Yep another holy cow gets it. What amazes me about The Clash is that in theory I should love them when in reality they’re so pedestrian. Why? Because the voices are shit. Because on the first records the sound so terribly thin (so weak in comparison with say The Pistols). Then when they find some bottom I always get the impression the music doesn’t gel, simply because they were more in love with the idea of black music as ‘being down with the brother man’ (indeed if the Manics nowadays would do the same thing with say…hip-hop, they would be crucified). Oh and ‘London Calling’ is one of the most boring and consequently overrated albums of all time. Still I suspect you probably had to be there and that it all was very exciting. So a kind way of putting it is “they aged badly”. So dud.
― Omar, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Another day, another Classic (Clashic?) or Dud. I don't like the Clash. I borrowed a couple of their records just after discovering the Pistols and just thought they were a muggy mess. Then I tried again. And again. And again, most recently last year. And I still don't like them. I hate their myth, of course, but I don't think much of the Pistols' myth and I like their music. So it's not quite that. And I admire all the styles and influences they absorbed, too, and their attempts to keep their music fresh. So I think it might be as simple a thing as the voice and tunes not suiting me.
B.A.D.'s "E=MC2" I think is ace, though.
― Tom, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Didn't know about the Manics remix, but that's the safe thing of commisioning a remix isn't it? You don't get your hands dirty.
Where to start? The debut didn't have the best production but it sounds bloody powerful to me. Great songs too. They were never a straight-ahead punk band to me - the different musical roots all showed - Jones' glam guitar and camp singing, Strummer's rockabilly past and Simenon's immersion in Brixton dub-reggae. The inclusion of 'Police and Thieves' (and working with Lee Perry on 'Complete Control') was a brave and interesting move for the times, and totally genuine. I really can't see that they were interested in 'being down with the brother'.
I never really liked 'Give'em enough Rope', but all the hype about 'London Calling' is, for me, justified. Great, great rock and roll. 'Sandinista' is flawed genius - the band doing what they wanted, rather than what they should. Sure there's some crap on there, but THIS IS WHAT I WANT from artists - surprise, risk, the possibility of something new. 'Combat Rock' hasn't aged well, and 'Cut the Crap' isn't the Clash at all.
The Live album is beyond fantastic - if you can't get the power of the songs through the 1977 production, just hear the first album songs on this! As for the live versions of 'Bankrobber', 'City of the Dead' and 'Armagideon Time' - words fail me - genius. It;'s possibly the best Clash album of all! No doubt there will be some who agree and some who don't. It'll be interesting to follow the thread. Me? I'm in love with rock and roll, whoa!
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Anyway, The Clash has been my favorite band since I was 15. I won't try to explain why right now, and I'm not sure anything I could think of right now could quite explain their utter greatness. But in the meantime, a fucking C-L-A-S-S-I-C.
The voices sound perfectly fine to me - Strummer was, like Dylan, a limited singer whose voice was perfectly suited to his music - passionate and full of heart. And the way they integrated black music into their sound, especially reggae, feels more organic to me than any similar attempt by a white band - not that people try this sort of thing much lately.
Also, they were lots of fun - this is really important. Forget all the serious crap that everyone including myself always says about them.
Hmmm, I'll be back later :)
― Patrick, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Nick Greenfield, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
but the afghan whig's cover of "lost in the supermarket" is fab.
― fred solinger, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Michael bourke, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Anyhow, classic. I don't know why. I just love them. The voice works with the songs, in general. The music rocks. It might also help to note that I think the Sex Pistols blow goats, so maybe it's impossible to like both bands, since about half the people saying they dislike the Clash have mentioned liking the Sex Pistols (or are people I know like them).
And, for the record, I think the Repeat mix is better than the Repeat original, but it's not saying much cos Repeat is one of the Manics' most annoying pre-disappearance songs. It's probably one of the most obvious examples of the pedestrian cut-and-paste sloganeering, innit?
― Ally, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
They continually evolved, which is more than I can say for 99% of the shite that people call "classic" these days. You know you're a Clash fan when you wish that SANDINISTA! was 4 records...
And how can you say they haven't aged well?!? Tell me, who in the last 15 years has gone down a similar path to the Clash and outdone them? That's right, nobody. Nobody has even come close.
― Tim Baier, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tanya, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Steven James, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― DG, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
This is strangely true. My opinions on these two bands have totally reversed. At the time the Clash were, for a period, virtually gods to me (but I was rather indifferent to the Sex Pistols who seemed musically conservative). Now the Sex Pistols seem the more god-like, and the Clash a contrived mix of political posturing and repellent, ugly music
― David, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Kris, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― keith, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
FUCKING CLASSIC
― Larms, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
And the Ruts doing white reggae better? "Jah War" versus "The Guns of Brixton" or "One More Time"? Come on, there's no contest.
― Greg Ferguson, Tuesday, 20 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Larms, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Dr. C, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
As for comments about Strummer's voice - who do you fuckin' want singing then? Neil Hannon? Mr. Belle and Sebastian? Kiri Te Kanawa?
Anyhow, yeah, what the hell? How can the existance of Rancid make the Clash's music good or bad? This gets perilously into the territory of a previous thread about holding the bands inspired by someone against the original band - an idea pretty much everyone disowned because it would mean every band ever would be labelled crap because someone out there who is talentless is inspired by them. It's unfair.
And Rancid aren't that bad - they could be, like, the Levellers.
― Ally, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Anyway, both the Clash and Rancid come across as patent bores who can't do anything interesting to save their lives. On that level they're equally culpable. ;-)
― Patrick, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Also a double lp was a bit of a bad idea, but a triple!?
― Nick Greenfield, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Tanya: Well, if you are such a fan of Marillion, then you should be happy that they have aged well and nobody has surpassed them in recent years and made them look bad! ;)
Oh yes, and you can chalk me up as one who thinks both the Pistols (all 1 albums of them) and the Clash are brilliant.
― Tim Baier, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Charlie Frame, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― DG, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Therefore, the Smiths are the worst band of all time because Gene suck.
― Ally, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Wire = Elastica = Crap. Madonna = Christina Aguilera = Crap. Clash = Rancid = Crap.
"we're middle class - yeah, yeah, yeah ----we come from public school - yeah, yeah, yeah" ;-)
"they told us to release complete control - so we DID!" x0x0
― norman fay, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Stevo, Wednesday, 6 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― tarden, Wednesday, 6 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
x0x0
― Norman Fay, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― kenny shohan, Monday, 6 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― adaml (adaml), Sunday, 28 September 2003 22:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Cacaman Flores, Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:18 (twenty years ago) link
I think I'd be fine with that, actually.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:24 (twenty years ago) link
Seems to have everything but The Clash SqueezeCut the Crap.
― Two Severins Clash (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
HAH, true, but that's like fake Clash. "This Is England" is great, but fuck everything else on it.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:26 (two years ago) link
I don't why "This is England" is considered a standout. That cast-o'-thousands chorus is corny as hell. I mean, the album is a dud, but I actually appreciate the cluttered mashups of "Dictator" and "Fingerpoppin'" as a continuation of where Combat Rock was headed.
― Citole Country (bendy), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:34 (two years ago) link
I liked "Dirty Punk" as well. The album is bad, but not "cast this out of the canon" bad.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:39 (two years ago) link
Cut The Crap is...as good as any other Clash album, and better than some. Their whole discography is a goddamn mess, and as a strip-it-to-the-bone, no-pop-moves record it more than does the job. The guitar sound is ugly as shit, but in a really interesting way, and when you combine that with the Big Black-ish drum machine, the random stabs of ultra-80s synth, and the gang vocals, Strummer was actually really onto something. People who don't like it are too attached to the mythology of four dudes in a room makin' rock 'n' roll.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:41 (two years ago) link
IIRC, I think Bernie Rhodes was the one who dubbed in the chorus without Strummer's approval. It's probably better without it, but I'm okay with it - it's an anthem, and it does feel like a stadium full of soccer fans singing it. (Not a bad song for soccer fans to sing in unison, if that ever happens.)
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:42 (two years ago) link
Sound System doesn't include everything, it's missing 2 tracks from the This Is Radio Clash 12" for a start.
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 07:50 (two years ago) link
i had never really been bothered to check before as my wife was the clash fan in this house.but it turns out that my cd of the debut is the US tracklisting.is that the standard edition these days, or, if i see it again will it be more likely to be the UK tracklisting ?
― mark e, Thursday, 5 August 2021 10:06 (two years ago) link
Looks like since 2002 CD reissues have been the UK version
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 10:12 (two years ago) link
I hadn't listened to the first album in ages until this revive. Hit the spot. It's remarkable how much the band benefits from better production. On the US version, "I Fought the Law" just pops right out for that reason.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 August 2021 12:26 (two years ago) link
Mark - the US version has the band name in the top right (and reddish), the proper version has the band name in the lower right, and more orange.
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:00 (two years ago) link
can't rely on that unfortunately:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Clash-The-Clash/release/16033574
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:06 (two years ago) link
Mark did ask "these days," ie in the 21 years since the remasters, not "if I'm buying loose CDs taken from mysterious European box sets and flogged individually second-hand"
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:14 (two years ago) link
iirc Mark likes to buy CDs from charity shops which means it's not unlikely he'd encounter something like that. there's more than just that one, also found a UK track list with a US cover from 2012
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:19 (two years ago) link
Ah, my mistake. Truth be told I never bought it - I know Mick Jones supervised the mastering very closely, but he still had the whole thing crushed with additional compression (a fucking bane on modern digital masterings - I wish people would stop doing that for physical releases). I stuck with the original CD releases, but FWIW, here's what's missing that has been issued on CD elsewhere:
1. Justice Tonight/Kick it Over (available on "Super Black Market Clash")2. Mustapha Dance (available on "Super Black Market Clash")3. Robber Dub (available on "Super Black Market Clash")4. Listen (Full version) (available on "Super Black Market Clash")5. Radio One (from "Hitsville UK" 7" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)6. Radio Five (From "This Is Radio Clash" 12" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)7. Outcast Broadcast (From "This Is Radio Clash" 12" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)8. Janie Jones (Demo) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)9. Career Opportunities (Demo) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)10. One Emotion (Available on "Clash On Broadway")11. Every Little Bit Hurts (Available on "Clash On Broadway")12. Red Angel Dragnet (Edited Version) (Available on "Clash On Broadway")13. Ghetto Defendant (Edited Version) (Available on "Clash On Broadway")14. English Civil War (Live) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)15. I Fought The Law (Live) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)
Also the version of "Clash City Rockers" included in the box set is the slower "correct speed" version. As detailed elsewhere, their manager thought it would help to speed up the record when it was originally released, even though Mick and Paul sounded like chipmunks on the backing vocals. The original 7" is sped up and many CD masterings kept it that way, but quite a few CD's even before Sound System have it in the original speed when they went back to the first-generation master tape.
I remember when the Clash's CD catalog was remastered in 1999 (IIRC they took longer to appear in the U.S. and weren't released here until the following year), they advertised (at least in the US) that it was the first time the UK version would be available on CD anywhere. More accurately, if you were in the UK or US, it would be the first time both versions would be in-print on CD there at the same time. However, in the UK, the previous CD was the UK version, and in the US, their previous CD's were always the US version.
I still prefer the UK version. I love the stuff they added to the US version, but it sounds too much like they shoehorned in stuff from later sessions - it's recorded better, they had a different (and better) drummer. It feels less cohesive and more patchwork, so it plays more like a compilation which I guess it really is.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:19 (two years ago) link
can't rely on that unfortunately
Much more succinct - thanks bovarism. This is what I have, and it's a great sounding CD, supposedly from the original master tape. No additional compression, no trebly-happy EQ, perfect if you want to crank it up.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:20 (two years ago) link
The US edition of the debut >>>>>>>>>>>>> UK
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:21 (two years ago) link
However, in the UK, the previous CD was the UK version, and in the US, their previous CD's were always the US version.
I don't think this is right, I have the US edition on CD, which I bought in the UK in the late 90s, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't an import, although Discogs just lists it as "Europe".
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:25 (two years ago) link
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, August 5, 2021 3:00 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
actually, that's the cd edition i have.will keep eye out in the charity shop bins for UK version from hereon though.
― mark e, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:27 (two years ago) link
When they remastered and reissued them all back in the late '90s or whenever, they definitely re-released both the US and UK versions in the US.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:27 (two years ago) link
indeed -- I own both.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:29 (two years ago) link
Yes, that's what I was referring to, but those came out in 2000 in the U.S. They were issued in 1999 elsewhere, so they may have been imported until they were formally released in the U.S. the following year.
I didn't want to confuse things further because it's really complicated, but to go into greater detail, both the US and UK version had been available on CD in the UK prior to the 1999 remastering campaign. I even remember thinking the UK version had never been issued on CD in the UK. But several years later I found out about the stock UK version that pre-dates the 1999 remaster. It looks like this:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8JE6nroVJG4/YGcmCmtvVzI/AAAAAAAABME/l4ltideIyR8DQWYCMbi9WRvbgKjo4Lh9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s0/IMG_20210402_1505214%257E2.jpg
― birdistheword, Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:36 (two years ago) link
ta all - I remember the orange-bottom red-top thing being codified with the 1999 remasters (which are good!). iirc they also say "remastered by Bill Price" or "Mick Jones and Bill Price" on the back, if mark's flipping.
(Mick did remaster them that round, but he might not have taken a credit.)
― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, 5 August 2021 15:45 (two years ago) link
Two more "missing" tracks are "Do It Now" and "Sex Mad Roar" which are on cd in the singles box set, and nowhere else.
I know that's into "Clash II" territory, but as "Cut the Crap" is on cd, thought I'd mention.
Oh, and "Pouring Rain" on the Joe Strummer "The future is unwritten" but
― Mark G, Thursday, 5 August 2021 17:34 (two years ago) link
I actually like all the songs on the This Is England single. But I've still never listened to Cut The Crap.
― bovarism, Thursday, 5 August 2021 19:10 (two years ago) link
i never cared for english pop punk but dont rob the cash box and lydon calling are ok and didnt they do a rap song and a reggae song?!
― xzanfar, Thursday, 5 August 2021 22:36 (two years ago) link
This made me laugh:
"Mick Jones has joked that they were the kind of band that would record thirty songs and release thirty-one."
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-clash-think-inside-the-box+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 10 August 2021 01:18 (two years ago) link
https://trouserpress.com/letsagetabitarockin/
― I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 September 2021 14:09 (two years ago) link
That's incredible.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 14:38 (two years ago) link
Cool. Haven't really read it myself yet /pvmic.
― I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 September 2021 15:01 (two years ago) link
that looks amazing, thanks. just skimmed a bit for now.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 22:54 (two years ago) link
yeah it's a great read.
― visiting, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 23:22 (two years ago) link
Bloody good, that. Seemed a little soft at first, but bears down more and more on particulars of the sound and how it got that way. I remember (in a Trouser Press ad) a 101ers LP or EP[, Elgin Avenue Breakdown w some of the songs mentioned here; an expanded reissue came out after Strummer died, but I never heard either version. Although I think there may have been excerpts in Julian Temple's good Strummer doc, The Future Is Unwritten.
― dow, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 23:39 (two years ago) link
yep it was released in 1981
https://www.discogs.com/The-101ers-Elgin-Avenue-Breakdown/master/193698
― sleeve, Thursday, 23 September 2021 00:36 (two years ago) link
Post today (Saturday) by Glen Matlock.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:00 (one year ago) link
Cool!
― When Harpo Played His ARP (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:08 (one year ago) link
Mick's been keeping a very low profile for quite a while now.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:16 (one year ago) link
?
― Vance Vance Devolution (sic), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:52 (one year ago) link
Except for the Combat Rock reissue, I didn't think Mick had been very active, but apparently he's popped up in a few places in the past few years (recording with the Avalanches in 2020, the Flaming Lips in 2019, etc.) I think he just took a break after producing Kitty, Daisy & Lewis in 2014 - he did a ton of stuff in the first half of the '10s, so he probably needed it.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 4 September 2022 18:39 (one year ago) link
I just came across a book about The Clash in America that I hadn’t know about but feel like I will have to read right now.
― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 00:24 (one year ago) link
What's the name?
I just learned that Elvis Costello's This Year's Model master tape had Costello and Mick Jones of The Clash playing tandem rhythm guitar on a coda to “Pump It Up,” that got edited out of the album release (but can now be be heard on Costello's Spanish Model version of the album with the guest vocalists ) and that Mick Jones played on the Costello song "Big Tears"
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:09 (one year ago) link
I knew the latter fact but not the former.
― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:10 (one year ago) link
Stealing All Transmissions: A Secret History of The Clash, by Randal Doane.
― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:14 (one year ago) link
https://artsfuse.org/117329/fuse-book-review-stealing-all-transmissions-how-the-clash-conquered-america/
― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 18:20 (one year ago) link
Thanks---btw did I mention my Voice coverage of The Sandinista! Project, archived here w link to more TSP comments on my Nashville Scene ballot: https://myvil.blogspot.com/2016/06/clash-stash-actually-cuts-crap.htmlAlso, did yall see this?
The new Joe Strummer boxset, Joe Strummer 002: The Mescaleros Years, will be released on September 16th, 2022, as part of the celebrations honouring Joe’s 70th birthday year. The first-ever comprehensive collection highlighting Joe’s work with his post-Clash band, The Mescaleros, the collection includes remastered editions of all three of the band’s studio albums, plus 15 rare and unreleased tracks spanning the first demos Joe wrote for the Mescaleros, and outtakes of several tracks of Joe’s final recordings with the band...
― dow, Sunday, 27 November 2022 20:03 (one year ago) link
Cool. That book starts off talking about this, of course:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyuGLHnZhOI
― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 November 2022 02:38 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDDZgEHaczA
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:14 (seven months ago) link
toss up whether to put it here or on the kevin ayers thread.
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:16 (seven months ago) link
Wow, guess I have to click to see.
― No Zing Compares 2 HOOS (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:21 (seven months ago) link
Viz. Costello thing: yes! That Spanish This Year Model is super great. You also get to hear how No Action and I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea were recorded basically as one track. I was fearful of that project but it's so good. Now if we could only get the real Rat Patrol (which I know we won't).
― three of the doctor's valuable bats are now dead (broom air), Sunday, 13 August 2023 23:35 (seven months ago) link