What "No Wave" album would you tell someone to get to convince them to like "No Wave"?????

Anyways I always preferred the Birthday Party.

And for the record, I don't think Glenn Branca fits in with the no-wave scene at all; he always seemed too big and Romantic for it.

I didn't know that was possible. ;-) I'd say No New York but I guess everyone will disagree. I'd pick it because it has four different groups on it so you're (hopefully) bound to like one of'em.

what years do people asign to nowave? i always thought it to be a pre-80 deal. noisy, rhythmic, unconstructed. the 'no new york' comp, i thought came out towards the end of the scene, and that was 79 wasn't it?

aside from that, i'd say -- concerning the initial question -- give up, if your friends don't like no-wave, don't push it.

Sorry for gratuitous weblog-plugging.

but i also wouldn't say it's true that Russell and LL have more in common w/ Afrika Baambaata, there's plenty of pretty out there stuff from those two, Russell obv. has entire records of non-dance material, but even on 24-24 Music has some pretty crazy tracks, while LL had stuff like Scraper.

what then is the definition of no wave? things from new york between 77 and 82? can there be british no wave? (i often see the box described as british no wave.) i concede that a debate merely about how to apply a genre title could _seem_ to be useless; but it has its actual use. it does get you to think about what is in the music.

also, why is ESG no wave? is it just because they were on 99?

There is no concrete definition of no wave, though this has been debated endlessly, I'll try to sum it up. Some people think no wave specifically means the bands on No New York. To expand it, you could include the soho no wave scene and some just post no new york stuff. Theoretical Girls, Red Transistor, Blinding Headaches, Interference, imPLOG!, Ike Yard, V-Effect, early Sonic Youth etc. Some people expand it to include the Ze/99 records funk stuff because it comes from the same period and because James Chance supplies a tidy crossover. Liquid Liquid, ESG, Konk etc.

Maybe it was a sound/zeitgeist, either anti-music anti-punk post-punk, or noisy post-punk with influences from outside of rock, free jazz, funk and disco, dub. In that case, the Pop Group or the Fire Engines are 2 obvious suggestions for worldwide no wave.

but I'm sure if you search the archives you can find this debate, or ask ilxor Tim Ellison about his discussions with Weasel Walter in his Modern Rock Magazine.

has some more info/discussions on this topic

I wouldn't say that's accurate. People bandy names like the Birthday Party and the Pop Group as being "no wave," but it's simply not the case. While those bands plumb a similar aesthetic (and are equally brilliant, if not more so), the term "no wave' refers specifically to an elite coterie of NYC bands. "No Wave", unlike the terms "Punk" or "Metal" or "Disco" or whathaveyou, adheres to one distinct period occuring in one distinct place.

No wave may have initially referred to a specific scene, just as punk did, but it doesn't have to stay that way.

those links don't really clarify much, unfortunately. it seems people pushed it even further and tried to include the desperate bicycles, ut, blonde redhead and arab on radar (those last two being the greatest stretch just for time period).

i still see it as a time period / location thing.

this has reminded me. does anyone know anything about disturbed furniture?

I guess I just think of it as a sound/aesthetic maybe because I got into it much later? Perhaps Alex coming from NYC has a more provincial take on it?

Liquid Liquid and Konk came out of a specific scene that while influenced by funk or latin music, was very much in the same downtown scene as the no wave bands in a way that Afrikaa Baambaata did not. There's crossover sure, Konk were on Sleeping Bag which would eventually be better known for freestyle/hip-hop/club sounds then the weird Russell tracks. Look, I don't think Liquid Liquid sound anything like "no wave" as you hear it on No New York, of course the bands on No New York don't sound so much like each other either. But for 20 years Liquid Liquid and ESG were grouped with No Wave. Bambaata was not.

Ut has A LOT to do with No Wave, they may have been the last NYC no wave band. Nina Canal played in the Gynaecologists with Rhys Chatham and hell, brought Eno to all those shows where he was exposed to the No New York bands apparently.

Arab On Radar, the Locust, Erase Erratta, Ex-Models are just a few recent bands who obviously draw from no wave influences. Some people call them no wave. I used to argue with them. Now, I could care less!

Playing "baggy" music in the early 90's didn't immediately render a band part of the "Madchester" scene. Likewise, adopting a skronky, deliberately atonal, anti-traditional aesthetic to your music doesn't make you a "No Wave" band. There have certainly been leagues of bands who've been influenced by the "No Wave" bands since then, but that doesn't make them "No Wave". There is no "No Wave" anymore. Or should I say there's No No Wave No More.

i wish they had made an album.

Search also for Von LMO,Material,Lounge Lizards(early),Love of Life Orchestra,
Skeleton Crew

www.freewebs.com/almudeno69

I dunno, I think trying to "convince" someone to like No Wave would only make 'em hate it all the more. That's the way I'd react, anyways - because it's all about the confrontationalism, isn't it? But No New York's as good a place to start as any, just because it's four different bands with four different approaches. And three songs by each gives a better picture of each, than would a single track. So mathematically it's ideal.

downtown 81 stk is super-accessible