Hey rock critics, how big of a role do publicists play in whether or not you'll listen to an artist?

But looking at other shit bands that have PR it seems that they'll get you into magazines easier.

Do you have any that you are looking at to work with?
I'm looking for a good one too for my next release.

As a musician, I've learned this so far:
a) publicists WILL get you reviews
b) reviews alone* WILL NOT sell your cds

*even ecstatic ones

Does. Not. Work.

Writers know which PR companies are real and which are not. (Hint: the real ones send you an email every couple of weeks promoting SEVERAL bands)

- if you are going to do it yourself, then don't just send shit out blindly.
- have a reasonable marketing plan AND strategy. if you don't know what that is, educate yourself
- consider that you have to market yourself to a PR company; don't just assume that if you cut them a check that they will be an avid member of your team.

xpost

Well, trueish, but I get stuff from companies I've never heard of all the time - they've just nicked my address off another PR buddy.

Spot-on re: targetting the right hacks tho - another bloody dreary indie band, I do not want.

Annoying publicists ring you all the time about very ordinary bands.

Yes, there are some publicists whose envelopes I can guess are always likely to contain something at least of passing interest; and others where you can guarantee it'll be 90% tedious crap.

the point: learn which is which, and choose who to work for you accordingly!

Example. There's this PR guy who mostly represents horrible screamo bands. By some sort of fluke, he also did PR for a Namelessnumberheadman album -- which I loved, personally lobbied to get into Pitchfork's Best New Music section, etc. Ever since then, I am buried under piles of screamo and the guy won't take a fucking hint.

None whatsofuckingever. (Though I may be more likely to actully *get* some records if a publicist sends them to me. But the ones sent by publicists are given no priority at all over the ones sent to me by the bands themselves. And this is OTM: "a good rule of thumb is that the more the publicist annoys me the less likely i am to bother.")

I need these things in 200 words or less:

- General movie-pitch description of the act's sound, without using the Beatles, the Stones, the VU, or the Beach Boys.
- is this act going to tour, will the tour be extensive, and will they play my town
- have you sent me the advance already or not / can I please send you an advance

strongo OTM.

Hi JESS HARVEY!

I just got back from a MUCH-NEEDED VACATION in the Swiss Alps! Lemme tell you, those folks know their CHOCOLATE and how!

On your desk is the new AFI! It's a bold departure from their GOTH PUNK BEGINNINGS, and features a guest appearance by FERGIE OF THE BLACK EYED-PEAS! ROLLING STONE gave it FIVE STARS! Let me know what you think! Or send me your phone number so we can talk about MUCH-NEEDED VACATION! I'm gonna go get me some SUSHI and a COLD BEVERAGE! Hugs!

Well, if it depends whether your band seems like it might suck. If your band looks like it might be good, why *wouldn't* somebody listen to it?

>can I please send you an advance<

Completely useless question. Just send me the damn thing. Send me anything you want. Why would I tell you not to? How do I know if I'd want it until I hear it? Just don't expect me to like it, okay? (That way, if I do, and I often do, it will be a pleasant surprise for all.)

Sometimes! I like colorful pictues of obscure animals. But I also read -- well, ok, skim -- press releases (which can be handwritten on a piece of loose leaf paper, for all I care). If you compare yourself to Herman Brood and his Wild Romance, I guarantee I'll listen. (Heck, even if you opened a show for them once, I probably will. Unless I'm really busy that day.)

SNAP

Oh, we do perform on a regular basis, just not beyond the pacific northwest. Also, we all have full time jobs, and we like to write and record a lot - to the point where we don't like taking big long breaks to devote to PR. And we're already doing everything ourselves as it is - I think we'd be delusional to believe that we could take on the role of a publicist on top of everything else.

This is all great information you all are giving me, BTW. Thanks again.

LISTEN TO MY BAND IT ROXORZ

Though I do listen to a lot of what Forced Exposure sends me, I guess. But still not everything - maybe, oh, 75 percent of it or so.

>Girlie Action, Fanatic (sometimes), Tag Team, Motormouth, Hopper, Regenerate, 2:30 and Blueghost[are] all prone to the odd stinker every once in a while<

understatement of the year. but most of them do send something OK now and then. (actually, i pay very little attention to who sends what.)

xpost

Well, since you asked - Pinback, XTC, Tahiti 80, Pernice Bros, 20 Minute Loop, Dolour, Of Montreal, Kings of Convenience, and Stars are a few bands that we might sound like at times.

Also, Scott Seward OTM--hey flacks STOP SENDING ME ALL YOUR Z-LIST SHIT AND MAKE ME BEG FOR THE A-LIST STUFF YOU KNOW I WANT.

-- CharlieNo4 (starsandheroe...), August 18th, 2005.

is this in reference to Mute or 4AD?

And the DIY'ers hardly ever hit me with e-mail.

On the other hand, I get an ocean of e-mail from pro-PR people every week, far far far in excess of the actual CDs they promote, which they quite frequently decline to send.

And they seem to work under the impression that I like getting promo e-mail and that I will be hypnotized into buying the CD of their client or stealing one to write about ecstatically.

i'll add rooftop to the list of good pr firms...and they never oversend and are very polite in their follow-up. and howling wuelf is just grand.

i get tired of some pr people from certain places sending several emails a day despite the fact that i've never replied to them, much less reviewed something from them.

"Dear semi-legendary UK electro/pop/industrial/goth label, why do you always send me emails about your releases when you never have enough press copies to send me one? fuck me it's annoying... "

goddammit yes!!! i can think of another label that does that too.

i never get phone calls, but a friend who plays review editor for a glossy rock mag says he does...and thats gotta be pure hell.

chuck and others: what do you guys do with the 8x10 glossy shots that a certain label always sends (hell, sometimes i get enveloes with just a one sheet and glossy photo)? i used to keep them thinking i'd find something fun to do..but never did.

why would you expect them to "say" anything when they get 50 CDs in the mail every day? if you sent it, you should assume they got it, period. "did you get the CD i sent?" is one of the most annoying questions on earth, believe me, especially when several people ask you the same thing every day, and your answer for every one of them is "i don't know, doesn't ring a bell, i get hundreds of CDs every week, but if you sent it, i probably got it. if you want, you can send another one, just in case. just don't follow up next time, okay?"

I didn't say it was a rational urge Chuck. I'm sure it's annoying. But you know, you send out a record that you put alot of time into, that's your litte baby and it's hard not to want to follow up on it. It's like how you might keep calling the girl that doesn't call you back in high school, even though you know it's just making things worse, dig?

Also, I think the whole touring thing looks a lot easier when you're in the thick of it than when you're trying to figure out how it works and schedule vacations and then your drummer goes into the hospital and oops. But anyway.

Maria - you may change your mind after you graduate.

I like the guys in my band like family, but if I've got a week or two off I'll be damned if I'm going to spend it in a smelly van with them.

I much prefer some sunny locale with my wife & kid.

There's always a pure glee of "I told ya so" for indie bands who've been bossed around and given the bum's rush by their local peers when they score a review in such a manner. It doesn't have to be tied to a specific goal of -MUST GET BAND, arghh, puff, puff, to sell and tour and pretend to look pro!"

Ah, the desperation that sets in after 3 years in a band.

When we HAVE gotten press, what usually worked was just being nice and communicating directly with the writer.

this could be accomplished by touring.

A publicist can only advance certain components of your exposure and thus, the impact on your career should be evaluated along those lines. If all you're doing is trying to validate your efforts in the studio, there might be better ways of spending your money.

Just don't hire that heathcliff guy

blecch, this guy seems like a real piece of work

don't worry, he'll be hired somewhere else soon enough

http://www.thefader.com/2016/01/19/life-or-death-pr-founder-sexual-harassment
he owns the company. this looks like a PR move to figure what to do next unless he's selling the company.

don't worry, he'll be hired somewhere else soon enough

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Tuesday, January 19, 2016 5:34 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://twitter.com/motormouthmedia

^^^lots of info about this from here via retweets

The definition of horseshit, right here:

http://www.laweekly.com/music/music-publicist-heathcliff-berru-issues-statement-regarding-sexual-harassment-allegations-6500546

Good responses so far:

http://www.imposemagazine.com/bytes/chatter/heathcliff-berru-and-other-missing-stairs

http://www.bkmag.com/2016/01/20/heathcliff-berrus-bullshit-apology-is-not-enough-to-address-the-industry-wide-issue-of-sexual-assault/

good lord, that new brooklyn mag story. what a piece of work this guy is.

more details:

http://jezebel.com/how-women-on-twitter-brought-down-a-music-publicist-acc-1753964374

furthermore
http://www.thefader.com/2016/01/20/life-or-death-publicists-announce-mass-exodus-and-start-of-new-venture

linked within that article
http://theindustryaintsafe.tumblr.com/

A new article on Berru's victims, associates, the larger process of reporting and speaking out, and an interview with Berru himself.

http://www.bkmag.com/2016/02/26/aftermath-and-recovery-heathcliff-berru-speaks-and-reporting-on-sexual-assault-in-the-music-industry/

ugh how about we just put an end to the music industry

I have a question for the music writers in the room.

Generally speaking, I work like this:
- get thousands of emails from publicists
- listen to stuff, like something, pitch an idea to a publication
- reach out to publicist if an interview is needed or to request lyrics/credits, etc.
- try to remember to send 'em a link when it publishes

In many years of doing this, I have almost never discussed potential publications/outlets and/or where to pitch with publicists BEFORE pitching. I don't necessarily feel anti that, it just has never crossed my mind.

Do other writers have these kinds of conversations with publicists? Or do you do it like I've always done it?

I mostly do as you describe in the first half of your email. There have been a half dozen or so occasions when a publicist has said to me, "We're talking to [PUBLICATION] about a feature on [BAND/ARTIST]" and I have said "Oh, cool, I like [BAND/ARTIST] — if [PUBLICATION] expresses real interest, feel free to suggest that they give me the assignment." But it's always been a publication I'm already contributing to on a semi-regular basis, and it's never actually come to fruition that I can remember.

first half of your *post*

ok ... i suddenly wondered if other people might be doing something like this on the regular:

"wow, this is great. i'll pitch to X and maybe Y or Z if X doesn't work out"
"thanks! just FYI, we already have something confirmed at X, but Z would be great. Z would actually be better than Y for Artist because blah blah blah"
"oh, OK, well i'll pitch Z then"

NOTE: i can see how knowing about confirmed coverage at X would be helpful. i'm talking more about the general back-and-forth.

thanks unperson, the situation you describe has never actually come to fruition for me, either, and i've tried it a couple times.

as a publicist, i can say I'd love to have that conversation with a writer. Or frankly ANY conversation with a writer! Even with people I know personally, everyone's too flooded/busy/distracted/unengaged for me to talk more about individual shows. More often, I send stuff out, then there's coverage. Nobody has the time!

Totally hear/understand that. Someone said on Twitter not long ago they're rather hear a "pass" than nothing.

I am definitely guilty of remaining totally silent about shit I don't care about. But this week I did give a publicist a definitive "No," in the process of saying "Yes" to something else:

I have no place to review a solo bass record, and really no interest in listening to one if I'm not being paid to do so.

xp, i would love to get straight up no's. For the record, my clients get frustrated when I say no one's biting and they ask who's told me no and i have to say "no one!" But then pieces do get published and press happens among some of the people that I've been pollinating. I get the sense that we're being effective but it's increasingly hard to get anyone to communicate. The reasons are obvious, everybody in media having to do three jobs being the biggest one. The lead jazz writer at NYT also writes politics for them for crissakes; that's a new way for them to do business!