Before he pointed it out that the verses in the song don't rhyme, I had never noticed, which makes me think non-rhyming lyrics can be done really well. Yet I don't hear it done that often, except in choruses.
So what gives a vocal enough gravity that it doesn't need to rhyme?
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)
Now here you go againYou say you want your freedomWell who am I to keep you downIt’s only right that you shouldPlay the way you feel itBut listen carefully to the soundOf your lonelinessLike a heartbeat.. drives you madIn the stillness of remembering what you hadAnd what you lost...And what you had...And what you lost
[whole thing]
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)
― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)
I don't see it.
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)
― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)
now here I go again, I see the crystal visions, I keep my visions to myselfit's only me who wants to wrap around your dreams and have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
crosspostdreams of loneliness, like a heartbeat, drives you madin the stillness of remembering what you had
― RJG (RJG), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)
crosspost
― RJG (RJG), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)
for some reason i always cringe once i hear the rhyme. feels like a crutch to me. also makes me feel like i am 5 years old and so the singer feels that they need to talk down to me.
maybe those are just my own issues.
― wolves (wolves), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)
― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)
An internal rhyme is where you just have the same syllable sound?
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)
Well, content for one. There are also plenty of poetic devices to keep a lyric interesting and rhythmic or whatever you want, like assonance, consonance, alliteration (cf Blackalicious), slant rhyme, use of meter. And Merritt's wrong that nonrhyming poetry's been around since Milton. In English, it's been around at least since Gawain and surely much longer.
The same stuff that makes non-rhyming song lyrics work is also the same stuff that can make prose fluid and enticing.
― JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)
― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)
Sometimes it can come off as too self-conscious, I think. I have definitely heard instances of non-rhyming where I wished it had rhymed. (Can't recall any at the moment.)
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)
― Mark E Smith (GerryNemo), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)
Okay, this right here is assonance. [good kiddy poetry tutorial]
― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)
― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)
― carly (carly), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)
PEDANT.
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)
Ha -- you should feel pleased That you didn't dead the thread. I think that's my job:I can't contribute, so I kill instead.
― JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)
― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)
How about Weezer, "Beverly Hills"? Not that that would fix everything that's awful about the song, but it'd be a start.
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)
― bsj30 (bsj30), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)
Clearly I remember picking on the boy Seemed a harmless little fuckOOh but we unleashed lion,gnahsed is teeth in with the recess lady's breastHow can I forget?And he hit me with a surprise leftMy jaw left hurtin' -- dropped wide open Just like the day I heard Jeremey spoke in class today
― bsj30 (bsj30), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)
― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)
she gets confusedflying over the dateline her hands turn redcause the days change at night change in an instant the dayschange at night change in an instant
As for Pearl Jam above, the foregrounding of narrative (compelling or not) is probably what allows it--when you're telling a story, you don't have to rhyme, it's prose (though breast/forget/left is there).
― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Friday, 23 September 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)
By the way, isn't Alanis's "difficult" follow-up album to Jagged Little Pill somewhat infamous for not having a single rhymed line?
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Friday, 23 September 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)
Well, the two are held to different standards: if you use a rhyme in a song just to be clever, it's taken (and left) as such, but if you do so in a poem, you'll be called out on it critically.
rap has shown us that you can rhyme anything with anything if you slur the endings enough
OTM.
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Saturday, 24 September 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)
When a rhyme's unexpected or surprisingly placed (dropping some syllables or carrying it one more measure than feels comfortable), it can really make for a nice formal quality.
Not that I can think of a good example of this, of course.
― JC-L (JC-L), Saturday, 24 September 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)
Search: Caedmon's Hymn
― rogermexico (rogermexico), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)
Right. I kind of hate that rhyme has come to signify whimsy. It really doesn't have to; it's just an organizing device that makes poetry what it should be: HARD TO WRITE WELL.
That's my (and Edmud Wilson's) major beef with Nabokov's literal, free-verse translation of the very rigidly rhymed Eugene Onegin (okay, this is moving into the I Love Books territory, sorry): he says, in the preface, "I sacrificed euphony for truth" etc. But euphony is half of that poem's truth and no one should have known that better than Nabokov.
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:57 (twenty years ago)
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you.
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)
― Confounded (Confounded), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)
on the other hand, rap has also been a forum for much more complex rhyming than almost any other popular music. it uses way more internal rhyming than any other genre does, and probably a lot more two- and three-syllable rhyming too.
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)
More specifically, English poetry existed for hundreds of years before rhyme became a standard organizing principle. Rhyme was just a fad for a few centuries.
― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 07:37 (twenty years ago)
― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)