selected singles I enjoy in passing, but I'll recommend this one to anyone. Fully enjoyable without having to also having to form an appreciation for Destiny's Child or other high-pitched-wailers (not my reading, just an example). Closer to Motown 'soul' than ... ummm R Kelley??

OK, I said my piece :P

You should realize, Ian, that calling someone a racist is a pretty serious accusation.

Fandango, there was an Aaliyah thread around here a while back wherein someone cited "One in a Million" (I belive) as one of the most groundbreaking singles of all time (or something). I disagreed, but I do think Aaliyah had some great singles (notably " "We Need a Resolution," "Try Again," or "Are You that Somebody").

I do not think you're a racist.
Sometimes yr a jerk, yes.. but no, I don't think you're a racist.

2. Motown falls apart. Smokey Robinson stops writing songs for everyone.

3. Diana Ross leaves the Supremes and starts with the melisma; Lady Sing The Blues, Mahogony, Endless Love s/ts.

4. Stevie Wonder stops writing actual songs; more melisma.

5. Hip hop; R&B increasingly defines itself by contrast to hip hop; must be vocal gymnastics everywhere.

6. "I Will Always Love You" and "The Greatest Love" become templates for 1000 songs; then Whitney Houston marries Bobby Brown.

7. Mariah Carey sings. People stop bothering to write songs.

and no surprise that sweeping generalizations about entire genres of music lead straight into knee-jerk accusations of racism.

Re: R&B, I should point out that I love absolutely everything Neneh Cherry has ever done and a track or two by Luther Vandross. Don't know if those qualify.

GV

(fucking hell tho "FEEL AND FREE" Daver? Next post, less Yoda.)

word to ya ma.

Anyway....

1) Vornado OTM to the power of a quintillion.

2) New Jack Swing had its moments, particularly Teddy Riley's work with Aaron Hall in the group Guy. The phenomenon of R&B taking its cues from hip-hop starts with New Jack Swing - it was soul music made by young acts who had grown up with hip-hop. (In fact, Teddy Riley cut his studio teeth doing beats & basslines for Kool Moe Dee.)

3) Alex is a big boy, and needs no one to go to bat for him, but calling someone out as a racist for being dismissive of modern-day R&B is lame, especially when he's clarified his position on countless other occasions.

Haven't heard it yet, so I'll reserve judgement. Haven't liked anything of hers since "Fantasy", though...

http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00140/afp_r_kelly_140864a.jpg

THIS THREAD IS SHAME.

BAN ALL-TOO-REAL GEIR!

C'mon, surely my man Geir knows that 1947 must be the only serious answer, right?

Shark-jumpage coincided with the introduction of the Yamaha DX7.

Synths jumped the shark with the introduction of the DX7 but they managed to escape sometime in the 90s, and was definitely safe with the introduction of those VA softsynths.

R&B never quite managed to recover from James Brown though, in spite of decent attempts by the likes of Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson and Lionel Ritche to save it during the 70s and 80s.

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/200500/200795TAcy_w.jpg

I remember when the DX7 was first released. There was a flexidisc that came with an issue of the American Keyboard magazine, illustrating the 'breathtaking realism' (or some such) of the sounds (compared to what the previous analog synths were capable of). And the thing is it WAS breathtaking. Hence everyone started plastering the DX7 over everything. The 'Log Drum' sound, for one, seemed so cool.

But after a while it became apparent there was something different about FM sounds. I don't know if anyone has ever tried to analyse what the issue is sonically, but FM sounds and samples off vinyl (for example) are like chalk and cheese (or wood and plastic, or something). They don't go together. I definitely wasted a lot of time in the early '90s discovering that.

The funny thing is FM sounds now sound charming in a retro way. I think it still might be tricky to integrate them with other types of sounds, though.

R&B jumped the shark when the first black person stepped up to the mic.

R&B died when the first punk said
"punk's not dead"

"PUNK'S NOT DEAD!! oops what's happened to Doctor Feelgood?"

Shark-jumpage coincided with the introduction of the Yamaha DX7.

-- Myonga Vön Bontee, Thursday, 25 October 2007 09:18 (4 hours ago) Link

Synths jumped the shark with the introduction of the DX7 but they managed to escape sometime in the 90s, and was definitely safe with the introduction of those VA softsynths.

R&B never quite managed to recover from James Brown though, in spite of decent attempts by the likes of Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson and Lionel Ritche to save it during the 70s and 80s.

-- Geir Hongro

Uh, thanks Geir; but I didn't necessarily want you agreeing with me! I certainly don't agree with your opinions on JB - or funk as a whole, for that matter.

And surely there are individual tracks I really like, despite the presence of FM synths.

Ah, bein' called a racist for not likin' R&B -- good times.

What's the 411
-- Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 31 May 2005 01:35

Crazy talk.

http://www.surplusrecords.com/singles/images/Untitled-23_jpg.jpg

OMG one of my favorite things in the whole world is when R&B (and other singers too I guess, but it happens more in R&B) POINT at the notes they are singing as though there is an invisible note thermometer in front of them.

Not so much the pleading open handed thing; it's like they are secretly praying for God to let them hit that note. The pointers, they know exactly where the note is. Right THERE.

Fingers bunched up guy on the left is just trying with all his might not to get all air-stringbass like he did back in "Motown Philly" days.

Not to call them shark-jumpers, but two things that hurt R&B in a big way in the very early '80s were the resegregation of Top 40 radio and the prodcution styles of Luther Vandross and Narada Michael Walden.