How do songwriters get away with non-rhyming lyrics?

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There's a Stephen Merritt interview a few years ago where he discusses non-rhyming lyrics [here], specifically in the verses of Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams".

Before he pointed it out that the verses in the song don't rhyme, I had never noticed, which makes me think non-rhyming lyrics can be done really well. Yet I don't hear it done that often, except in choruses.

So what gives a vocal enough gravity that it doesn't need to rhyme?

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

Here's a verse from "Dreams":

Now here you go again
You say you want your freedom
Well who am I to keep you down
It’s only right that you should
Play the way you feel it
But listen carefully to the sound
Of your loneliness
Like a heartbeat.. drives you mad
In the stillness of remembering what you had
And what you lost...
And what you had...
And what you lost

[whole thing]

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

Cookie Monster vocals.

Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

C is for cookie
That's good enough for me
Cookie, cookie, cookie
Starts with C.

I don't see it.

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

What non-rhyming? I mean it's not a perfect rhyme but "down" rhymes with "sound", "mad" rhymes with "had" and "freedom" and "feelit" have the seem "ee" sounds (and the same first "f" sound for that matter) what's that called, an internal rhyme?

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

now here you go again, you say you want your freedom, well who am I to keep you down?
it's only right that you should play the way you feel it but listen carefully to the sound
of your loneliness, like a heartbeat, drives you mad
in the stillness of remembering what you had

now here I go again, I see the crystal visions, I keep my visions to myself
it's only me who wants to wrap around your dreams and have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

crosspost
dreams of loneliness, like a heartbeat, drives you mad
in the stillness of remembering what you had

RJG (RJG), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Okay, say "Dreams" is a poor example, and I am now realizing such. Are there examples of non-rhyming lyrics that work?

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

oh, and freedom/feel it, too, I didn't notice

crosspost

RJG (RJG), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

ts: songs with rhyming lyrics vs. songs with non-rhyming lyrics.

for some reason i always cringe once i hear the rhyme. feels like a crutch to me. also makes me feel like i am 5 years old and so the singer feels that they need to talk down to me.

maybe those are just my own issues.

wolves (wolves), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

Jonathan Richman is a master of the sort of rhyme that appeals to the five-year-old within the listener.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

"freedom" and "feelit" have the seem "ee" sounds (and the same first "f" sound for that matter) what's that called, an internal rhyme?

An internal rhyme is where you just have the same syllable sound?

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

So what gives a vocal enough gravity that it doesn't need to rhyme?

Well, content for one. There are also plenty of poetic devices to keep a lyric interesting and rhythmic or whatever you want, like assonance, consonance, alliteration (cf Blackalicious), slant rhyme, use of meter. And Merritt's wrong that nonrhyming poetry's been around since Milton. In English, it's been around at least since Gawain and surely much longer.

The same stuff that makes non-rhyming song lyrics work is also the same stuff that can make prose fluid and enticing.

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

i don't see what there is to get away with. plenty of singers have non-rhyming verses.

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

i don't see what there is to get away with. plenty of singers have non-rhyming verses.

Sometimes it can come off as too self-conscious, I think. I have definitely heard instances of non-rhyming where I wished it had rhymed. (Can't recall any at the moment.)

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Just say "-aah" at the end of every line.

Mark E Smith (GerryNemo), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

I don't recall any of Bjork's songs rhyming.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

They do in Icelandic.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

"freedom" and "feelit" have the seem "ee" sounds (and the same first "f" sound for that matter) what's that called, an internal rhyme?

An internal rhyme is where you just have the same syllable sound?

Okay, this right here is assonance. [good kiddy poetry tutorial]

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

"Pagan Poetry" rhymes in English, I think. I'm pretty sure most of them do, it was just the first one that came to mind.

Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

damn i was going to say assonance. first time in forever i had something to contribute to an ilm thread.

carly (carly), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

They do in Icelandic.

PEDANT.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

David Byrne to thread!

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

The Go-Betweens' "Cattle & Cane" is a good example.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 23 September 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

damn i was going to say assonance. first time in forever i had something to contribute to an ilm thread.

Ha -- you should feel pleased
That you didn't dead the thread.
I think that's my job:
I can't contribute, so I kill instead.

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

After reading JC-L's excellent little post upthread, I found this explanation interesting.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

instances of non-rhyming where I wished it had rhymed

How about Weezer, "Beverly Hills"? Not that that would fix everything that's awful about the song, but it'd be a start.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

I think "Jeremy" by Pearl Jam is a good example of non-rhyming lyrics.

bsj30 (bsj30), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

Here's the lyrics to the second verse of Jeremy. I think it works because the lyrics tell a compelling story. Eddie Vedder's vocals make it work too.

Clearly I remember picking on the boy
Seemed a harmless little fuck
OOh but we unleashed lion,
gnahsed is teeth in with the recess lady's breast
How can I forget?
And he hit me with a surprise left
My jaw left hurtin' -- dropped wide open
Just like the day I heard
Jeremey spoke in class today

bsj30 (bsj30), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

why not is my question?

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

I think X had a lot of non-rhyming lyrics. The fact that Exene (John Doe too, maybe?) identified as a poet probably allowed her to see this as normal. "Los Angeles" for instance started with too/Jew, but then you get shit/rich, friend/left, and that's it. Chorus:

she gets confused
flying over the dateline her hands turn red
cause the days change at night change in an instant the days
change at night change in an instant

As for Pearl Jam above, the foregrounding of narrative (compelling or not) is probably what allows it--when you're telling a story, you don't have to rhyme, it's prose (though breast/forget/left is there).

These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Friday, 23 September 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Good question... but I'm more surprised that rhyming lyrics are still a near-requirement in songwriting, considering that English-language poetry pretty much gave up on it. I always felt that too many words rhyme in English anyway (Russian poetry still clings to rhyme - it's rarer and thus more pleasurable). And now rap has shown us that you can rhyme anything with anything if you slur the endings enough.

By the way, isn't Alanis's "difficult" follow-up album to Jagged Little Pill somewhat infamous for not having a single rhymed line?

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Friday, 23 September 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm more surprised that rhyming lyrics are still a near-requirement in songwriting, considering that English-language poetry pretty much gave up on it.

Well, the two are held to different standards: if you use a rhyme in a song just to be clever, it's taken (and left) as such, but if you do so in a poem, you'll be called out on it critically.

rap has shown us that you can rhyme anything with anything if you slur the endings enough

OTM.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Saturday, 24 September 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

I think where rhyming lyrics really stumble is when the lines have the same number of syllables, similar or identical accents, etc. That leads to the sing-song-y nursery rhyme feel.

When a rhyme's unexpected or surprisingly placed (dropping some syllables or carrying it one more measure than feels comfortable), it can really make for a nice formal quality.

Not that I can think of a good example of this, of course.

JC-L (JC-L), Saturday, 24 September 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

Merritt's wrong that nonrhyming poetry's been around since Milton. In English, it's been around at least since Gawain and surely much longer.

Search: Caedmon's Hymn

rogermexico (rogermexico), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

but if you do so in a poem, you'll be called out on it critically.

Right. I kind of hate that rhyme has come to signify whimsy. It really doesn't have to; it's just an organizing device that makes poetry what it should be: HARD TO WRITE WELL.

That's my (and Edmud Wilson's) major beef with Nabokov's literal, free-verse translation of the very rigidly rhymed Eugene Onegin (okay, this is moving into the I Love Books territory, sorry): he says, in the preface, "I sacrificed euphony for truth" etc. But euphony is half of that poem's truth and no one should have known that better than Nabokov.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:57 (twenty years ago)

I kind of hate that rhyme has come to signify whimsy. It really doesn't have to; it's just an organizing device that makes poetry what it should be: HARD TO WRITE WELL.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)

These later responses... well, all responses -- very helpful. Thanks.

Confounded (Confounded), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)

rap has shown us that you can rhyme anything with anything if you slur the endings enough

on the other hand, rap has also been a forum for much more complex rhyming than almost any other popular music. it uses way more internal rhyming than any other genre does, and probably a lot more two- and three-syllable rhyming too.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)

Merritt's wrong that nonrhyming poetry's been around since Milton. In English, it's been around at least since Gawain and surely much longer.

More specifically, English poetry existed for hundreds of years before rhyme became a standard organizing principle. Rhyme was just a fad for a few centuries.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 07:37 (twenty years ago)

three-syllable rhyming too
My favorite song with three-syllable rhyming (feminine rhyme? triple rhyme?) is Richard Thompson's "Valerie."

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 27 September 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)


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