Rachel Stevens - 'I Said Never Again (But Here We Are)'

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aka IN YOUR FACE GOLDCRAPP you boring charlatans, THIS is what feisty glam schaffel pop should sound like!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

(there's a link on the 'So Good' thread)

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

I would be happy never to hear the words "feisty," "glam" and "schaffel" in my life again.

HMV refers to this song as "glamtastic."

This is the sort of thing which drives otherwise rational humans into the arms of Islamic extremism.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:12 (twenty years ago)

it's basically like a sped-up, more manic 'Some Girls'.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:14 (twenty years ago)

Not like Gillian Welch covering Morton Feldman, then.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

i haven't heard it, but here are my g/f's reflections:

"AMAZING!!!!!

siouxsie & the banshees goes disco

AND it is extremely rude its definitely about anal sex!

'I let you in my back door'

'Rough love so deceiving'

'you're my only weakness'

'I said never again...'"

phew

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:04 (twenty years ago)

It's a sort of rewrite of "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" really, innit?

I think I prefer Siouxsie going disco when it's Siouxsie doing the going, i.e. title track of Kish Kash.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has a touch of the Shakey about it Marcello, I'm sure you'd like it.

Downstairs@The Polar Bear, midnight tomorrow, then?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:11 (twenty years ago)

(hey marcello what do u think of 'jump' by the faders?)

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:14 (twenty years ago)

Not quite as good as "No Sleep Tonight" but better than "Since U Been Gone."

Tom, I meant: lyrically...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:17 (twenty years ago)

Yes I know! My "!!!!!!!!!!!" was hearing the song :)

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

i wonder whether this will 'break' stevens, and if not, what will happen. (a deal with mantra?)

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Presenting the next series of Animal Hospital?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

It's a kind of post-'Goody two shoes' Adam Ant solo single, isn't it?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:38 (twenty years ago)

There's a bit of the Ant about it, but post Goody Two Shoes he slowed down quite a bit. It is a little bit like "Friend Or Foe" but that's a good thing, it's his best solo record!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

i don't know *what* to expect now, because i have never knowingly heard an adam ant record.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:42 (twenty years ago)

not even the duet with john wayne?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)

good god(dard) man, where were you in the 80s? Adam Ant was my first favourite popstar icon I think, as in 'I wanna be like him!'.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:48 (twenty years ago)

ok, i have heard the pirate records, but can't remember them, and probably only heard them in about 2002. to be fair, adam ant was big when i was about three -- how was he your favourite pop star, stevem? i can't remember shit about the '80s.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:51 (twenty years ago)

Thatcher won the war against Ethiopian miners. Tarzan Boy was top of the pops except when it wasn't. There was no such thing as society, only Haysi Fantayzee.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:52 (twenty years ago)

the first record i ever bought was 'bad'.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

i can actually remember 'Stand And Deliver' being #1 and knowing that i liked it, even tho i was also merely 3 years old!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

It sounds rather dubious but I remember Bucks Fizz and Shakin' Stevens on TV round then as well. I keep wondering if these are just 'false memories' because you wouldn't think you would remember such things at just 3 years old would you?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:55 (twenty years ago)

i've never heard an adam ant record either, or a shakin' stevens one.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

I have a friend, born in march 1977, who says his mum took him to see star wars and he remembers it!

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Haysi Fantayzee's big hit was "John Wayne Is Big Leggy."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

maybe you just saw totp2 one time, stevem.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

adam ant records were like goldfrapp at 78 rpm with a bit of rolf harris mixed in, only better.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)

No NRQ I remember remembering this stuff long before TOTP2 showed up.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:05 (twenty years ago)

http://www.nexistepas.com/enthuse/images/2002/10/unicorn150.jpg

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

:-)

― Drowning Man (Barima), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:18 (twenty years ago)

is that a still from The Making Of 'Ooh La La'?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

it is a witty jibe!

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:25 (twenty years ago)

didn't witty jibe's become extinct cos they never made it on to the ark in time?

― Britain's Jauntiest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

i've never heard an adam ant record either, or a shakin' stevens one.

-- The Lex (alex.macpherso...), August 18th, 2005.

You've never been to a tacky '80's night anywhere??

By which I mean the first wave of retro-nostalgia, absolutely nothing to do with electroclash revisionism & excessive neon.

― fandango (fandango), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:40 (twenty years ago)

It's fantastic, but pretty much for every reason Goldfrapp is fantastic! I just find it so weird that Lex and other Brits around here are turning this into some kind of bizarre Coke Vs. Pepsi cola war.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

i have never drunk pepsi.

fandango -- djs in cheesy niteclubs don't always tell you what they're playing!

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

I still think if 'Ride A White Horse' was yet another track sitting on Rachel's unreleased album or it'd get way more love.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

that's probably true, stevem (i haven't heard it (pattern emerging here)).

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:49 (twenty years ago)

Quite frankly I don't think the dismissal of the extremely-similar new Goldfrapp record has anything to do with how it sounds or feels but everything to do with petty underdog boosterism and a childish contempt for the people being targetted by Goldfrapp's marketers. It's just really dumb and sad. But backlashes are very seldom based on intelligent reasons and sensible feelings, are they?

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

I mean, from the American perspective, Rachel Stevens and Goldfrapp are equally obscure and exotic and make more or less exactly the same kind of music.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:52 (twenty years ago)

er, yeah, rachel stevens and 19 management are the underdog here, matthew. 'sensible feelings'. jesus.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

I mean, from the limey perspective, ludacris and el_p are equally obscure and exotic and make more or less exactly the same kind of music.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

I still think if 'Ride A White Horse' was yet another track sitting on Rachel's unreleased album or it'd get way more love.

-- Sociah T Azzahole

yeah, but if Rachel farted in the studio it would get called a brave attempt at ambient pop on ILM.

― fandango (fandango), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:54 (twenty years ago)

Well, from the things Alex has said, it would imply that the critical favor is overwhelmingly in favor of Goldfrapp, whereas Stevens has a hard time getting much respect at all.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

Goldfrapp are getting hated because the single is awful and utterly predictable and they haven't had the good sense to leak the full record widely to give people anything else to chew on. So they're assuming the worst (maybe rightly, who knows).

― fandango (fandango), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

that's not my recollection of 'more more more'.

xpost

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:57 (twenty years ago)

That's nonsense, though - there really is very little similarity between Ludacris and El-P. This Rachel Stevens song (and several others) may as well just BE Goldfrapp.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:57 (twenty years ago)

The Goldfrapp single is predictable, but it's definitely really really good. You're all taking crazy pills on that score.

The album's leaked, what are you complaining about?

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

'Ride A White Horse' is the best (only decent) thing on the new Goldfrapp album.

lots of Rachel singles get no love on ILM because half of them are crap. this is really not about anything other than 'Ooh La La' is embarrassing and boring while 'I Said Never Again' is a monster.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 21 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

knowingness v opverwhelming confidence

― Britain's Jauntiest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 18 August 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

I think both RS and GA still have problems re 'charisma'. They've got to sass it more. Looking moody in their pants on it's own won't quite do.

As with a lot of hip-hop though, I find that 'appreciating the production' thing comes into play a lot with this stuff, as some sort of consolation for finding their messages really boring.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

i think what RS is doing in the videos is more complicated than that (it suggests to me 19 not knowking what to do with her -- 'negotiate' was almost kind of imbruglia territory, as a video (relatively dowdy); 'so good' back to standard sex kitten bidnizz -- but crucially not looking moody). but otm.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

People still seem to have a lot of difficulty with the whole 'making pop for adults' thing which I feel more and more includes RS and GA who I'm convinced really don't appeal to girls under 15 much at all - partly because as ever they're more interested in boys but also the 'sophistication' of the production, reference points etc. all seem more designed to an older *but not necess. wiser) audience (and not just gay men anymore either).

Am I completely wrong to assert that RS and GA are really not that popular with young girls though? Because this is the vital crux really.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

Just read this thread and I'll say the descriptions of the song sound neat -- must hear this and the new Franz F...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Just compare them to Spice Girls, B*Witched and Billie for example, or indeed old S Club. The difference feels so seismic. I don't think kids and teenagers have changed that much in ten years but perhaps the aforementioned acts all really destroyed the market for more conventional, bouncy teen-pop by being so bloody good at it?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Well Steve, when I went and saw GA live did I feel more like

i) a clued-up adult pop consumer who had made a choice to enjoy sophisticated pop and disdain notions of authenticity and musical auteurism?

ii) a sad old perv?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

the market thing is key. when 'sweet dreams my la ex' came out (which i don't like), i was like, this is for men my age, but while they'll buy rachel in fhm they won't buy this record -- and it felt too grown-up for teh kids (who all like the killers anyway). the video for 'some girls' with the naffsville 'exercise' stuff seems aimed at late-20s women, 'more more more' back to fhm, 'negotiate' back to women. 'so good' is harder to pin down, as a video, because the moodiness is gone.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:16 (twenty years ago)

everyone in my office says i only stand up for girls aloud because i fancy them, and that they're the worst band ever.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

GA live were brilliant btw. But most of the audience were still very young girls.

Steve M OTM with the marketing frothy dance-pop to (straight) adults conundrum.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

It's because I talk about GA only to people in roughly the same age group as me that I assume we are the target audience, ha.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

i have difficulty imagining how people in their mid-20s could have enjoyed britpop. i liked it, but i was 14! maybe it's like that.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

people in their mid-20s appear to enjoy franz ferdinand, the killers, hard-fi, bloc party et al these days...

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:33 (twenty years ago)

I'd just like to see a list of Smash Hits readers favourite pop songs of the 00s vs ILM's, to compare. I'd be really curious to see if 'Some Girls' or 'No Good Advice' figure in the former and if so where.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

yeah. maybe i'm being too harsh on the britpop lot, though at least the nwonwonw bands have things like basslines and grooves and that.

for smash hits readers, 'no good advice' is going to be ancient history, isn't it? the concept of a poll of records from a five-year period is intrinsically post-adolescent?

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Of course you're right, I do wish there was a better way of being able to measure the true popularity of this stuff among younger listeners. I suppose gig attendance really is the best barometer here though.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

DUDE RINGTONES.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

No, really, I give a shit about ILM.

― Louis Walsh, Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

I WAS going to say that but wasn't quite sure if it wasn't distorting things too much. Probably not.

xpost

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

aren't you folks missing the "fact" McFly are the biggest selling pop group at the moment? McFly = britpop as boyband?

― jive session (elwisty), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

Ringtones still seem too frivalous in a way, the ease of obtaining them, the fact that good pop songs often make for terrible ringtones and vice versa (though of course many may not care and just want a McFly ringtone regardless of how it sounds). Attending a concert still feels like a bigger sign of 'devotion'.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

I think the McFly fact isn't so relevant because they're CUTE BOYS so will of course be popular with young girls, plus they don't have the same appeal with the older crowd do they (even though quite a few people on ILM liked Busted)?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

WOOOOOO! great

― Britain's Jauntiest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 18 August 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

(i mean i'm listening to the song at last)

― Britain's Jauntiest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 18 August 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

xpost

i like mcfly they are sufficiently beatles-y to satisfy my unavoidable rockist needs but suitably pop to be anti-rockist

see what i doing

― secondhandnews, Thursday, 18 August 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

i listened to 'kings of the wild frontier' -- not a mistake i'll be making again.

― Enrique, naked in an unfamiliar future where corporations run the world... (Enri, Thursday, 18 August 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

that track is great you evil bastard.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 18 August 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

I like it but I'm not crazy about this song. Maybe it's because it reminds me to "The Beautiful People", maybe it's the chord change on the chorus. To me "So Good" was perfect, this is a bit wierd, maybe a grower.

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 18 August 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

Predicatbly great, though vintage era Status Quo was the first thing I thought of rather than Adam and the Ants.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 18 August 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

I was about to post QUO! That initial gtr riff!

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 18 August 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

"I like it but I'm not crazy about this song. Maybe it's because it reminds me to "The Beautiful People", maybe it's the chord change on the chorus. To me "So Good" was perfect, this is a bit wierd, maybe a grower."

I haven't listened to "I Said Never Again" yet, but I find this comparison telling - "The Beautiful People" really is a "repressed" ground for the existence of this whole glam-schaffel revival movement. I think it's one of the only "schaffel" tracks that Felix Da Housecat ever plays live!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 18 August 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

did heavy stereo die in vain?

― N_RQ, Friday, 19 August 2005 07:23 (twenty years ago)

I posted Quo half the thread ago, it's the guitar riff that does it.

In terms of feeling like a sad old perv, All Saints records I always thought appealed to adults as much as the kids, they always seemed to have a certain sophistication about them at least compared to whatever else was around at the time. I surprisingly got persuaded into going to one of their gigs in Glasgow. Thought it wouldn't be too bad in terms of adults being there, but no there was us two 20 something men and a whole bunch of 10 year olds with their Mums. Did feel slightly uncomfortable it has to be said.

― mms (mms), Friday, 19 August 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

'the beautiful people' as in by marylin manson??

― spontine (cis), Friday, 19 August 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

yuh-huh

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 19 August 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

I was a real pain on this thread yesterday!

― fandango (fandango), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Thought it wouldn't be too bad in terms of adults being there, but no there was us two 20 something men and a whole bunch of 10 year olds with their Mums.

If we're going to turn this into an Out Of Place At Pop Shows thread (and why not), then this is where I bring up the time I went to go see the Scissor Sisters at the Troubadour in West Hollywood. NB: I am straight.

― James.Cobo (jamescobo), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:35 (twenty years ago)

christ this thread is so fucking british

― bugged out, Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

did anyone ever figure out why rachel stevens never became a major star?

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

Drives me nuts, this.

― Safe Boating is No Accident (G00blar), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

absolutely no personality, some boring songs.

― Bone Thugs-N-Harmony ft Phil Collins (jim), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:39 (seventeen years ago)

This single is fairly cracking, tho. (I somehow doubt Lex is still of this opinion)

― William Bloody Swygart, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:46 (seventeen years ago)

no, i still like it, though really the entire rachel stevens episode is slightly embarrassing. how did such a rubbish pop star end up with such a good album.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:48 (seventeen years ago)

- come and get it
- some girls
- sweet dreams my l.a. ex
- so good
- i said never again but here we are

all world-beaters

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:59 (seventeen years ago)

-negotiate with love

― Safe Boating is No Accident (G00blar), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:03 (seventeen years ago)

did anyone ever figure out why rachel stevens never became a major star?

Boring pop star, no personality, as Jim says. But also the S-Club era was just before pop became 'cool' again and she'd spent too long in the wilderness as a lad's mag staple so girls didn't really like her, blokes were embarrassed to admit to liking her, and kids didn't care. Textbook example of how to be a really famous pop star and still have a failed pop career.

The inevitable Strictly Come Dancing cash-in comeback single will probably relaunch her fairly successfully though.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:20 (seventeen years ago)

Well Steve, when I went and saw GA live did I feel more like

i) a clued-up adult pop consumer who had made a choice to enjoy sophisticated pop and disdain notions of authenticity and musical auteurism?

ii) a sad old perv?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:15 PM (3 years ago)

Haha.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:22 (seventeen years ago)

The average age of the audience at this year's GA gigs at the O2 will be about 30 I reckon. How times change.

― Jeff W, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:27 (seventeen years ago)

saw the pussycat dolls at the O2 last night and it was a bizarrely mixed crowd. like, not just the expected tweens & gays.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:29 (seventeen years ago)

The inevitable Strictly Come Dancing cash-in comeback single will probably relaunch her fairly successfully though.

Don't see that happening, tbh - she only came second, and Alesha's kind of got that avenue sewn up for the moment.

― William Bloody Swygart, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:30 (seventeen years ago)

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