Live Skull Appreciation Thread (pre-Thalia admirer)

that track is damned allright

I interviewed Live Skull in '89, and they told me Marnie had stopped playing and was working as a massage therapist. She formed Fuse with Mark C after Live Skull imploded, and I caught one of their gigs at The Kitchen in '92(?) with Mark C. on gtr and Marnie on bass. I never got to see the original line-up of Live Skull live, so that was nice (but not the same I'm sure). I think Marnie got pregnant and quit music for good soon thereafter.

Hopefully this thread will not continue with quasi-stalking posts about her...

Found an interesting article written when Dusted was released:
http://members.cox.net/inferiority/thalia-zedek/greed.html

-- bb (b...), September 15th, 2005.

Underappreciated contemporaries of early Sonic Youth and Swans. If you want to check 'em out, I suggest Don't Get Any On You or Dusted, then work your way backwards. Their stuff is almost impossible to find nowadays, and the early records (with the exception of Dusted) never made it to CD.

i think until now, i was the one and only marnie fan on ilm. nice to meet you.
-- scott seward (skotro...), September 15th, 2005.

Likewise. I dunno, there may be some lurking Marnie fans out there...

As far as the best Thalia-era Live Skull, yes, Positraction is the hands down winner. Thalia brought a human/humanist face to Live Skull (christ, Tom Paine's even holding a fucking flower on the cover of Positraction), but you lose out on the unsettling + gruesome aspects of the early stuff. What can I say, I'm a sucker for morbid rock action.

Positraction is fantastic, very psychedlic or something. I haven't kept up with her in some time, but Thalias work from Dangerous Birds, through Uzi (which should be checked out by any Live Skull/SY etc fan) and these records slays me. I lost track during Come. Anyway, this isn't the Thalia thread, sorry!

I've said it again, as have others, 5D off Dusted is one hell of a song. The video of that featuring Mark C's photography, was shown on MTV and that's how I got into them. I still have the VHS of 120 Minutes when it was on.

I've got that as well. I should pull that out tonight.

HMS 011 Speed Trials Compilation LP/CS
The Fall: Tempo House
The Fall: Smile
Beastie Boys: Egg Raid on Mojo
Live Skull: I Was Wrong
Sonic Youth: Dig This
Lydia Lunch: Main Kelly and Me on a Blender
Carbon: ytykyd
Swans: Weakling
Toy Killers: Victimless Crime

http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/artist/artist.cgi?ARTISTID=602942

Having said that, I never actually heard the racket they made...

Robbie

It can be hard getting into Live Skull, but worth it. I listened to Cloud One (my fav, too, Scott) over and over when I first got it, not enjoying it as much as fascinated by it. It was music that resisted comprehension. Even the challenging music of that period (Swans or Sonic Youth) came at you very directly. Live Skull sounded like they were approaching things the same way, but parts of their brains had been removed; the parts that allow people to make music others can relate to. Live Skull is to rock music what Cronenberg's Crash is to a softcore porn film. Very alike and using many of the same elements, but there's something dark and broken that desires/resists pleasure in a perverse way. Once I figured out what Live Skull was up to, it was addicting.

It's funny The Fall got brought up, because I had the same reaction to them. I listened to Palace of Swords Reversed over and over until I got it; not really enjoying the music but fascinated by it. They're also one of my faves. Appreciating the finer things in life takes a little work sometimes...

So, what did they sound like before?
-- Soukesian (byakhee2000nospa...), September 15th, 2005.

Try the YSI link in the original post and find out!

Yes. The YSI link is still working if you want to check it out...

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=36NHAXNEHFIFI2UFWUZ7A4X6BU

http://atavistic.com/catalog.cfm?action=1&ThisLabel=4

5D...as good as Expressway to Yr Skull...

I don't consider Live Skull *more* challenging than Swans / SY, but they are *as* challenging - though I think we're using "challenging" in different ways. Sonic Youth and Swans may have been more abrasive / difficult to listen to, but Live Skull were harder to "take in," which caused a lot of people to dismiss them. This is kind of difficult to explain, so bear with me...

Although they don't sound anything alike, Live Skull at their best are similar to Captain Beefheart circa Trout Mask Replica. The different musical parts interlock in ways that make it difficult to take in a song as a whole. Once you start to understand what each musician is playing, the joy of listening to the music is derived in part from hearing how the parts interact - listening "through" the music, rather than "to" it. Live Skull may seem like facile mopey goth-rock at first blush, but there's a lot more going on in those grooves.

IMO the Mark C/Paine/Greenholz/Lo lineup perfected this approach on Cloud One / Don't Get Any On You, although a lot of people prefer the Thalia lineup. As mentioned several times upthread, they are very different. Dusted is a funny record because the difference between the C/Paine/Greenholz/Lo and Zedek/C/Paine/Greenholz/Hutchins lineups is unmistakable as you go from track to track. It's a spotty listen but a great example of the effects of the lineup change.

I guess I'll throw in that a couple of my friends hated Live Skull until Don't Get Any On You came out. The studio albums are pretty sterile, but DGAOY proves that Live Skull live was a wild + untamed black windtunnel of sound. If I can digitize them, I'll try to upload Pusherman and The Loved One from DGAOY - they crap heavy all over the studio versions.

Thurston Moore weighed in on the influence Live Skull had on Sonic Youth in the SY bio that was published, and here's Martin Bisi from a 1993 interview....

Alternative Press: Is there a personal favorite of the records you've worked on?

Martin Bisi: We took a lot of chances on Live Skull's Dusted. It almost goes too far. There's a lot of mystery in what the different instruments are doing.

and are a couple more YSI files...

X w/ the Light (from Dusted)
http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0L2ZK9XOEQTZP1OTJJ2ALM6HCE
(if you've ever spent time in NYC, the chorus of "I cross with the light / I cross with the light / I cross with the light / Run, little animals" should strike a chord)

Jerking the Light (from Bringing Home The Bait)
http://s46.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1NPUQM7EBG1B73J6192XW0M5E9
(great example of James Lo both playing the beat and playing around the beat here)

Personally, I love the very first Live Skull record. I got sick of waiting for a CD release and converted my tape copy (as well as Cloud Ten LP) to cd. Remastered myself. Sounds great!

The first record also has one of my all time favorite covers.

Check out Rat at Rat R's 'Rock is Dead' LP too, it's killer.

Anyone remember that White Zombie used to be an amazing Downtown scuzz band before the disco metal?

Friends had the first White Zombie LP when it came out - as I remember even then it seemed a bit too metal for me at the time, but my tastes have shifted and I might like it now. And, yes, their transition to the mall-metal T-shirt aristocracy was a bit of a surprise.

White Zombie were a pretty popular 2nd wave NYC noise band (along with Pussy Galore), but I never got into them. Thought there was too much image and not enough music. I've actually sold a couple of copies of the Soulcrusher LP for good money on eBay. There are another set of records that will never see the light of day on CD (Psycho Head Blowout and Soulcrusher) - Rob Zombie hates 'em. "Ratmouth" from Soulcrusher is great, great song, though, worth hearing at least once.

2nd Rat At Rat R album is self titled and is on CD, though hard to find. Much more hard rock than the first. It's uneven, but has a coupla killer songs, kinda prog-noise with metal flirtations. One of these tracks, "Larry Facedown," is pretty essential.

There's an otherwise unreleased and pretty good RARR song called "The Way" on a compilation called Manhattan On the Rocks (also home to a great Big Stick track). As I understand it, there's also a tape of a very early incarnation of the group, before they moved to NYC. Never heard it.

I've been in touch with part of the band recently. Apparently there've been talks of a reunion, etc. but one member is MIA.

http://idisk.mac.com/mysticalbeast/Public/Asshole.mp3 from the first album.

http://idisk.mac.com/mysticalbeast/Public/LarryFacedown.mp3 from the second.

1st one builds to a pretty great climax before dissolving into scrapes and buzzes and always reminded me a bit of Gira fronting early SY. 2nd is less noisy, more hard rock after a longish intro. Still surprising the extent to which this band fell off the map. Pretty powerful stuff at high volume.

Have all of their vinyl, but have been looking for the early stuff on CD.

Peace.

http://whatididwaswrong.com/cloudone.htm

Found this link to one of their best works. Opening track from Cloud One. Recorded live. I've seen them make a few jaws drop playing this live years ago.

P.S. you must listen to this LOUD on a good system that can handle the low bass, and the guitar trebble. If it's not loud enough to feel........None of that IPod, ear-bud business, serious listeners only....:-) enjoy!

(Possible title for new thread: Can we trust rock critics' concept of fun?)

Fort B was a lucky grab. Unfortunately, none of the early OEM LS seems to be out there.

I have all the early vinyl (somewhere) and will try to digitize it.

I'll check with Mark C, a friend of a friend, to see if he's cool with this.

I am.

Had the chance to see Thalia with Come circa 1993. Nice show.

But the opener, Caroliner, were from another world. Anyone here ever see them? They were a San Fran band, if I remember correcly. In any case, all of the members of Caroliner were dressed in masks and the entire stage (at the Lounge Ax in chicago) was decorated.

All I really remember was that the singer seemed to shriek a lot and generally make a lot of noise. Very odd, but great fun.

http://ciberia.ya.com/deepfb/almudeno69.htm

almudeno69_at_yahoo.com

Caroliner....... C/D?

He's on the Int'l Shades Hash Wednesday album, which I played several months ago, liked, and then forgot about, so I'm glad this thread is reminding me to listen again. "Time Out magazine describes the band as 'post-punk psychedelia,'" which may be the single lamest blurb I've read in my life. The band uses a lot of complicated interpolations that register as "playful" rather than "complicated," and I think the crucial adventure in this music is in its song forms and harmonic layers. Mark plays guitar and does most of the lead vocals, stripping his voice of all mannerism, which I find a strange choice; I wonder if the music might not be better with a self-involved drama queen in front. (If Lindsay Lohan gets dropped by her label, Int'l Shades could offer her the slot.) But the singing is probably made deliberately characterless so that the melodies and intervals can shine through, the voice intended to be transparent. And maybe that's what works best.

"Post-punk psych" might just mean "Fall fan who likes dreaminess, toys, and the occasional fuzz-tone."

"ILM describes the band as 'Fall fans who also like dreaminess, toys, and the occasional fuzz-tone.'"

I hope this further disputes the idea that Live Skull were grim.

Positraction is, to me, one of the only rock albums that goes beyond being emotionally cathartic music into something that feels like genuine TRAGEDY. The other albums that, for me, are in this category are Pet Sounds, Astral Weeks, and the Verlaines' Ready to Fly (another indie monolith that maybe, in part, did not get recognized as such because it was just another album put out near the end of their career).

Petition some record label to release all their stuff on CD???

Wow...I've never ever heard anyone really put down Daydream Nation...and I love Live Skull...but...Daydream Nation to me is quite a masterpiece as well as the Sister album! I think Cloud One [not Cloud Nine as I and others wrote above!!!] and Bringing Home the Bait are better than Daydream Nation in some ways but not others...Daydream Nation is kind of a once in a lifetime kind of album that captures something in a way not many bands are *lucky*? enough to be able to do...

Listening now to Positraction for the first time in 18 or 19 years (I bought the cassette in a cut-out bin ca. my senior year in high school with zero knowledge about them). It was too much for me at the time, but I just downloaded it and it's hitting all the right buttons.

In as few words as possible, what's the main difference between pre-Thalia and Thalia-inclusive versions of the band soundwise?

Never mind, this was pretty informative. Thanks, EIII

These have been reissued in CD:

Cloud One (1986)
Don't Get Any On You (1987)

The rest are waiting I think

I love LIVE SKULL

I have a CDR with the first mLP and various rarities,also live audio/video shows

wanted live video shows I don't have,just have these:

AUDIO
peel sessions 22-3-89 15Â’

7th st entry mlps 10-5-89 25' CASS

compilation of rarities,b-sides,first mLP,etc 75' CD-R *

funhouse,Denver 4-sep-96 30Â’ CASS
knitting factory NYC 23-2-89 40' CASS

Folk City NY 27-7-83 30Â’

Hung Jury Pub,Washingtong DC 18-9-86 45Â’

limelight,kortrijk,Belgium 17-2-89 60' CASS

the rocket,providence,jan-89 30Â’ CASS

uconn,storrs CT 12-nov-88 30' CASS
ULU,London,UK 23-5-86 20' CASS

VIDEO
(V)14-7-86 CBGB,NY 46'
(V)5-D clip
(V)skullfuck (o) 40'
(V)Axis,Forth Worth,Texas 21-4-89 120’-videophile-(o)?

Mark C has a new project with Stuart from Ike Yard/Dominatrix and Alice Cohen of the Vels and various other projects...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=417573830

These have been reissued in CD:

Cloud One (1986)
Don't Get Any On You (1987)

RONG

RITE

whoops

marnie is easily one of my top ten fave bass players in rock. god i love her so. fort belvedere was my total anthem when i was 16. it was everything that me and my brain were about.

i'm sad i don't have all my old vinyl. i still have cloud one and the live album on vinyl, but i no longer own the s/t, bringing home the bait, dusted, or swingtime. definitely regret getting rid of them. (i think i do have positraction on vinyl, but i never play it. i really am a s/t to dusted fan.)

I got Dusted on vinyl pretty cheaply Scott, shouldn't be too hard to replace that one. Not sure about the others.

fort belvedere was my total anthem when i was 16

That was the Live Skull first song I ever heard at about the same age cos it was on the Wailing Ultimate compilation (how great was that record BTW? Il Duce, Repulsion, Sun God, I Remember, The Well, White Elephant... that and SST's Blasting Concept Vol II were my gateway drug to the whole US indie thing).

Dusted and Snuffer are my favourite Live Skull records though. Maybe it's just the power of suggestion of the sleeve photos for Dusted, but for quite dark records they also seem full of a lot of light, albeit a light that blinds.

I hope this further disputes the idea that Live Skull were grim.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:55 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

okay hey slow reaction time but live skull were pretty fucking grim. mark c + marnie smiled about as frequently as michael gira, and while I'm not gonna say there wasn't a lot of ironic humor in what they were doing, the lyrical stance was as sour as the milk in a junkie's frigidaire. some exhibits:

what I did was wrong, I'll erase myself

little tern little tern little tern, o where will you go now
with your dress hiked up above your waist and your legs tossed loose in shameless grace
there a soft stain on the carpet where the couch meets the living room floor
there's a dead man in the hallway and his name is on the door

you said it would be different with this rope around my neck... but it's really nothing special... what else is there?

you know I'm coming
to wreck your life
to tear your face off
drive a stake through the heart of your loved one

once glass has been spit on
it's gonna get smashed
but I'm gonna get you all when I flake out
yeah I'm gonna get you all when I flake out

I go to the doctor
he lies me on the table
takes out his speculum
cold thrust of steel
infecting my organs
this is my condition
this is my condition
this is my condition
this is my condition

woo hoo party on live skull!

If I may be so bold, what Live Skull, even James 'n' Marnie era Live Skull, had that none of the other NY noise-sters did/do, is pop. Despite their walls of noise, those songs are full of hooks -- try getting "Fort Belvedere" out of your head once it gets in. And in contrast to the drawn-out sonic explorations of Sonic Youth, L.S. KNEW where they were going, so their songs are a bit more succinct. You can drive youself crazy asking why Dave Grohl is a billionaire and Tom Paine works at Taco Bell, but truly, if there were any justice in this world, Live Skull would be universal overlords of us all.

i dunno, i love the skull, but it seems super obvious why they never made any money

Looks like Bringing Home The Bait and the first EP have both just been reissued by some French label with a bunch of bouns tracks. Both up on Spotify to. Apparently the rest of the albums will follow...

http://desirerecords.bigcartel.com/artist/live-skull

Just pressed play on Bringing Home The Bait, sounds oddly contemporary thanks to the Savages album.

It sounds absolutely fucking great and a joy to hear once again, but you knew that already.

I bought a copy of Snuffer a few weeks ago.

Snuffer is underrated I think, Step is one of my favourite songs by them.

this version. THE BASS!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mayn9DAro4

played that so many times in 1983. over and over and over. couldn't get enough. it kills the studio version.

I don't actually know that first EP at all. That one wasn't on Homestead was it? Don't think that many copies would've made it to Europe.

BTW, the French label doing this reissue also recently put out an album by o13 who are Mark C's latest project (along with Stuart from Ike Yard)

oh and to be clear that youtube is the superior live speed trials verson of the song not the EP version of the song.

twenty years behind schedule, but these sound fucking great. all of my neighbors just listened to Age of Oil and Wax (they will thank me later, I'm sure).

Heck yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pe-c9t0jls

https://youtu.be/2MtVFqpFxUE

There's no way ^this isn't one of the coolest songs of 1985. Bringing Home the Bait rules so hard