Assail the Unassailable: Sgt. Pepper's

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I really WANT to believe that its greatness and importance are overstated (see also the NYTimes-Op-ed-on-the-Beatles thread), but all I can come up with is:

1) I got sort of tired of it at some point

2) I currently like other Beatles albums better

3) No rock album is THAT important

4) Similarly, anything that highly rated is BOUND to be a little overrated

5) Pet Sounds stands up better for me to repeated listenings

What I really dislike though, and yet can't come up with an argument against, is the idea of Sgt. Pepper's as the most groundbreaking, trailblazing, etc. pop album ever.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:16 (twenty years ago)

Fuckabuncha fake circus overtures and imitation music hall novelty numbers.

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

I mean fuck, if you claim to be a rock band, shouldn't you, y'know, ROCK?

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

I don't believe in Beatles.

The Brainwasher (Twilight), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

Fuckabuncha fake circus overtures and imitation music hall novelty numbers.

-- Austin Still (austin.swinbur...), August 25th, 2005.

Yeah, one tack that occurred to me is to say "Hey, ever heard of Bonzo Dog Band?"

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

I like the album OK, although it's not in my Beatles top 5*. The title track, "With a Little Help From My Friends," "A Day in the Life," those are all great. "Lucy in the Sky" is pretty classic. The rest is a mishmash of likable music-hall pop and outright foolishness. Its "trail-blazing" reputation is ridiculously overstated. In context, "Meet the Beatles" was a lot more trail-blazing. I think Sgt. Pepper's was George Martin's idea of trail-blazing, in that he was never that into the rock'n'roll to start with so it was probably exciting to work with an orchestra and everything.

*My Beatles OPV: Rubber Soul, Revolver, Help, Hard Day's Night, Meet the/With the Beatles.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

I actually DON'T think its greatness and importance are overstated. It bugs me as much as everyone to see some brainless Top 100 Rock Albums article and Sgt. Pepper is number one and someone writes something about it that's not very interesting. It doesn't mean that I don't think Sgt. Pepper is massive, though.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:31 (twenty years ago)

xpost Yeah, I'd actually rank all of the following above Sgt. Pepper: Rubber Soul, Help, Hard Day's Night, Meet/With, Abbey Road, Let It Be, Magical Mystery Tour. But not Revolver. I don't like Revolver all that much.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

"Good Morning" is an awful song. That's all I can contribute to this discussion, I'm afraid.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

So then Tim, can you sum up why it isn't overstated? I'm not being rhetorical here, I'd like to hear your take.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Well, I think it had good timing. It had zeitgeist going for it, summer of '67 and all. My dad tells a story about taking a road trip across several Western states the week it came out, and he said that radio stations were just playing it over and over all the way through. When one station dropped out, they'd look for another one playing it. But it's stories like that that I think have inflated its significance. It was an event, no doubt, but as an album years after the fact, it's hit and miss.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

x-post
OK, no, wait, let me put that in context. SP is not my favorite Beatles album (my OPV is an exact copy of gypsy mothra's) but it does contain my favorite Beatles song ("A Day In The Life"). John's Celtic/blues melodies age much better than Paul's vaudevillian ones, so the music-hall stuff doesn't hold up so well. The "concept" of it is barely worth talking about (okay, they're supposed to be this other band. An old-fashioned, good-time band. All right. And?). "Help" was the real groundbreaker.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

Not to defer, but it's complicated and I've got a hopeful book I've been working on for almost four years on the aesthetics of psychedelic music and there's a good chunk of a chapter on Sgt. Pepper seen as a particularly profound apex of the genre.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

I don't doubt that it was a media and pop cultural event of great significance within the media and pop culture spheres. But so was Star Wars.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

I mean I might tell my kids "People would watch these movies dozens of times, dress as the characters, write their own stories based on the movies," but I'm not going to tack on, "and belief in the FORCE helped us improve gay rights!"

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:40 (twenty years ago)

I don't like the production all that much and Within You Without You is fucking awful but I love love love "Getting Better." I like Revolver the best because it has "Here there and everywhere" which has the most beautiful harmonies ever.

Salty internet pirate, Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

yeah getting better and fixing a hole are really overlooked on this album. really the album is pretty good once you get past the reputation. i definitely like the production. the only thing I hate is the sgt. pepper reprise.

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:59 (twenty years ago)

Why? It's rockin'.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 25 August 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

I like the reprise. I like Day in the Life. I like Fixing a Hole and Getting Better. I can't stand Good Morning, She's Leaving, or With a Little Help From My Friends (though I actually like the Joe Cocker cover).

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)

I can't name one song from that crappy album.

moley (moley), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

reposted anecdote to follow up gypsy's:

one of my high school substitute teachers overheard a classmate talking about the Beatles and told us stories about how you could walk down certain streets in San Fran in 1967 and hear the entire album from one block to another.

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:18 (twenty years ago)

"Good Morning" is an awful song.


The guitar solo salvages it though.

Cunga (Cunga), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:30 (twenty years ago)

i don't get the hate for "good morning," it's one of lennon's funniest songs. and it got even better after i found out (from revolution in the head, i think) that "meet the wife" was a sitcom, and he wasn't just referring to, um, meeting his wife.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:59 (twenty years ago)

Fairly pointless argument, really. Today it doesn't strike me as anywhere near their best album - indeed, my overwhelming feeling is one of tarted-up Revolver rejects - but I am aware that its canonisation is purely down to the 38-year-old zeitgeist which surrounded it when it first came out. I suppose it's a case of, if you weren't there at the time (cf. JFK, moon landing etc.) you'll probably never know what it was like in terms of reception and impact.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 August 2005 06:09 (twenty years ago)

It must have been quite something at the time cos it ended up being one of only 3 rock/pop records my parents owned when I was a kid! (OK by this yardstick the DOORS are just as important, ahem). I do like it but as Marcello says you can't work out why it's so 'great' today by anything as trivial as listening to it.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 August 2005 06:27 (twenty years ago)

i rather like sgt pepper, it has a mellow, good-natured vibe i don't get from much of the beatles' other music. everyone complains about how pretentious it's supposed to be, but really it seems LESS pretentious than a lot of their other albums; on some of the pepper tracks ("lovely rita" especially) i don't get the sense that they're putting all that much thought into what they're doing, they're just fucking around in the studio and going with what sounds good. and i like mccartney in vaudeville mode a lot more than i like him in big-sentimental-ballad mode! tho oddly enough "she's leaving home" is quite affecting to me, a lot moreso than any of their other ballads. really the only thing i don't like that much is "lucy," which is sabotaged by the clunky chorus.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 25 August 2005 07:01 (twenty years ago)

It bugs me as much as everyone to see some brainless Top 100 Rock Albums article and Sgt. Pepper is number one

Except this hasn't happened for over 20 years, has it?

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 08:07 (twenty years ago)

Tends to be the first Stone Roses album these days.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 August 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

"Pet Sounds" doesn't even make number one in "Top 100 Rock Albums articles" anymore!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

yeah i'm weirdly nostalgic for the days of sgt. pepper's unassailable greatness, the onetime somewhat contrarian (albeit probably correct) view of 'revolver is so much better' has now become the cw. i heard sgt. peppers for the first time in god knows how long the other night, it sounded pretty great, as overrated beatles albums go it's pretty great - it's alot better than abbey road and maybe better than the white album where the peaks might be higher than nearly anything here but the troughs are ALOT deeper (i don't care for 'fixing a hole' at all but i like it a hell of alot more than 'honey pie' or 'martha my dear' and 'lucy in the sky with diamonds' does have an awful chorus but not nearly as awful as the chorus to 'bungalow bill' and the verses are leagues better). i have soft spots for the two peppers trax that seem to draw the most derision - 'within you without you' and 'when i'm sixty four'. it's more pop jumble mess than the white album (where they spend half their time resisting/moving beyond this impulse) while being considerably tighter obviously. i like it more than smile too, smile definitely beats it on the sublime and 'it's an album see?' tips but pepper's got harder rockers and there my sympathies lie. great album cover obv. i thought of starting a 'rank 'em - sgt. peppers' thread after hearing it again but didn't so now and here seems as good a place to do so.

a day in the life
sgt. peppers reprise
good morning good morning
getting better
sgt. peppers lonely hearts club band
lovely rita (the last thirty or so seconds especially)
for the benefit of mr. kite
within you without you
she's leaving home
when i'm sixty four
with a little help from my friends (the first twenty or so seconds especially)
lucy in the sky with diamonds
fixing a hole

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 25 August 2005 08:33 (twenty years ago)

question being: did the beatles cop the ending of "a day in the life" from "mrs o'leary's cow"?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 August 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

i like all those little moments on the album that don't lead anywhere or mean anything, that just sort of bumble along for no reason - the long ending of "lovely rita" is particularly wonderful. the more i think about it the more i think this might be my favorite beatles album.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 25 August 2005 09:00 (twenty years ago)

Alas, methinks 'twould have been better to name this thread: Redeem the Irredemable: Sgt. Pepper's!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 09:03 (twenty years ago)

Always really liked Sgt Pepper but it's fall from critical grace doesn't surprise me all that much. It's easy to see why it's too frivlous for rock crits, unlike the far more "serious" Revolver - which has always seemed quite a cold, unlovable album to me ("Day in the Life" > "Tommorow Never Fucking Knows", anyway. Any day).
Anyway, I love all the songs on it apart from "With a Little Help from My Friends" and "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" - but it would have benefited tremendously from the inclusion of "Penny Lane" (some days I think it's their best ever song) (but not "Strawberry Fields")(some days I think it's their worst ever song).

David Merryweather Goes To Far (scarlet), Thursday, 25 August 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

lucy in the sky with diamonds is my favourite song on it but what do I know, i don't like the beatles

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

I never listened to 'em growing up, and when I've gone back to their latter-day albums (from Revolver on), I'm always surprised by how little they actually rocked out. If we were to list 'em, there would be more vaudeville / kid's / novelty songs than actual rocking songs, right?

paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)

I love "She's Leaving Home" by the way, I wish McCartney had written more of those kind of character vignettes, I can only think of "Eleanor Rigby" (which I also love).

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

But he wrote hundreds of the bastards: "Lovely Rita", "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"......... "Rocky Racoon"! The latter is probably my favourite Beatles' song!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

"I think Sgt. Pepper's was George Martin's idea of trail-blazing, in that he was never that into the rock'n'roll to start with so it was probably exciting to work with an orchestra and everything."

This is incorrect. George Martin had little influence on the band's direction. Sgt Pepper was mostly Paul's baby.

"It's easy to see why it's too frivlous for rock crits...."

Whoa! That's not at all what its defenders thought! They defended because it was a Serious Rock Statement. The (over)estimation of Sgt Pepper is the beginning of rockism.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

Ha Tom, I remember about 30 years ago when I was a nipper and would go to the library and read Roy Carr's The Beatles: An Illustrated Record and whenever he got to one of the Macca songs with strings he would say something like "Schmaltz reared its ugly head again with such-and-such."

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

Yeah Dada I know I guess I was specifically thinking of the emo ones!

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)

I like Lovely Rita too though.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

Ha Tom, I remember about 30 years ago when I was a nipper and would go to the library and read Roy Carr's The Beatles: An Illustrated Record

Ha ha, is that the one where he goes thru the solo records too? And demolishes all of them, but especially George Harrison. I think he quite liked some of Ringo's albums.

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

I read the Carr book as a kid too adn thought he was too hard on George, until I heard his solo albums – they really are quite dire.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

I've never heard them but I couldn't quite believe they were as bad as he said

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

Everyone rated "All things must pass" so much, it was on my "I'll get it if it's £12" list. Then it was and I did. Man. I liked the ruddy jam sessions the best.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

What, "Thanks For The Pepperoni" and all that?

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

On All Things Must Pass the production smothers his weedy vocals. If George's name weren't on the cover, you'd think it was a hack who'd never opened his mouth to sing in the shower commanded to lead a backing band.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:40 (twenty years ago)

I know, I saw some of Phil Spector's letters to George outlining what each song needed and how to bolster up his voice. Or indeed, smother around...

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

"It's easy to see why it's too frivlous for rock crits...."

Whoa! That's not at all what its defenders thought! They defended because it was a Serious Rock Statement.

Yeah, but not any longer. Not so much anyway. Look around you, the "Serious Rock Statement" has swung towards Revolver and maybe even Abbey Road a lot more, I'd say.

David Merryweather Goes To Far (scarlet), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

I don't even remotely understand the fervor for Forever Changes. Other than Alone Again Or, which is a fantastic song, the album is completely unmemorable. Sounds like ordinary, B-grade psych pop.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

Tell you what, let's not talk about it then

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

"I also used to be a little Lennon-Is-Better-ist, I'm older than that now"

What is that supposed to mean?

Nigel (Nigel), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

It's a mashup of "Fixing A Hole" and "My Back Pages."

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

is it that cryptic, calum? just that I was once part of the Lennon cult and now I don't think it necessary or proper

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

Age 5: Ringo is the best, he's funny!

Age 10: Paul is the best, his songs are great!

Age 15: John is the best, he's COOL!

Age 20: George is the best, I'm in COLLEGE!

Age 25: Fuck the Beatles!

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

Age 30: Ringo is the best, he's funny!

Age 35: Paul's new album is his best since Tug of War!

Age 40: Yoko really was a genius!

Age 45: The Traveling Wilburys were really good, really!

Age 50: Fuck the Beatles!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:33 (twenty years ago)

Oh yes, George is the one you're supposed to like now, but not as much as Yoko

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Yoko's the only one who never goes out of fashion!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

help, rubber soul and revolver were all SONGS records. sgt. pepper was an IMPACT record.

Absolutely. Sgt. Pepper was the Big Bang for me being a music fan, but I don't think I've listened to it in its entirety since junior high. These days I go to Odessey and Oracle for my Big '60s Rock Statement fix.

The Anthology version of "Good Morning" is stripped down and, imho, superior to the overdone LP version.

mike a, Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

Age 15: The Beatles are great, but the Rolling Stones and The Beach Boys suck.

Age 18: The Beatles and Stones are great but the Beach Boys suck.

Age 21: The Beatles, the Rolling Stones AND the Beach Boys are great.

Age 24: Classic Rock sucks! But the Beach Boys rule.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

Age 38: Y'know, some of these Beatles songs I haven't heard in ages sound fresh again.

mike a, Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

Age 21-30: Maybe I should buy that Klaatu record and see what it sounds like.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Sgt. Peppers was important and had all that impact for two reasons, neither of which holds up much now:

(1) It was really reactionary. It was dominated by McCarthy's music-hall sensibilities, which drew in all of the pre-rock generations. That's why it was the only rock record that lots of peoples' parents bought. Up until then, rock had been about generational and social conflict, drawing the line between their music and ours. Sgt. Pepper's was about generational and social reconciliation. It acknowledged the conflict -- She's Leaving Home, the sitar on Within You, the drug subtext of Lucy and Friends -- but even those songs pulled all the punches in the context of the time. She's Leaving Home treats the parents with sympathy, Lucy is very conventionally pretty, Within You serious and philosophical. And the rest of the songs -- When I'm 64 was the first "rock" song (not really a rock song at all) to acknowledge aging and imagine a life beyond 30. Lovely Rita had someone with a real job treated sympathetically. A Day In The Life dealt with bourgeoise ennui in a way that adults could relate to. Help From My Friends was another totally conventional music-hall song that celebrated community, not rejection. Getting Better is an obvious adult-friendly song.

Lots of those elements were there in Revolver, too, but it was more dour and something like Eleanor Rigby still felt like the youngsters mocking their elders. Post-Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver could be much more appreciated for how reactionary it was as well.

So there was an enormous sigh of relief from the oldsters, much like we see now with Kanye West, except much, much bigger because it was the first sigh of relief, The Beatles were enormous, and 1967 was a pretty scary time if you were over 30. And the wishful thinking engines of the media really went to work on the concept that if this is where rock is headed, we'll be alright.

(2) The whole concept-album idea, and the accompanying declarations of Artistic Ambition, were pretty new. Not unique, but unique from any artist as popular and visible as The Beatles. This was another strong signifier of Adulthood, and reinforced the lyrical/musical themes of the record and its vibe of continuity with the past rather than rejection of it.

So anyway, there you have it: It was an album parents and kids could both love. The Doors and Surrealistic Pillow were not albums parents could love. It was a message of hope in troubled and confusing times, holding out at least the possibility of ultimate reconciliation and continuity. People loved that shit.

Vornado, Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

Age 39: I'm listening to Blossom Dearie at work, but my daughter has the Beatles One album and likes "Ticket to Ride."

Also: Vornado's #2 holds a lot more weight than his #1.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

Age 21: "Paul's Boutique is the Sgt. Pepper's of hip-hop!"

Age 26: "No it's not!"

Age 29: "Eh, who cares?"

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

Age 16: "Back then they thought THIS was 'psychedelic'?! What a bunch of knobs!"

Age 24: "There's only like 3 or 4 decent songs on it. Cool that Aleister Crowley is on the cover, though."

Age 31: "Still don't really like it."

IXLPLX, Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

God, this thread is dreary. "Fine Line" isn't great, but it's not horrible. The other two new songs up on the Chaos and Creation site as mp3s are really good.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

I'm still trying to figure out how Dada *only* owns "Yellow Submarine"

Keith C (lync0), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

His local CD store has shitty stock?

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 August 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

I'm still trying to figure out how Dada *only* owns "Yellow Submarine"

What's so strange about that? I got it for 50p or something

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

... plus it's got "It's All Too Much", which I like

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

"I was once part of the Lennon cult and now I don't think it necessary or proper"

What is that supposed to mean?

Nigel (Nigel), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I'm sort of surprised by the lack of love for "A Little Help From My Friends" on this thread. Easily the second best song on Pepper! But I'm in the Revolver camp - I loves me some dour Beatles, I geuss.

darin (darin), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Parents didn't buy Sgt Pepper because they related to the music hall elements. That was the music of their own parents generation, and it had never sold well on record anyway. Songs like "Can't Buy Me Love", covered by the likes of Ella Fitzgerald, earlier Beatles ballads, country songs like Act Naturally and covers of Chuck Berry were much closer to the taste of the kinds of parents who bought records than music hall.

They bought it because the arts pages in the broadsheets, who had started to think that there might be more to beat music than something for teenagers to dance to, treated it as a respectable work of art, and suggested that something was going on that Mr Jones should be aware of.

In thinking of the contemporary critical reception it's important to remember that Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were originally intended to be part of SP and were released as a double sided single instead purely as a commercial strategy. The sense that The Beatles peaked in the Sgt Pepper era was hugely influenced by this: people tended to lump SP and the double-sided single together taking them together as "what The Beatles are doing now" and it seemed a miraculous increase in sophistication compared to what they had been doing even a couple of years earlier. To some extent the perception that SP was "overrated" arises because later listeners don't have this same tendency to evaluate the period, rather than which tracks happened (somewhat arbitrarily) to be included on the album.

frankiemachine, Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Lovely Rita had someone with a real job treated sympathetically.

Even at age 12, I thought Rita was being used. She's an underpaid civil-service worker who gets a date with a Beatle. But she has to pay for dinner, AND is asked to perform menage a trois (or quatre) after the date. What is this, R. Kelly circa 1967?

mike a, Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Vornado, fact-checking OTM. As I learned it Pepper was groundbreaking in terms of album-as-work and themes, not necessarily musically. According to all who were there, it was an event.

I am still trying to love "OK Computer" but I think if I'd been 16 when it came out it would have the same iconic status, and is similar in being mindblowing for those that were there and in that mindset at the time.

xpost - Strawberry Fields would give SP a massive bump up, eh? thanks frankie

Declan Zimmerman, Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Yep, hadn't Johnny Cash had been doing concept albums for years? And don't get me started on Sinatra!!!!!!!!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

the book on Rolling Stone i've been reading recently credits "shes leaving home" as a mildly major impulse on the flocking of youth to San Francisco....

but I can't buy that...

bb (bbrz), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

She runs away with a man from the motor trade doesn't she? I'm guessing it's more likely they're headed for Sutton Coldfield than San Francisco

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 August 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Very late to the party on this one, but I remember the older stoner cousin of a friend of mine strenuously trying to convince me that all the animal sounds on the outro of "Good Morning" were made with a guitar. Even as a youthful, Kiss-loving dim bulb, I was skeptical.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 August 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

bump

bump, Tuesday, 6 September 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)

"Within You Without You" is horrible. Way too long to sit through, just like "Revolution 9".

But besides that, top album.

Top !

Erock LAzron, Tuesday, 6 September 2005 04:39 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Erock. It's just *so difficult* to sit through 5 minute songs, isn't it?

Fählig, Tuesday, 6 September 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

It is if they're FUCKING SHITE

Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

Very late to the party on this one, but I remember the older stoner cousin of a friend of mine strenuously trying to convince me that all the animal sounds on the outro of "Good Morning" were made with a guitar. Even as a youthful, Kiss-loving dim bulb, I was skeptical.

The very last animal is a chicken, which they edited onto the first note of "Sgt Pepper" reprise which is a guitar note, of which they sped up the tape so the note was the same as the chicken squawk, then returned the tape speed to normal.

So, a guitar made half a chicken.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

Raymond Douglas, have you weighed in over on the Kinks vs Small Faces thread?

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

Even the Beatles got bored of all the Sgt Pepper praise.

There's one thing I want to know about the cover. In one interview, John Lennon said that if you look closely at the cover you can tell that two of them were "flying" in the photo session. I presume he meant under the influence.

My guess is John and George.


Bob Six (bobbysix), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 11:09 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...
http://i.today.reuters.co.uk/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-02-

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 27 February 2006 21:19 (twenty years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41375000/jpg/_41375004_2ndefit203.jpg

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 27 February 2006 21:21 (twenty years ago)

what does gg allin have to do with sgt pepper???

xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 07:37 (twenty years ago)

pepper contains a blueprint for the bullion robbery. billy shears is a codename for the bloke they kidnapped. sgt pepper was the 'mr bridger' character directing the blag from inside - it took 20 yrs to plan. gg allin faked his own death (paul is dead was a red herring) and led the robbers.

conspiratatus, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:31 (twenty years ago)

So The Beatles have links to Charles Manson AND GG Allin???? And The Rolling Stones are considered the bad boys?!?!? Was it because Mick Jagger didn't wear a tie on.........what show was it??

xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 11:41 (twenty years ago)

See, my fear is that one day, maybe not too far away, The Joshua Tree will become the dominant canonized rock album. Better this than that.

(That said, I haven't listened in many years and might prefer about 5 other Beatles albums. I swear by white and MMT but no one listens to me anyway. I really like With the Beatles and Help! too.)

Sundar (sundar), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 16:03 (twenty years ago)

Actually if SFF and "Penny Lane" were on the album, it would be pretty great. I think white has the most of what I listen for in a rock album - the broad sprawling feel, the unpredictability, the variety in sound and mood, the fact that it actually rocks sometimes, the fact that it gets both sillier and more serious.

Sundar (sundar), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

I haven't owned Sgt. Pepper for over twenty years, since I lost the cassette copy that I bought over thirty years ago and used to play on one of these pre-boombox desktop tape recorders that looked like the kind of fifties-era office equipment that Tom Ewell would have dictated his thoughts into in The Seven Year Itch. I am looking forward to rediscovering it in glorious (and digital!) stereo.

And, at the risk of caving into someone fishing for attention, Sundar is basically on the money on this thread, and usually has pretty interesting things to say in general.

Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 16:51 (twenty years ago)

if people posted to threads on hollywood actresses (and they probably do) there's probably one doing the rounds saying monroe was a fat ugly cow with no comic timing. ho hum.
it's still beautiful to listen to, even if it's no longer fashionable to say it's the greatest thing ever. and yes it could have been greater with penny lane/strawberry fields instead of a couple of side 2 tracks, but these days you can burn any album you wish, so enjoy....

dr x o'skeleton, Tuesday, 28 February 2006 17:21 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

fucking hell i can hear carl barat and pete doherty covering 'day in the life' and it's the worst most appalling shit ever.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 27 August 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.shortandhappy.com/images/CVache1.gif
Noooooooo!

Just got offed, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:01 (eighteen years ago)

"Sgt. Pepper" has been "overrated" since punk. Come up with something new.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 27 August 2007 20:02 (eighteen years ago)


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