"saying lee hazlewood is country is like saying..."

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

help me think of a good analogy. (it would help if you've heard a couple of hazlewood songs.)

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

the clash is world music

― Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Telly Savalas is Hip Hop.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

Johnny Cash is country.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:13 (twenty years ago)

Clay Aiken isn't gay.

― Voodoo Child, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:13 (twenty years ago)

the outthere bros. are klezmer

― strng hlkngtn, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

Saying Lee Hazlewood isn't country only highlights everything that's wrong with Nashville. Can we just compromise and call him western?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

nick cave is a folk singer

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

"country" yeah, but there's this obvious "well yes but" clause with hazlewood that most trad country singers don't have. he's informed by all this other oddball stuff that to just call him "country" would be a gross oversight.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

nick cave is a ~~folk~~ singer.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)

and by "trad country" singers (just for now) i include countrypolitan, contempo-nashville, etc.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

Sure, he's not just country but you could make a similar argument against calling him "pop." You seem to be assuming that the use of the word "country" is an insult.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

it is a limiting term, and most country artists seem to prefer it that way.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

it's funny though how with "pop" there are are significantly fewer stringent rules and experimentation is encouraged.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

Pop might well be the clippings from all the self-defensive genres.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:26 (twenty years ago)

it's funny though how with "pop" there are are significantly fewer stringent rules and experimentation is encouraged.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Certainly a lot of people use the word pop (or object to its use) as an insult in much the same way you're using the term country. Hazlewood doesn't really fit into country in the sense that he's not embraced by country fans but to me he fits loosely into a Californian tradition that includes Buck Owens, Nashville West, Gram Parsons, the Dead, Flying Burrito Bros, etc. Most of whom are not really recognized by the country establishment but if you played their music to an average pop fan they would say "what's this country shit?"

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

one thing i hate is how whenever there's a "crossover" country artist nowadays, their toe-dipping is always SUCH A BIG FREAKIN' DEAL (cough cough big & rich) rather than just the natural order of things outside of the dark ages.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:29 (twenty years ago)

if you played their music to an average pop fan they would say "what's this country shit?

average pop fans don't know much about the history of music and only associate country with a vague "twang" sound.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

x post

It's fair to say that it's not really honest to describe most of your list as "country" though, walter. I'm not saying that that's not a sorry state of affairs, cos obviously it is, but I thought that Jody's initial point was more about the way some people'll say "oh I love country" and then cite a crossover artist like Lee H rather than a purely "genre" example.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

haha as opposed to your knowledge of the history of country right jode? plz

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:34 (twenty years ago)

saying lee hazlewood is country is like saying whitey ford is a yankee

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

at various stores, hazlewood has been filed in either the oldies or lounge sections, but never country

― plain ol' jaxon (jaxon), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

xpost

at the risk of sounding pedantic...Buck Owens was totally embraced by country fans, he had a string of country chart hits as long as your tail (even though he recorded in Bakersfield, had a twangy lead guitar player etc). all this alt-country canon stuff is bogus.

oh and jody I couldn't agree more re: country crossover.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

It's fair to say that it's not really honest to describe most of your list as "country" though, walter.

Not exclusively country, no. I certainly wouldn't file Lee Hazlewood in the country section but saying that "Lee Hazlewood is not country" sounds like a denial of any sort of country influence in his music. It smacks of the silly and rigid authenticity games played when people determine who is or isn't "punk." It's pretty strange to then turn around and criticize country artists for being limiting and pop fans for being ignorant of musical history.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

at the risk of sounding pedantic...Buck Owens was totally embraced by country fans

Right. That was one of the examples on my list that was excluded by the use of the word "most" in the next sentence.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

but I thought that Jody's initial point was more about the way some people'll say "oh I love country" and then cite a crossover artist like Lee H rather than a purely "genre" example.

actually, that's not what i was getting at. my point was that if you've never heard lee hazlewood before and ask for a description and someone says "he's country," that doesn't even begin to tell the story. there are tons of country artists who fit perfectly neatly into the category, and good for them, but to my ears and in my mind lee hazlewood is first and foremost a weirdo trans-cultural pop-cowboy anachronism that only the 20th century could have churned out. and the cowboy thing has more to do with watching cigarette ads with cowboys in 'em than it does the genuine southwestern cattle-raising artifact.

(xpost: blount, why don't you just come up here and kill all the yankees yourself with your bare hands?)

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

Roy Orbison is really just the male Patsy Cline, wasn't he. but one's country and another is "oldies"

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

at various stores, hazlewood has been filed in either the oldies or lounge sections, but never country

exactly. especially lounge.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I can't think of the right analogy to complete the thread title, but Lee H. is qualitatively different from the other country-crossover stuff mentioned here. He's qualitatively different from most things. His stuff is space-age lounge country, martini country. It's playing dress-up with a wink. He really does have more in common with Gainsbourg than with, I don't know, Jim Reeves or whoever. He comes more directly from that swanky '60s pop tradition than any really identifiable country tradition.

xpost: And I think you just answered your own question, too: saying he's country is like saying the Marlboro Man is a cowboy.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

xpost: And I think you just answered your own question, too: saying he's country is like saying the Marlboro Man is a cowboy.

ding ding ding lock thread (please)

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

I guess I'm defining "country" as a quality rather than a strict genre. It's like saying that Johnny Cash is "rock & roll." I object to the idea that someone from Hollywood who learned about cowboys from cigarette ads is any less country than 90% of the people in Nashville.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

Hazlewood is more cowboy than country anyway, but "cowboy" here goes from Oklahoma to Phoenix (and ultimately to Sweden) by way of Duane Eddy rather than to Nashville by way of the Grand Ole Opry. Not surprising at all that it was Europe that dug his non-Nancy "cowboy" work more than the states did, but they went for that epic pop stuff much more. No wonder Link Wray moved there.

Saying Lee Hazlewood is country is like saying Jack Nitschze is rock and roll. You'll end up saying "yes, but..." a zillion times.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

saying lee hazlewood is country is like saying beck is rap

― plain ol' jaxon (jaxon), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

jody why don't you talk out of your ass about a genre you have no interest in or knowledge of?

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

next on ilx: geir hongro determines what's really miami bass

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

blount why don't you make sweeping blanket assumptions like "those ivory-tower northerners don't know nuthin' 'bout listnin' to no country"?

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

what the fuck do you know about my knowledge of country?

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

I think of the Marlboro Man more as Cavalier.

(Yeah, my "most" was meant to exclude Buck Owens, cos Bakersfield = oppositional country, I reckon.)

Sorry for misunderstanding yr point, JBR. In that case, I'll change my answer to "Chilly Gonzales is Hip Hop".

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

He really does have more in common with Gainsbourg

Cover connection!

http://www.stefankassel.com/images/LHSolution.jpeg
ihttp://www.gainsbourg.net/images/discography/une_heure_avec_serge_gainsbourg_1998.jpg

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

only what i've read on ilx jody! if this was posted as a 'comedy character' like garu g plz forgive me.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

some people'll say "oh I love country" and then cite a crossover artist like Lee H rather than a purely "genre" example.

Saying Lee Hazlewood is country is like saying Shania Twain is country

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) well i don't post on a lotta hip-hop threads either but that's mostly cause of all the "my hip-hop dick is bigger than your hip-hop dick" bullying that goes on there. (or did when i first got here.)

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

Saying Lee Hazlewood is country is like saying Shania Twain is country

that's a pretty high compliment. they're both out of their minds in the most delightful way.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

nick cave is a ~~folk~~ singer.

Step outside, Noodle.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:16 (twenty years ago)

Hazlewood is more cowboy than country anyway, but "cowboy" here goes from Oklahoma to Phoenix (and ultimately to Sweden)

Ahem... California?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:17 (twenty years ago)

x post

Hey, I don't dislike Nick Cave. He's country.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:19 (twenty years ago)

new york to east california, there's a new wave comin' i warn ya!

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:19 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I don't dislike Nick Cave. He's country.

They call it the "outback" though right?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:21 (twenty years ago)

In Nick's case, they call it the "suburbs".

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

this is a knoife

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

"You will pay for this"

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/227/21/tracypewpartn.jpg

"Bring it on, Barry Blue"

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:33 (twenty years ago)

tracey pew is a god

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:40 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

scott walker is pop

― buzza, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 22:08 (seventeen years ago)

Scott Walker was pop though.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 22:10 (seventeen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.