Paul Simon, "Hearts & Bones" - C/D?

For people who are able to understand and articulate music on an a technical level: what is the magic trick that he does on the title track when the chord change happens at each point in the song after the line "the arc of a love affair..."? Is he just changing keys in some unexpected way? Or is it more subtle than that? For whatever reason, those bits slay me.

Or is there a key change in the phrase just before that? What's he doing there??

The change happens happens a beat after the new line, right? "The arc of a love affair...bumm..."

The re-release of this record has a fantastic bonus-track demo version of "Train in the Distance", just voice and guitar.

Yeah, that's the part that gets me the most, but I think that there is a part before that where there is maybe a proper key change which sets the stage (obviously I have no technical knowledge of music, hence my question...)

That demo sounds like it could be great! I like that song lots, but sometimes the background vocals seem a bit overdone...and corny...

Regardless, he does that great thing in "Hearts and Bones" where, you're listening and thinking, "okay, he's gonna go here...but then he goes somewhere else completely unenvisioned...but not in a dissonant way, but more like he slides into some magical pocket that you never previously suspected existed, what with all manner of chord changes having been drummed into your brain to the point where it seems like there is nothing new under the sun. I mean, I guess straight-up jazz music does this sort of thing all the time, but truth be told, I sometimes get dizzy with the flurry of unorthodox chord changes and just general overflow of musical information that is being streamed at me in much "jazz" stuff.

I guess that's why I tend to be a sucker for music which exists in the pop idiom, but here and there incorporates jazz inflections? It's like I am some struggling algebra student who once in a while makes sense of some of the equations involving x's and y's, while meanwhile, the hardcore jazz dudes are making inside jokes about calculus-level stuff?

That "Train In The Distance" demo is on iTunes for 99 cents.

Cool, thanks.

ok, this is first time i've heard this song, and it's nice! from what I can tell, he's isn't actually doing a lot that's "tricky" except for playing a chord w/a maj 7th instead of an expected flatted 7th. so, the tech part. the song is in E major, and chords would be:

E
Thinking back to the season before

E
Looking back through the cracks in the door

E
Two people were married

E
The act was outrageous

E
The bride was contagious

B7
She burned like a bride

Eb dim7 (which is really a substite for Ab7, i.e. the V7 of vi in E)
These events may have had some effect

Eb dim7
On the man with the

C# minor (i.e., the vi chord) -- -- -- > resolving to F#7 (i.e. the II7 of the V chord in E)
girl by his side

...then to B MAJ7 (normally you'd just expect B7, which is the V7 of E)
The arc of a love affair

...and furthermore to A MAJ7 (another unexpected raised 7th for an otherwise normal IV chord in E)
His hands rolling down her hair

...and back to E
Love like lightning shaking till it moans

Wow, thanks, that's an awesome explication!

I always get positively lost on the roman numeral stuff in chord theory, though. Also, it would help if I had a guitar or keyboard instrument in front of me, which I don't at the moment...

It makes sense though, if only because I've found that I'm a sucker for major 7th chords...but I've been lead to understand that major 7th's are an overused schmaltzy faux jazz trick of sorts? Does that amount to a consensus of sorts among proper muso folk, or am I making that up?

I would like at some point to take proper musical lessons, or to at least understand some of this theoretical stuff on my own, but I feel like there are two parts of my brain necessary to understanding all of that which for whatever reasons don't seem to want to coordinate. I think I stumble upon similarly pretty stuff when I'm messing around on guitar or piano, but I have fuck-all of an idea of what any of it translates to on paper...but I'm still curious, because part of me wants to diagram, as it were, whatever the weird stuff is that has such insistent visceral effects on me

i've been meaning to pick up this album for a year or so. i LOVE 'think too much' but didn't know chic was behind it. only makes sense.

I cannot understand why I haven't responded to this thread, but the fact is that this is actually his best album. Sort of the pinnacle of his "sophisticated" singer/songwriter style just before he discovered World Music.

"Renee And Georgette Margritte With Their Dog After The War" also has a classic overlooked video, in addition to being his best ever song.
And then there's also "Train In The Distance" and "The Great Late Johnny Ace". Classic without a shadow of doubt!

I cannot understand why I haven't responded to this thread, but the fact is that this is actually his best album.

Lapseberger's Syndrome?

I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. Sorta.

I've been listening to some sundry Paul Simon stuff lately and am kind of in love with "The Late Great Johnny Ace," especially how it shifts seamlessly into that Philip Glass coda.

but I've been lead to understand that major 7th's are an overused schmaltzy faux jazz trick of sorts? Does that amount to a consensus of sorts among proper muso folk, or am I making that up?

Maj-7th chords are otherwise known as "jazz chords," but I wouldn't call them overused or schmaltzy. (Especially since I'm with you -- I'm a sucker for them.) Depends on the context, I guess.

Fantastic.

trivia: this was the Simon and Garfunkle come back album, but Simon stripped him off it after they were done for some reason.

but I've been lead to understand that major 7th's are an overused schmaltzy faux jazz trick of sorts

haha, well...that's really more of a value judgment on a chord rather than any kind of actual theory axiom. As far as (western) music theory is concerned, there really isn't any logical explanation as to why you would use a MAJ7 chord at any point -- you hear it lots, in pop, jazz, and classical, but I think it is used a) because perhaps whatever melody the composer wants to use uses the raised 7th instead of the flatted one, or b)like you, people just think it sounds pretty. But as far as theoretical concerns, specifically how and why notes resolve the way they do, MAJ7 really doesn't make any sense.

Of course, that's all to do w/the way harmony has developed. You could easily make the case that we're all going to invent a different way of resolving. It's not really any different than any rule or law -- stuff gets changed when enough people decide it's better to do it a new way.

As far as roman numeral analysis, the most important stuff to know I think is a) the numbers = notes in the scale. V7 = a major triad (hence the capital letter) with a (typically flatted) 7th on to

and b) western theory axiom #1: V resolves to I. ie, in the Paul Simon song, a B chord (B being the 5th note in an E major scale) resolves back to E. When you start seeing stuff like "V7 of vi" or whatever, it's telling you, "let's pretend we're going to change the key to whatever the vi chord is -- C# minor for example -- ...if we did that, then we'd resolve to it by playing its V chord (ie, the 5th note in this new C#m scale)...in this case Ab7 (or the substituted diminished chord that P.S. uses instead, which is just one note different than an Ab7 chord). It's really just a neat way of making what might be an unexpected change in harmony sound a little more normal.

x-post

Fantastic.

-- Eazy, Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Hah, reminds me of last week's Vampire Weekend in-store...ba-dum-pah!!!!

sorry.

Seriously, though, I love Art Garfunkel's voice, absolutely, but Simon's ease of vocals is nothing to sneeze at...making it look so easy. wow.

A sort of simplistic way I describe maj-7ths (and my fondness for them) is that they overlay a major chord (like C-E-G) with a minor chord (E-G-B), and so they have the ability to sound both happy and sad, or perhaps bittersweet. Satie knew this.

akm, really??? That's weird. I need to research that.

yes, it was called 'think too much'; some of the songs on this were played at the central park concert (and are on the live album)

Is there truth to the thing that Debussy introduced the major 7th to the Western world and at the time it sounded so weird, but gradually gained acceptance, etc.?

Dominique,

Thanks so much for that response! I still lose it when it comes to talk of scales and such, but maybe I am simply rationalizing intellectual laziness with excuses of brain freeze...regardless, what you laid down there seems like a really helpful way of looking at it...I'm going to re-read and re-read that some more with my ears and brains.

Hmm, I think Satie was using them in similar ways as Debussy, though, Debussy's methods of revelling in certain chords (especially without regard to their supposed "function" in the scheme of the work) were certainly the greatest support their distinctive sound could have asked for. You will find major chords with major sevenths quite far back (e.g., Bach and earlier), but generally only used as suspension elements (i.e., momentary tension to resolve soon after, rather than legit tonality).

-- dleone, Monday, June 10, 2002 7:00 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

Ha, thanks. But I have perhaps only the vaguest grasp on what "legit tonality" means as opposed to some other use, unless someone is there to walk me through it and point to the relevant passages. Hence my saying that I should probably take a stab at some proper music lessons at some point...

trivia: this was the Simon and Garfunkle come back album, but Simon stripped him off it after they were done for some reason.

He told Rolling Stone that he stripped the Garfunkel vocal tracks because these songs were "too personal." Kind of a nasty move after touring and bringing the guy in to the studio and all.

wow. ouch

I've never read any serious bios of these guys (do any good ones exist? Yeah, I'm too lazy to google...)

What was the whole beef between them, anyhow?

beats me, they seem to come together and then break apart pretty regularly. anyway it was probably a good idea for this NOT to be the S&G comeback album, simply because, good as it is, it's not as good as any of their other albums, and would have gotten pretty panned (as it is, the album didn't get very many good reviews at the time...it seems to be much better regarded these days).

i know garfunkle said somewhere that Simon called him up and said, "oh btw I'm taking you off the album" and then invited him to his wedding the next month. What a weirdo.

Hmm, yeah, I guess I'm just confused as to which guy is the bigger ass. It seems like the scale would fall towards PS, but who knows?

Regardless, I think that Hearts and Bones is better than One Trick Pony, if only on the basis of the song "Think Too Much". I only mention that because of some other thread here which re-revisioned OTP ahead of Heats and Bones.

or "Hearts", even...

Sometimes I wish this place had a "preview" function.

Simon seems to have been the obvious alpha in the relationship and wrote most of the material and so he comes across as the biggest ass when you read up on them, but I'm not so sure that's really the case. I get the feeling that they kind of wound up famous by accident (due to the remix of sounds of silence being a hit, after they'd already basically broken up and simon moved to england), and then tried it out as best they could for a few years, and then it stopped working. That they do anything together these days seems like it's either for money or for yucks, but not because they're the greatest working duo ever.

huh - I had never even heard of this album. v interesting

the magritte song is amazing, one of my favorite simon songs ever (w/ or w/o garfunkle)

Funny, because that song is one that especially bugs me. The title alone seems overly-strained in the singer-songwriter-ly way of trying to tell a story. I would rather listen to Paul Simon singing, whether in character, or out-of, about smoking himself a "J" and blowing the crowd away, etc.

smoking himself a "J" and blowing the crowd away

lolz I laugh every time I hear that song/think about this line now

But third-person storytelling in songs tends to rub me in the wrong way as a rule. "He's a real nowhere man"...stfu...the examples are legion.

I much prefer first-person to self-indulgence than shoddily created characters within the context of a two minute pop song.

xpost

Yeah, it's hard to beat.

Also, it's been remarked elsewhere on this board, but the cheesy accompanying guitar line is almost gilding the lily in a sense.

Great song, though.

The entire thing could be taken as a weed equivalent to the Randy Newman joke about "A Horse with No Name"'s acid conceits, but it's fundamental genius can't be denied, as far as I'm concerned...

For that matter, the America song is pretty great, as well.

I much prefer first-person to self-indulgence than shoddily created characters within the context of a two minute pop song.

typo.

Sign me up for "Rolling Controversial Opinions on ILM" thread, I guess...

Agh, I wish this board had a preview function. The text that you type in the box is in such a graceless typeface, compared to the end result. And this damn small box, it's boxing me in.

I'm a big picture kind of guy.

"When Numbers Get Serious."

Think Too Much (a) + (b) are both great songs. Playing these on repeat today.

so is "Song About the Moon"

I thought I remembered the video showing on Saturday Night Live once either when Simon was host or musical guest, but I guess it was "The New Show" instead.

the new show is the only time I ever saw that, it's weird that I remember that pretty vividly.

I saw it on HBO's Video Jukebox back in the day.

Not sure how long this will stay online, but this is the "Train in the Distance" demo included as a bonus track in the catalog re-release:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsArOakcLHw

Really lovely, thanks for posting.

she cooks a meal or twooooooooo

good lord this album is terrible

For an album to be terrible, more than half the songs have to be terrible.

This is not one of those albums. "Allergies" and "Cars are Cars" are the only throwaways.

yeah this album is great, come on now. "train in the distance" "magritte" "think too much" "johnny ace" ... what's not to like?

It's a question I often repeat
Where do allergies go when it's after a show
And they want to get something to eat?

really? you ask yourself this question a lot? so many weak slapped together "observational" lyrics that don't add up to anything, his usually reliable storehouse of memorable melodies and hooks almost entirely absent, a bunch of arrangements that feel like tentative stabs towards some shakily defined goal - no wonder he ended up borrowing/collaborating so much on the next record, it's like he forgot how to write.

xp

"Allergies" and "Cars are Cars" are the only throwaways.

agree these are the worst, they're embarrassing

listening to them makes me feel bad for Paul Simon, in a "oh come on man, don't do THAT, oh no you are doing it anyway please stop"

way

I'd also add the Chic version of "Think Too Much" to tylerw's list. The album's second tier Simon, but it's the best kind of crisis album: an artist at a crossroads, anxious about the next step.

I'd add both of them

oh wait, he already had one. how did you know which was excluded?

after the mega-flop of the One Trick Pony film/album you can just imagine the label's reaction when they hear H+B track 1 side 1 for the first time. no wonder PS says they didn't give a shit what he did next and let him go off and do whatever the heck he wanted.

weird how the massive Central Park gig happened in between One Trick.. and this! like at that point there was nothing to be done to halt the slide.

also this is fascinating if you haven't seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nap6bNPU4qU

weird how the massive Central Park gig happened in between One Trick
hearts and bones was originally conceived as a simon and garfunkel reunion album right? i'm sure the record company would've been fine w/ anything that had S&G on the cover.

One Trick Pony is not a great album but I love that movie

mmhm yeah until they had a row and he 'removed his vocals note by note'(WIKI). the demos with Art were on YouTube but.. not now it seems.

wau @ that interview!

ha yeah. innit.

xp still haven't seen One Trick but this looks.. weird/great. Lou Reed is a pretty good actor!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDRjsKcFC9g

that's towards the end. It got put out on DVD as part of MGM's cheapier archive reissue series, def worth hunting down imo

i kind of like "cars are cars." the melody on the "i once had a car that was more like a home" parts is pretty. i guess those are the verses.

this album is good. it has "hearts and bones" and "train in the distance" and "song about the moon" and BOTH "think too much"s and "rene and georges magritte"! an embarrassment of riches.

engine in the FRONT
jack in the BACK

i don't know it always sounds like simon's singing to his kids on those parts. it's goofy, but i like it.

saddest part is the above is not true all over the world

i feel like "cars are cars" leads with its dumb tautology so that it lowers your expectations and then it manages to slip in some moving stuff? like, it's essentially making the same argument as "i am a rock" does, but more lightheartedly.

i also think paul simon has feelings about cars.

it is not the most carefully crafted of his songs, sure.

I had never connected the dots that he was playing Johnny Ace when that guy ran onstage at the Concert for Central Park (that track doesn't appear on the album iirc), that's pretty freaky.

"Cars are Cars" is very stupid, but yeah the "I once had a car that was more like a home" section is brilliant and should have been saved for a better song. Other than that I think "Allergies" and "When Numbers Get Serious" are very weak, and "Song About the Moon" is acceptable as the same kind of laid-back unimportant album track that had populated much of the last two records. So that's a lot of the record, since there's only ten tracks on this thing, but "Rene and Georgette," "Hearts and Bones," "Johnny Ace" and the quiet "Think Too Much" are all excellent, with the first of those among Simon's very best songs. I also think the Rodgers "Think Too Much" is fun and catchy, enough that you can imagine what Simon or the label were hoping to get out of this collaboration. One of my favorite stanzas on the record:

I had a childhood that was mercifully brief
I grew up in a state of disbelief
Started to think too much when I was twelve
Goin' on thirteen
Me and the girls from St. Augustine
Up in the mezzanine, thinkin' about god, yeah

i slightly prefer the quiet "think too much" but the other "think too much" is great, and the part you quoted always makes me think of plax (hi plax, if you're around!)

Paul Simon being very Paul Simon-y in this Cinemax Album Flash special on Hearts & Bones from '84:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ELMdiXGkI&t=547s

or: https://youtu.be/59ELMdiXGkI

The title track and the quiet "Think Too Much" always destroy me, I can't sing along to them because I get a lump in my throat. I guess I have been listening to this album as long as Tusk, but nowhere near as often.

I just discovered this album. Wtf why is it so underrated? Is it the ugly album cover? This is actually really good.

I mean it could be that “cars are cars” is a low point from everything I’ve heard of him so far. But there’s some of the best I’ve heard of him in here too.

The title track and "Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After the War" are two of my favorite Paul Simon songs, but Simon's done a pretty good job of including them on his endless compilations, so I imagine most fans know those songs.

you take two bodies and you twirl them into one
their hearts and their bones
and they won't come undone

One of the best divorce lyrics of all time. So good. I have to admit I have never listened to this as an album, but should, because I love the three songs from it that end up on compilations.

I have never heard Paul Simon comps. I’m familiar with the popular singles and three albums: s/t, graceland, and rhythm of the saints… just rediscovering the rest. Oddly enough it’s the non-singles and some of the deep cuts the ones that make me the most interested in his music. Songs like Thelma and Peace Like a River are two of my favorite of his. Title track from this one is very impressive as are both versions of “think too much”.

He is one of those artists that his most popular singles do a disservice to the rest of his work imho.

Not that “you can call me al” or “me and julio” or “50 ways” are bad songs. They are great, but they feel like they don’t really represent this other side of him.

His comps can feel very redundant, even when they expand to fit a new format (one vinyl disc to one full CD to two full CD's, etc.) But they also highlight how much his solo records (at least before Graceland) cohere really well with each other every time you mix them together.

His first three studio albums, Graceland, Rhythm of the Saints and his last two studio albums of all-new songs wound up being my favorites. Hearts and Bones is on the cusp - good songs but something about they way they were produced feels a little thrown together to me, like they needed a few more passes to make all the elements gel within each track.

like more Art, less technique

xp Peace Like a River is all-time.

Yeah, these days the eponymous debut gets overlooked. I spent time with it in January after several years -- what a charming, friendly, smart collection!

xxp that's about right. Clearly more ambitious, but they don't quite nail the execution.

i should spend some time with this one this week, it's been ages. most recently have had really nice evenings with Still Crazy and Rhymin' Simon. i feel like almost all his albums besides Graceland are in some sense "underrated." H&B has some of his most affecting songs for sure. i think only "Allergies" and "When Numbers Get Serious" don't work for me at all.

I'm tempted to say the title track and "Rene and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After the War" are better than any song he's written since, and the original album versions are beautiful recordings despite my reservations elsewhere. Graceland's a much better album, but it's a triumph that owes a lot more to the contributions of new and guest collaborators, etc.

Xxpost love Peace Like A River and Armistice Day off the solo debut. Had H&B on vinyl way back when. Never bought the CD so it’s been ages since I’ve heard it.

The solo-acoustic “Train in the Distance” is one of my favorites of any of his songs.

I can see that. I always liked parts of that song, but it feels underdeveloped on the studio recording. I vaguely recall some strings popping up at the end - they felt kind of thrown in there and drove home how rough the album sounds, like they were still workshopping ideas rather than figuring out what they really wanted to do and taking the usual care to execute those ideas.