"Is Basquiats artwork good or bad"

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How many poeple think that basquiats artwork is bad?

Why do you think it's bad art?

Do you agree or disargee with the fact that he is or isn't a 'great artist'?

― Anitra Ashante' Wilson, Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

he's baaad.

― The King's English (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

I think he's Bad4Good

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

Bad meaning bad or bad meaning good?

― pappawheelie II, Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

he's no keith haring!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

How many poeple think that basquiats artwork is bad?

Over 600 in a recent survey.

― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Crappers... not loading any more.

'Ere:

― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

I am not a big fan.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

moderator, please move this thread to ILE, unless we are gonna talk about basquiats band.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Basquiat = great.

I was only converted after seeing his paintings in person. On screen or in a book they just aren't the same.

― Andrew Peterson (ANDER), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

http://musicsojourn.com/AR/Alt/img/v/va/AVerySpecialChristmas/AVerySpecialChristmas1_300.jpg

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)

I was only converted after seeing his paintings in person. On screen or in a book they just aren't the same.

http://www.vpr.net/gfx/news/phish_pellett2.jpg

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

word is he had almost nothing, or nothing, to do with the music on Beat Bop, but he did play with Gray.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

Or:

http://www.valsehot.com/wolfeyesphoto1.jpg

― Andrew Petereson (ANDER), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

he's no keith haring!

thank god.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

I love Basquiat. So much so that I named my business after him.

Speaking of which, if yall need to press CDs or 12" vinyl, check out SAMO media.

www.samomedia.com

― pppp, Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

Basquiat is great.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

I'm with Spencer. Certainly Basquiat was a lot less interesting than tons of far less lauded graffiti artists. Actually maybe they are lauded now.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

I just admore his films!

― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

xpost

like who? futura?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

I cannot help but adore~~just admore~~ his films!

― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

Haha okay maybe I just think they are more lauded cuz their stuff is displayed at the Future Primitives store (or whatever it is called) on Lower Haight. That's probably not representative of any sort of wider recognition.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

All that '80s graffiti gallery shit lost its sheen really quickly... Dondi, Lee, Doze, etc.

Meanwhile Twist is showing at Deitch with stuff selling for tens of thousands.

― Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

ain't that the truth! most of the stuff = only interesting on the side of a train. basquiat gets more interesting the further he gets from graffiti - he just had a MOCA show (NY/LA) and i was surprised that i was most impressed by the painted work towards the end of the show, and not the graffiti-like work.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

Twist is fucking amazing though, I barely even think of most of his work (gallery work) as coming from a graffiti tradition. I guess it does but it isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I look at it now.

I like Basquiat.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

grandmaster flash dj'ed the reception for the basquiat show in LA, and though i generally don't really care what he thinks, he managed to slip in that he thought basquiat was as much ground-zero for hip-hop as the dj/mc thing. he said something (can't remember the exact wording) about basquiat being the first urban american artist to recognize the power of iconic repetition in graffiti art and how to connect it w/ the wider world of studio art.

i think it's a pretty good, though i'd almost be more inclined to think basquiat is ultimately a bigger deal in graphic design / product design than in fine art (i guess to follow that point you'd have to ignore the race/class dimension of his work)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

yeah, reas/twist/espo do some good stuff, esp if you look at it as exercises in product and character design - but i can't help wonder if they've fallen into a niche as restrictive as street graffiti.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

I completely agree Vahid. Basquiat's paintings are far more intersting...

― Andrew Peterson (ANDER), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

"grandmaster flash dj'ed the reception for the basquiat show in LA, and though i generally don't really care what he thinks, he managed to slip in that he thought basquiat was as much ground-zero for hip-hop as the dj/mc thing."

I think this is a pretty hard sell frankly.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

hmmm i guess i should add that he was trying to say something like

grandmaster flash : current hip-hop music technique, sampling, etc

basquiat : current hip-hop style / fashion / streetwear

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Haha you could make a pretty compelling argument that in both cases neither has had very much lasting influence though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

i don't think that's true - they certainly don't dominate - but there's still a nation of millions of backpackers out there.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:08 (twenty years ago)

Andrew Peterson OTMFM.
Also:

"Everybody in the band knew Basquiat," says Calogero. "We went to school with him when we were kids. One night he shows up at a gig we were doing with an amp and a guitar and says he wants to play with us, but dude couldn't play the guitar! He says he's gotta because he needs to meet a girl to hook up with so he's got a place to sleep for the night. So we let him sit it. I don't even think he plugged in the amp; he just sat there and acted like he was playing. Sure enough, he picked up some chick at the bar afterwards and took off." (Pablo would later record a song for the soundtrack of Basquiat's film Downtown 81.)

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

i think he was utterly amazing particularly the painting on found objects (doors, windows, fences) and the way he developed his own iconography which was just some kind of synthesis of american culture at the time. totally brilliant.

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Yeah okay I guess the Flash lineage there makes sense there (and the ol skool Sugarhill/Flash stuff does occassionally get mined even in less backpacker circles), but the sense I get of the style/fashion/etc of those millions of backpackers seems decidedly less-Basquiat-influenced than that. But I only know Basquiat from the movie and a couple of museum visits so maybe I'm missing something.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

The retrospective in Brooklyn really won me over. Not everything he does is great and there were whole rooms of stuff there that was easy to dismiss, but when it hits, it's like seeing the work of a master.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)

Is this a travelling restrospective? You guys have got me curious now.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

it was at the brooklyn museum and now it's at moca in la until 10/10. too bad it's not coming to sf.

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

Grrr.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

after los angeles it goes to houston, tx.

xpost, yeah, i know. i might just drive down to la though.

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

I should do an LA museum trip at some point. I just can't get over the LA part of that sentence haha.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

what else is worth seeing there museum-wise?

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

LA is a GREAT museum/gallery town!

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

I think Sf is too, for its size. But we don't get Basquiat. We get Richard Tuttle.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

roffle!!!

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

The Getty, MOCA, LACMA. I think there are more. Help LA people!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

alex - i guess what i am saying is the repetition element is key. you're right, outside of tokyo not too many kids are doing the boho dandy tramp look.

but when you look at street style - the way things like nigo's BAPE logos and ape heads have turned into this unstoppable brand, the way three or four dudes in new york have created a worldwide mania for any old backpack, cap or shirt with "Supreme" written on it - that's all coming from basquiat.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

I see you must have been to the Tuttle retrospective, tricky.

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

xpost

museum of jurassic technology

one million random galleries stretching from santa monica to west hollywood

jsoulja to thread ...

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

SF will be a better museum town when our museums ACTUALLY reopen.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:40 (twenty years ago)

i haven't been to the tuttle, and i doubt i will go. sfmoma's been kind of lame lately.

xpost, no shit. the deyoung is going to be cool i bet.

― tricky (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

so what the hell does gray sound like anyway?

― Fetchboy (Felcher), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

I think you're all missing the point. Anitra Ashante' Wilson has a term paper to write...

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

That was my first instinct, yes.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:59 (twenty years ago)

Anitra, Basquiat is best known for his Madonnas and for his large figure compositions in the Vatican in Rome. His work is admired for its clarity of form and ease of composition and for its visual achievement of the Neoplatonic ideal of human grandeur.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)

No dude, the Vatican is in Greece.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, my mistake. Also be sure to note how his focus on the Rubenesque female form influenced later artists and the subsequent backlash from modern-day artists as regards his nascent antisemitism.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

I don't care for his grand manneristic gestures. But his portraiture was quite subtle.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)

I always wondered if his affair with Frida Kahlo might have rubbed off on his work a little.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

He's a terrible painter, one who just rehashes all the 70s/80s neo-expressionist cliches and his grafitti was just his way of courting the galleries. People consider him authentic because he paints "primitively" and throws up all sorts of vague references to black hertiage and his, but it's nothing very exceptional. He only got the attention he did because the galleries were so enamored with this young black gifted savage from "the streets," who was so appealing to the radical chic art world. What most dealers neglect to mention was that he was well-raised, his mother worked in fashion, and that he disdained working with any of the established black artist communities in New York in favor of the more monied downtown scene. His connections to hip-hop were tenuous at best.

― docdoooom, Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

"columbia.edu"

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

it matters not whether his artwork was good or bad. what matters is that he was a bad person. like mike gordon from phish.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

At the MOCA show I thought some of the drawings were the most interesting and powerful. I love the pieces with tons of overlaid layers of text and meaning but you don't see those too often. The more "painterly" big paintings are kind of boring and the really early simple graffiti stuff is not so interesting either.

I think it's strange to try to relegate his importance to mere graphic design. That's almost like arguing that hip-hop is good poetry but not really music.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

i don't think that's true - they certainly don't dominate - but there's still a nation of millions of backpackers out there.

-- vahid (vfoz...), August 24th, 2005.

it takes a nation of millions to pack our backs

― latebloomer's rectal mocha latte (latebloomer), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

What most dealers neglect to mention was that he was well-raised, his mother worked in fashion, and that he disdained working with any of the established black artist communities in New York in favor of the more monied downtown scene. His connections to hip-hop were tenuous at best.

-- docdoooom (mmw200...), August 25th, 2005.

So you're implying that since he's not "savage" or "authentic," his work is, in fact, not that good.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

oh snap

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

his mother worked in fashion

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

I think it's strange to try to relegate his importance to mere graphic design

no, that's not what i'm getting at - just that in terms of "his influence", by which i mean current artists reaching back and raiding the basquiat techniques stash, i'd say he's much bigger in american graphic design than in fine art.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

"well-raised"

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

walter, my favorite painting was the one on the bright blue background - it had two figures talking to one another, except their words (which were painted on the panel) had been covered by enlarged text that looked like it had been clipped from newspapers.

there was some sort of "danger!" signs motif going on too, though i sort of forget without the painting in front of me.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

just that in terms of "his influence", by which i mean current artists reaching back and raiding the basquiat techniques stash, i'd say he's much bigger in american graphic design than in fine art.

I suppose that's a pretty uncontroversial observation and the same could probably be said for many famous artists. Young painters aren't directly borrowing from Picasso much anymore for example. I just don't think that lack of influence makes Basquiat any less of a painter.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 01:36 (twenty years ago)

Heard that he had a big dick.

― maria b (maria b), Thursday, 25 August 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

"Basquiat and the Semiotics of Aural Creation:
The Subjunction of the Ovewhelming Phallic Principle
And Effecting Neoplatonic Ideas"
by Anitra Ashante' Wilson

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 August 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

"mere" graphic design...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 25 August 2005 02:39 (twenty years ago)

WHERE IS THE MUSIC

BRING BACK THE MUSIC

― BURRITO, Thursday, 25 August 2005 02:41 (twenty years ago)

Basquiat Salutes Music

That album cover, for instance is a good fuckin' painting.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 August 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

i dont know how i feel, i never really liked him, and hated him for awhile, but im reconsidering, and back to ambiguity, thnx to schjadejal (sp) and some recenet retrosepctive flury

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:25 (twenty years ago)

"mere" graphic design...

That was my point Spencer.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

i don't mean to *relegate* basquiat to any category or another - i just mean to say that in a particular world, basquiat is pretty much a giant. he looms over the world of "urban" graphic and product design the way someone like cartier-bresson does over photojournalism*

* - note, i am not calling cartier-bresson, nor anybody who practices photojournalism, a "mere photojournalist" but it would be silly to pretend there isn't some distinction between their work and portraiture or other types of "fine art" photography.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

I'll concede that the sarcastic addition of "mere" was unnecessary. When you said " i'd almost be more inclined to think basquiat is ultimately a bigger deal in graphic design / product design than in fine art" that seemed to imply a value judgement but I guess I was just being overly defensive of design.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:48 (twenty years ago)

nope, no value judgement. i think graphic / product / apparel design is at least as fascinating as "fine art", and it's especially interesting to me that many graffiti artists that got chewed up and spat out by the gallery system are now wildly successful in design (futura, twist, etc)

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:52 (twenty years ago)

If Cartier-Bresson and Weegee got in a no-holds-barred fistfight, who would win?

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:53 (twenty years ago)

bresson brings the realness on the streets, too

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 25 August 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

Vahid good-to-the-last-drop on this thread!

Massive xpost, but for LA gallery/museum visits:

MOCA - Basquiat (duh)
LACMA - a fantastic Tim Hawkinson show, though I think it closes soon

You'll want to visit the cluster of Chinatown galleries downtown like Black Dragon and Lawrence Man (he's got some great Kaoru Mansour work there).

Museum of Jurassic Technology is A MUST.

Bergamot Station is a compound of galleries in Santa Monica and always has some interesting things.

Karen Lofgren's "believer" at Machine Project in Echo Park is definitely the best thing I've seen this summer. So cool. I'll post a link later.

If you start downtown, you could probably hit all of these places I mention in a single day trip, with time for a quick Amoeba run in the process.....

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Jurassic Technology?!??!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Just a FYI to folks going to MOCA, don't miss the Basquiat video/interview that's playing down in the basement - possibly my fave part of the whole show.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

Jurassic Technology?!??!

I've written at length about the MJT in the other threads... Just visit their website and see what it's all about. Additionally, don't miss the Center For Land Use Interpretation next door.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

The Richard Tuttle exhibit definitely should not be skipped.

I agree SFMOMA has been pretty weak, though....

― Andrew Peterson (ANDER), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

This should really be on ILE, no?

Personally speaking, I quite like what Basquiat art I've seen. His band, Gray, though? Crap!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 August 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

thanks for the links, elvis and jsoulja! especially the center for land use interpretation!! woo!

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 25 August 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

I was also initially thinking this should slide over to ILE, but I kind of like it here. I tend to follow (and am most interested in) the perspectives of people who seem to hang out on ILM regularly, and I'm not 100% sure if they're also lurking on ILE. Whether they do or don't, having this thread on ILM invites these champion purveyors of fine taste and engaging discourse to comment. Youse guys are so smart and interesting!

Also, given the re-issue craze and sound-copping of recent years w/r/t No Wave, No New York, etc., it does seem kind of fitting that Basquiat is an ILM thread, as Gray (whether or not they suck) has been part of that discussion.

Plus, in terms of relationship, influences, etc., I think he's a current topic of interest, given that I've heard Rammellzee's named dropped more times in this past year than ever before....

― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 25 August 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)

When Anitra reports back with what grade she got on her term paper, this thread will be fulfilled.

― Confounded (Confounded), Thursday, 25 August 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

I was mixed-t0-indifferent on Basquiat's art during the 80s but the current retrospective really changed my mind. DEEP stuff, wierdly evocative of 21st centruy interweb info-overload, all those floating word frags phrases and copyright marks. if it's still up in LA: GO!

"Beat Bop" by RAMMELZEE VS KRob is futuristic hiphop science, old school rap on PCP with intimations of gangsta confessional and Material-style funk riffs. Maybe my fave rap record OF ALL TIME. (produced by J-M B).

re: Maria B, I had an unrequited crush on a girl around 1986 who was one of Basquiat's many girlfriends. IIRC acc to her testimony, you're right.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Friday, 26 August 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

(produced by J-M B)

people keep saying this isn't really the case.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

moderator, please move this thread to ILE, unless we are gonna talk about basquiats band.

OK. And, in advance, sorry.

From vincentgallo.com:
When I was 16, I went to New York City. I got in a band right away with Jean Michel Basquiat called Gray. We did gigs at Max's, CBGB's, Hurrahs, and a famous one at the Mudd Club. The Mudd show was packed. It felt really good. After that gig though we broke up. It was Jean's fault. Anyway, a month later he was a millionaire art star. Sometimes it's good to be Black.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

I live like 2 blocks from the Museum of Jurassic Technology and I've never been. I suck.

re basquiat: some of his stuff is great, but I still have a hard time divorcing his life story/cliched artist narrative from his work.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

bump

― bump, Monday, 5 September 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

I love Jean Michel Basquiat. Some of you guys might not like his art, what everyone should accept that he is a great African-American Painter, and his paintings should not be judged from a eurocentric standpoint, but from a relativistic one, in accepting the black-haitian experience that Basquiat distilled in his paintings. However bourgeois and Twombly-like his paintings appeal towards, I will always respect his life. His life was tortured, mostly self-lacerated, in terms of his soul, as reflected in his paintings, was writhing with some sort of pain, and I just think the amount he had to offer the world, if realized, I beleive he would make believers out of those who dislike him...well thats all I have to say...LONG LIVE SAMO!

― e, Thursday, 22 September 2005 22:32 (twenty years ago)

word life.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 September 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

I love Basquiat.

― Brian Jones (Brian Jones), Friday, 10 February 2006 12:30 (twenty years ago)

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