Am I the only one that thinks that the Smiths/Morrissey deal was best at the intersection of "Strangeways..." and "Viva Hate"?

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I imagine I'm going to be pilloried for this, but fuck it. I'm convinced.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 13 August 2005 04:55 (twenty years ago)

The Smiths albums get progressively better, and Viva Hate might just be better than any of them, yes.

― The Specs in Your Soul Will Damn You to Hell (noodle vague), Saturday, 13 August 2005 04:59 (twenty years ago)

Noodle, you're going to make me pull out Swans if you're not careful.

I'm a bit confused by the title of the thread (and I mean this in a sincere, non-smart arse way). What is meant by intersection? Since there was no album in between those two separate albums (which are both mighty fine, IMO)...?

― The Spiderwebbed Wilderness (Bimble...), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:11 (twenty years ago)

I guess I'm thinking that the two albums are suprisingly similar to me, in a way that isn't really echoed in earlier Smiths so much, and certainly not in later Morrissey albums as well. I guess I'm just trying to draw the two together as sort of an insular bookended entity...one of those weird moments where the (supposedly) bitter solo album is more of a continuation than a rejection.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

What is meant by intersection? Since there was no album in between those two separate albums.

So they told us!

― Cunga (Cunga), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

Oh wait...you guys don't have the secret album?

I fear I have already said too much...

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

I heard the only people who have the Secret Album are the guys who let Morrissey touch their balls.

This is what I've heard.

― voltron 8080, Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:23 (twenty years ago)

i agree but there are morrisey solo / johnny marr with electronic singles to be proud of.
i got smith's"singles1 best of" and morrisey "viva hate" and "bona drag".is it worth getting smith cds ?

― teil nennant, Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:27 (twenty years ago)

I recommmending owning:

1)Anything and everything by the Smiths
2)Most things by Morrissey
3)Pretend "secret albums" that don't exist.

All I know is noodle has caused me to pull out Swans "New Mind" and I'm happier than a pig in slop. "The Sex In Your Soul Will Damn You To Hell/Damn You To Hell". That song is incredible. As is "Children of God", a landmark album for them, I feel.

Sorry, what were we on about then? This was a Smiths thread.

― Bat Penatar (Bimble...), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:48 (twenty years ago)

To bring it back together, the Swans - "Public Castration is a Good Idea" and Morrissey's avowed asexualism seem to occupy some sort of shared territory.

(Do we all like the Smiths/the Swans? What an odd common ground to discover...somehow I don't think this rings true with the majority of either band's fan base. Odd.)

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 13 August 2005 05:59 (twenty years ago)

It's Vini Reilly who makes the key contributions to "Viva Hate", and yes, Morrissey really is on top form too. Reilly's work is even greater than his similar appearance on John Cooper Clarke's "Snap, Crackle and Bop" album - another flowering of Mancunian poesy.

― Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 13 August 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

"Suedehead" is the pinnacle of Morrissey's work for me, Reilly outwriting/outplaying Johnny Marr and Moz's singing richer and wiser than anything he'd done previously.

― The Specs in Your Soul Will Damn You to Hell (noodle vague), Saturday, 13 August 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

"Late Night, Maudlin Street" is very much his "Beasley Street" panorama.

I like the sheer range of "Viva Hate"; from drum-machine Motown ("I Don't Mind If You Forget Me") to languid skiffle ("Little Man, What Now?") to Betjemanian ballad ("Everyday is Like Sunday") and so forth...

― Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 13 August 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

None of his subsequent solo albums have at all the sonic range of this one; and I speak as a great fan of "Vauxhall and I", but concede it is a narrower sounding record.

― Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 13 August 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

"suedehead" is the one song written by stephen street on that album i think.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Saturday, 13 August 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

Vini Reilly doesn't play guitar on 'Suedehead' (he thought the song was too cheesy, apparently). Stephen Street wrote all the music on Viva Hate.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 13 August 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

Okay I Am Big Idiot.

It's still great though.

― The Specs in Your Soul Will Damn You to Hell (noodle vague), Saturday, 13 August 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

I'm not a fan of Street's production on Viva Hate, and a few songs either go nowhere ("Angel, Down We Go Together," "Late Night, Maudlin Street") or go nowhere with a pretty melody ("Bengali in Platforms").

But "The Ordinary Boys" and "Break Up The Family" are two quite wonderful songs which never get props.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 13 August 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

I imagine I'm going to be pilloried for this, but fuck it. I'm convinced.

Hahahaha John, have you happened to stumble across any of my posts re: Strangeways?

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Saturday, 13 August 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

My best memory of Viva Hate: hanging out in my best friend's room, sneaking some bourbon, a day before our senior year of high school started. We were chatting up a storm until he played the second side of Viva Hate. "The Ordinary Boys" and "Break Up The Family" started to play, and we just shut up for about 10 minutes and listened.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 13 August 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

I will stump for Viva Hate...and Vini Reilly....and late nite maudlin st. as being a fucking epic for the ages.

but....i dunno, as much as i love the highs on strangeways (I AM THE GHOST OF TROUBLED JOE, etc etc) the lows on it really annoy me....

That Morrissey's Greatest Hits disc that Rhino put out a couple years ago is better than any Smiths record IMO.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 13 August 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

From best to worst:

Meat is Murder
Queen is Dead
Hatful of Hollow
Strangeways...
The Smiths
Louder than Bombs
Your Arsenal
Viva Hate
Bona Drag
You are the Quarry
Vauxhall and I
Kill Uncle
Southpaw Grammar
Maladjusted

― paulhw (paulhw), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:07 (twenty years ago)

Brought in to be the guitarist and keyboard player under producer Stephen Street, Vini found himself immediately unhappy at the situation: "I've no wish to criticise him [Street], but the songs that he had written, the chord structures were so banal and unbelievably trite that I said I would only make the album and be part of it if I could rewrite every note of every song from scratch." Amazingly, they agreed, although contractually Street had to keep his writing credits. Vini went through and re-arranged everything, deconstructing every track except single Suedehead. Vini found the experience incredibly enjoyable, even though it required learning a completely different recording discipline to one he was used to. "I enjoyed the challenge of it really. Some of them were so abstract that they barely existed and it was only when the backing track was completed and Morrissey came in and did his lyrics over the top of it and sang that you could tell where the verse and chorus were. Because up until that point the verse could have been the chorus and the chorus could have been the verse. There was no structure. And then I'd adjust the pieces to make them make sense."

(from 24 Hour Party People interview)

I love that "I've no wish to criticise him"

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

as much as i love the highs on strangeways (I AM THE GHOST OF TROUBLED JOE, etc etc) the lows on it really annoy me...

SO OTM. If only "A Rush And A Push..." had appeared on a completely different album.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:13 (twenty years ago)

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