Article Response: Pixies

Funny, I was just thinking tonight while listening to Bossanova that the places where it drags are where it sounds more like any old modern-rock band. So in many ways they were not the most abstract ever - certainly not when they were not at their best, at least.

a good piece, tom. as i remarked to you earlier, i was also always struck about how the band really "stood" very little, that they weren't the spokesman of their generation in any way. "rock music" -- title, lyrics, music -- probably best sums up what they were about.

It's actually too good of a piece. Combine it with just having finished David Cavanagh's Creation book, and I am having intense pangs of nostalgia for pre-Kurt indie which really can't be healthy.

I should be putting on Discovery, but I keep getting an urge to put on some Pixies or MBV. Sad.

Strangely enough I've been listening to Surfer Rosa/Come on Pilgrim a lot these past days and again was blown away by how good they were (for the longest time that was my favorite album of all-time). Thoughts on their legacy though? Very little in fact. Nobody did it like they did, Nirvana certainly didn't have the humour or the elegance or for that matter Kim Deal ;)It's almost pointless to analyse why they did work since the parts seem so "normal", surely some msyterious alchemic process made them gel. They left 4 perfect albums, which is one of the reasons I won't bother with any B-Sides compilation.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more response to this one. Maybe people have been, ahem, KILLING time elswehere. Anyway here goes.

I have been listening to 'Doolittle' on and off for a week or so, after having ignored it and the rest of the Pixies work for a year or so. The article made me try to put them in context, and I don't really have a lot to add except to say that looking back they really were a one-off. Much has been made of the Nirvana 'loud-quiet' thing, but aside from that, none of the really unique things The Pixies did seem to have been adopted. Santiago's squalling, open guitar -(maybe Billy Corgan stole a little from that?) sounds as fresh as it did when I bought 'Come on Pilgrim' in 1988-ish.

Anyway back to 'Doolittle'. I've always thought that this was the Best album, not by much though.

I have to go - I'll post this and continue in another post.

Back to Doolittle. I used to regard side one as pretty much the archetypal 'perfect album side' in rock. The combination of the brutal beauty of the opening four cuts ('Debaser' through to 'I Bleed'), followed by the bubble-punk of 'Here Comes Your Man', back to bleeding ears with 'Dead'(this time with tricksy time-changes) and the epic single, 'This Monkey...' is almost overwhelmingly great.

Listening again, I still feel this way, but the genius of 'Doolittle' lies in the variety of 'side 2'. So much goes on here that I hadn't noticed before. The shivering, ghostly Kim Deal track 'Silver' would be great in any context, but between 'Hey' and 'Gouge Away' it's just perfect. The Pixies seem as close as they ever got to sounding intimate on this record - 'Hey', 'No.13 baby' - too.

The SOUND of 'Doolittle' is possibly even more odd than Albini's production on 'Surfer'. Miles of space between instruments, lots of echo, Deal's carefully plucked staccato bass seemingly flown in from somewhere else entirely. The huge snare sound is a little off-putting initially, but once you've tuned in to the whole thing it doesn't jar. Even wierder are the dual vocals of Deal and Francis. Again Kim sounds so detached, not just in the off-hand timbre of her voice but also in the way that her lines come up in funny places in the songs. Even when she sings in unison with Black Francis, little differences in timing just make the whole effect so unusual. It seems to me that no-one has tried to emulate or incorporate any of this post-Pixies.

As for influences on them - one odd one struck me during the intro to 'Mr. Grieves' - Pere Ubu. Francis sounds like David Thomas at the start of this track, and that got me thinking of other similarities.

Will I buy the B-sides? You bet. Will it be as good as the 'real' albums? No of course not, but I like this stuff. The BBC sessions is also fine, but again not essential.

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Even when she sings in unison with Black Francis, little differences in timing just make the whole effect so unusual. It seems to me that no-one has tried to emulate or incorporate any of this post-Pixies.

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Welllll...Royal Trux do that timing-thingy like no other band, esp. on Royal Trux 2 and Cats & Dogs. Anyway how did you all react when 'Bossanova' came out? I know I was disappointed at first, until I realized it was one of the great dope-smoking records, it all fell into place after that ;)

A propos of nothing: 'Here Comes Your Man' is my least favorite Pixies song, it's just too normal.

But boy am I glad they called it quits on time. And what about the Francis/Deal interplay, somehow it was necessary wasn't it? Witness his solo-stuff. I always was excited by the weird tension as if Francis' ego was pulling the band his way (of course they seemed to deliberatly feed that idea what with the YOU FUCKIN DIE interlude).

Kim certainly got the lions share of the acclaim post-split - does anyone remember an article (NME?) which was saying oh, their best songs were 'Gigantic' (i.e. the Kim song) and 'Winterlong' (a cover).

Frank Black's first two solo records are both glorious.

Bossanova was the first CD I'd ever been given as a present so I liked it a lot because of that. I didn't think it was as good as the other records though, and still don't. Half of it is awesome.

Wondered if Royal Trux would come along soon ;). Anyway I haven't heard the 2 albums you mentioned, Omar, but on 'Thankyou' their voices seem to meld together as one. I can't tell who's singing sometimes, which is exactly the opposite of what I was on about! Yes, I know I should get more RT!

Bossanova - I remember thinking that it was even better than Doolittle when it came out, although I can't really remember why. Looking back, whilst fantastic, it's probably the weakest of the albums. Kim seems to be less involved, which is bad. 'Down To the Well', 'Digging For Fire' and 'Velouria' seem to take the 'Doolittle' template and move it into a more conventional 'rock' direction, although still pretty unique. It's the only one I don't have on CD though, which means I don't play it as often. Need to pick up a used copy sometime.

Get those other albums, it's the effect you describe (if not an exact copy, because Kim Deal had just such a distinct voice that sometimes it would come out of nowhere, whereas Da Trux most of the times gloriously sing out of sync). By Hermes! I've forgotten to name-check Royal Trux on The Stones thread!! Oh well, there be plenty of possibilities ;)

I'm listening to 'Bossanova'at this moment, it's more of their space- album innit? Beautiful images though ("When the planet hit the sun I saw the face of Allison" - dude!). Actually in Holland the critical consensus says this is their masterpiece (mmm, look for the connection ;)

And Frank Black's albums. When he finally eclipsed Kim Deal I immediatly lost interest, never even tried the albums. The Breeders on the other hand I love as much as The Pixies, go figure.

The interesting thing about the Mojo piece was how little input Kim had. Co-writing one track and that was about it. So 'eclipsing' was never really a question.

And you'll forgive me for raising an eyebrow at dismissing FB's solo albums in one thread and then saying you've never tried them, Omar.

Well rest assured Tom, I've heard/seen the singles/video's. They didn't excite me. Another reason then I'm glad I didn't read that Mojo article, it suddenly becomes so clear how I was projecting my own imagination, desires and psychodrama's on the group. Actually, one of my college teachers who is from the Boston area knew The Pixies when they started out (he saw them play live about 60 times ;) He dismayed me with the observation that while Francis was a very likeable fellow, Kim Deal was one of the most horrible persons he ever met.

interesting thesis (the seinfeld of indie rock: "it's about nothing") and the very last bits intrigued me because you say it was nirvana putting emotion into punk that made it able to cross over. it sort of feels right to say this.

think of kim's bass playing: it's made up of disjointed steps, like the intro to debaser, it's abstract somehow, like a non sequitur.

you touched on the subject matter and francis' voice. it was abstract but that doesn't mean it was "arty" because i would say lots of warm sounding disco records were just as plastic soul as the pixies. and they are definitely plastic soul for us because when anyone from the generation that heard debaser when it came out, those chord changes really do make weird emotional things happen, good things, the same way the beatle's chord changes do too (whence i get the term plastic soul)

it was sort of the abstraction that killed the band: nobody could decide whether to kick kim out or what, nobody could decide what to do after they decided (with bossanova) not to follow up "here comes your man" with a pop record.

back to your thesis - basically you are saying they were like talking heads, they hit a brick wall because "burning down the house" with punk guitars will never be a big hit, and that's what they were doing. pixies riffs + husker du (or dinosaur jr or replacements or whatever "feeling" 80s punk you choose) = nirvana and success. i guess i don't buy that. what about my sharona? that could've been a pixies tune.

and weren't sabbath as blank as the pixies? and weren't the pixies just the ramones done better?

who knows...

Let me second Tom's admiration for the first couple of Frank Black albums, particularly 'Teenager of the year'. Are any of the rest any good, Tom?

The short answer: no.

The longer answer: look for "The Marsist" single for the best track off the third album. The first couple of Catholics records I've only heard once each, didn't enjoy. The current one I bought in a triumph of hope over experience - it's an OK altrock album, several good ideas but it doesn't gel for whatever reason. A shame.

Mitchel - thanks for the long and fascinating reply! I dont think I was trying to imply that the Pixies were entirely emotionless but as you say the emotional territory they cover is mostly through the curious effects of the music...certainly I feel something when listening to them, something very good, but nothing like empathy or whatever it is I feel when listening to a record that makes me 'emotional'. Hmm. I also think they could have had hits post- Nirvana, but not pre.

My thoughts on Frank Black's solo output, for what little they're worth: I actually really like Cult of Ray, perhaps even more than Teenager of the Year, which seems to go on a bit. I seem to be the only person in the world who does, though. Maybe it's because I got Teenager after the other two and was running low on patience by then; maybe I just liked the idea of naming an album after Ray Bradbury, embarrassingly geeky as that probably is. Still, I like the first album and it's generally agreed to be good, so that's probably a reasonable place to start.

I have Pistolero by the Catholics and it's rather disappointing. It didn't really grab my attention at all, unless you count thinking that some of the lyrics were really awful. I didn't even bother with the latest one after hearing the lead single from it, and while I quite liked the single from the first Catholics album I never bought it and probably never will. I didn't even make the effort to see him when he played here a month ago - I considered it but just ended up not going, and I think I'm glad, even if (or is that "especially if"?) he did play some Pixies songs. In fact, I probably do mean "especially if", for much the same reason that I'm not sure I actually want to watch the videos on the Pixies B-sides CD. Better to imagine them as being fantastically cool.

So, solo Frank Black: classic, Frank Black and the Catholics: probably dud, in my book. Oh, while I'm at it, search: "Hang On To Your Ego", "I Want To Live On An Abstract Plain", "The Marsist", "Men In Black". Destroy: "I Love Your Brain", "I Don't Want To Hurt You (Every Single Time)" - ugh. Even if I do inexplicably quite like the lines, "Now I'm falling apart under this lack of gravity / and my heart is just a muscle in a cavity / but it hurts so bad..."

Sorry to go on for so long and only vaguely relevantly.

Happy birthday, Tom, by the way. Not that you'll see this until too late, by quite some time.