Was mainstream music better in the 80s?

ha, this turned up in my email box today:

SMASH HITS 7 returns Thursday 27th October

Those of you in the London area might like to know that SMASH HITS 7
is back next week, following the success of the first night in
September. Here are the details...

"SMASH HITS 7"
@ Nambucca, 596 Holloway Road, London N7

An unashamedly retro night devoted to the BEST music covered by SMASH
HITS magazine in its first seven years (1978-1985).

That means five hours (7pm-midnight) of classic new wave, electro, new
romanticism, post-punk and pop by the likes of:

BLONDIE - DURAN DURAN - DAVID BOWIE - PRINCE - JAPAN
HUMAN LEAGUE - SOFT CELL - ABC - SPECIALS - MADONNA
SMITHS - PET SHOP BOYS - ROXY MUSIC - ASSOCIATES - JAM
ADAM & THE ANTS - SIOUXSIE & THE BANSHEES - CURE
JOY DIVISION - DEPECHE MODE - STYLE COUNCIL - KATE BUSH
PSYCHEDELIC FURS - SPARKS - NEW ORDER - GRACE JONES
ECHO & THE BUNNYMEN - TUBEWAY ARMY - STEPHEN DUFFY
VISAGE - SPANDAU BALLET - DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS
TOM TOM CLUB - DEAD OR ALIVE - BAUHAUS - CULT - YAZOO
DONNA SUMMER - CLASH - KRAFTWERK - ALTERED IMAGES
SCRITTI POLITTI - OMD - HEAVEN 17 - PROPAGANDA - and more!

Admission is completely FREE

5% of the price of each drink bought goes to the SAVE THE CHILDREN
charity

Old copies of SMASH HITS from the era will be around the venue, and
classic videos will be shown on the big screen by the dancefloor

And as it'll be Simon Le Bon's birthday that night, you can expect a
little more Duran Duran than usual!

For more details, e.g. how to get there, playlists, etc, please visit
the website:

http://www.smashhits7.com

Hope you can make it!

This is hugely incorrect.

cannibal ox destroys mainstream crap of the 00s

-- Sociah T Azzahole

OTM. Music as one big grab bag seemed to make the 'mainstream' a lot more open-minded, instead of the situation now, where everything is being stratified into it's own little 'speciality' channel. And 'mainstream' music being much, much more of a homogeonous beast.

What would you choose?

Moreover, when I think Mainstream 80's, I don't think of either of those bands (Berlin & Modern English). Mainstream 80's to me says insufferable crap like The Outfield, Huey Lews & the News, Cutting Crew, Color Me Badd, Bobby Brown, New Edition, Taylor Dane, Starship, etc.

:-( Alex would have hated me in the 80s. Would it help if I confessed I was also obsessed with Ice T? ;-)

This does not paint a rosy picture.

take my breath away is gorgeous, so is I'll melt with you....

Steve M's point is important - were things less sewn up by 'the biz' then?

Just me then? Interested in differences between the US/UK/EU here, and indeed other markets (although that could end up a whole other thread).

Was mainstream music better in the 60s?
-- Newsletter pen pal, October 17th, 1985 3:24 PM. (later)

Was mainstream music better in the 50s?
-- Bathroom graffiti writer, October 17th, 1975 2:04 AM. (later)

"That's the absolute last thing it needs to be."

I guess you're right, Tom. And it will be a nice thread on its own.
Making lists of mainstream music from the 80's and the 00's is quite easy to do, but I just can't think of many things I could put on a list for the 90's.

Any of these #1s would've been acceptable:

Sheena Easton - "Morning Train (Nine to Five)"
Christopher Cross - "Arthur's Theme (The Best That You Can Do)"
Lionel Richie - "All Night Long (All Night)"
Culture Club - "Karma Chameleon"
Billy Ocean - "Carribean Queen (No More Love on the Run)"
Phil Collins - "One More Night"
REO Speedwagon - "Can't Fight This Feeling"
Patti LaBelle & Michael McDonald - "On My Own"
Cutting Crew - "(I Just) Died in Your Arms"
Milli Vanilli - "Blame it on the Rain" or "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You"

Lonestar - "Amazed"
Mariah Carey - "Thank God I Found You"
Sisqo - "Incomplete"
Creed - "With Arms Wide Open"
Christina/Pink/Mya/Kim - "Lady Marmalade"
Ja Rule f/ Ashanti - "Always on Time"
Jennifer Lopez f/ Ja Rule - "Ain't it Funny"
Nelly f/ Kelly Rowland - "Dilemma"
B2K f/ P. Diddy - "Bump, Bump, Bump"
50 Cent f/ Olivia - "The Candy Shop"

hm, tough one.

people want to put lots of cheesy music from 90s into the 80s...C&C Music Factory also gets shuffled into the 80s, as does Vanilla Ice...

Is that right? They seem so late 80's to me.

(although no year will ever top 1984).

I'd say that 2000-2005 has been the best period for both mainstream and indie pop since 1982-1987. Let's pretend that everything from Nevermind to the week before Kid A was released never happened, shall we?

And yeah, it seems like the fluent break in between the 80s and the 90s happened sometime in mid-'91 (I'm thinking more in terms of Jesus Jones and Boyz II Men than Nirvana, though--they just sealed the deal).

that's dumb!

And if we break the 90s in '98, would that make them the shortest decade in musical history?

hey, let's read a little bit closer

Contrary to what you read now, white critics never had problems with hip-hop; look at the Pazz & Jop polls in 1981 and 1982. Grandmaster Flash and Africa Bambaata were respected because They Said Something, as opposed to the purported hummable meaninglessness of Quarterflash or Men Without Hats.

I think so. In my mind the '90s ended on 9-11, before which Napster, Radiohead, and George W. Bush conquered the world.

I'm guessing most people who say the 80s are the greatest are 30 - 40 years old?

I'm sure you can find great bands/albums/singles in any decade if you care to.

I am very intimately familiar with someone who would go completely against that theory of yours. In other words, hi, I'm in my mid 20s and if you were to ask me what my favorite decade is/was, I'd say the '80s without hesitation. Most of what I listen to that's "new" is in fact very heavily '80s influenced. My idea of heaven would be to be magically transported to 1983 Britain and be a teenager during that time period. My idea of hell, conversely, would be to be transported to mid-'70s middle America.

I think the '80s appeals more to me because even the teen-friendly radio pop was more sophisticated than it seems to have been anytime in the history of teen-friendly radio pop. With few exceptions, of course -- I cannot abide by New Edition, for example. But when you think of who were the major teen magazine pinups in the '80s, you think of OMD, you think of Nik Kershaw, you think of Duran and Spandau and Ultravox and many other well-coiffed men who dress up in glamourous suits and look as though they've stepped out of a James Bond fantasy boot camp. These are the young men who worshipped and idolized Bryan Ferry and David Bowie while dancing their butts off to Chic and other cultured disco superstars. And the 15-year-old in me still looks to these pop icons as gold standards, not only for the music I end up listening to but also for my ideal guy, period.

Let me introduce you to a lil lady by the name of Margaret Thatcher.

Well, let me introduce you to a man by the name of George W. Bush -- which one would induce more fear in your average human being?

Anyway. I mentioned "Britain" because that's where the synthpop and New Romantic/New Wave music I love the most was the most commercially accepted. In America, the charts were still stacked with The Same Old Same Old (Michael Jackson, Journey, REO Speedwagon, etc.), but in Britain synthpop's glitter was transformed into chart gold. But hey, anywhere in America where the teens were clamoring for synth-based music inspired by Roxy/Bowie would be ideal for my fantasy DeLorean time warp, too. I was one of those Nineties Teenagers who was rather unhappy about being in the '90s at the time while daydreaming of being an Eighties Teen. And as long as I could be that '80s teen, hey, I'd be happy in Night Ranger Land.

Ok, point taken re: "you can find great music in any decade" (though I'd find the '70s a difficult challenge there), but I suppose I must fall under the whole "exception to the rule" umbrella with the second part of that because I didn't even become a teenager until the closing hours of 1992, and I wasn't aware of contemporary pop music when I was a little girl in the '80s. I suppose your theory would be the one that would work with people who are more in tune with their own generation. There are people out there who are alienated from the majority of their generational peers, though.

(I suspect this is rapidly turning into another thread.)

Back then established bands like Status Quo and Cliff had top ten hits because they still got major airplay and TV coverage. Now they have top 20 hits purely and only because of a devoted fanbase of people over 45. The Pet Shop Boys could not have started releasing records ten years after they did and had anywhere near the same level of success.

So one way to compare the two periods is to think of successful pop stars in the 80s who did not fit a particular paradigm of 'sexiness' or even just that of not being 'ugly' - and try and imagine the equivalent today. James Blunt can't (and don't really seem to) be considered ugly and nor can Chris Martin or Alex Kapranos (not sure about the rest of the band in those last two cases though heh). There are no ugly women in the top ten (Michelle McManus was practically a charity record outfit) ever now - everyone looks good and appears to have had a huge amount of thought put into their image. That's the main difference and it's a factor in the dearth of intelligent yet good pop songs by people with more brains than looks.

But what's been big in the last three years that you think might seem particularly odd in 20 years?

The first sentence is a generalization: a lot of those British synth-pop hits made the Top 10 in England; in fact, in 1983-1984 their influence was so pronounced that the likes of Pat Benatar and Billy Ocean were buying keytars. And as much as I love Bowie-Ferry influenced pop, the amount of great R&B records released in the mid '80s by Michael Jackson, Luther Vandross, the nascent Jimmy Jam-Terry Lewis production team, among others (that's not even counting rap hits), is every bit as poptastic as the hits influenced by the Bowie-Ferry axis.

not quite Ferry/Bowie inspired but the apparently enormous popularity of Depeche Mode in the mid-late 80s in the US (selected areas only perhaps) suggests synth-pop had made some in-roads?

But the 70s is still my pick for superior mainstream music decade.

*er, "made the Top 10 in America"

1 Tony Christie Feat. Peter Kay - (Is This The Way To) Amirillo 1,090,500
2 Crazy Frog - Axel F 523,100
3 James Blunt - You're Beautiful 436,000
4 McFly - All About You / You've Got A Friend 333,300
5 Akon - Lonely 331,400
6 2Pac ft. Elton John - Ghetto Gospel 268,300
7 Pussycat Dolls Ft Busta Rhymes - Don't Cha 265,500
8 Gorillaz - Feel Good Inc. 245,400
9 Daniel Powter - Bad Day 226,200
10 Will Smith - Switch 193,400
11 Bodyrockers - I Like The Way 173,900
12 Mario - Let Me Love You 157,700
13 Snoop Dogg & JT - Signs 156,700
14 Nelly & Tim McGraw - Over and over 156,400
15 Jennifer Lopez - Get right 155,700
16 Audio Bullys - Shot You Down 155,500
17 Mariah Carey - We Belong Together 149,900
18 Black Eyed Peas - Don't Phunk With My Heart 144,700
19 Sugababes - Push The Button 142,700
20 50 Cent - Candy Shop 131,600
21 Oasis - Lyla 130,300
22 Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone 121,100
23 Charlotte Church - Crazy Chick 118,100
24 M.V.P - Rock Ya Body Mic Check 1, 2 115,800
25 Stereophonics - Dakota 111,900
26 Rhianna - Pon De Reply 109,800
27 Amerie - 1 Thing 108,100
28 Gorillaz - Dare 105,100
29 Oasis - The Importance of Being Idle 104,400
30 Coldplay - Speed of Sound 103,600
31 Razorlight - Somewhere Else 101,600
32 Ciara - 1, 2 Step 98,900
33 Eminem - Like toy soldiers 98,400
34 Gwen Stefani - Hollaback Girl 95,300
35 Gwen Stefani feat. Eve - Rich Girl 94,300
36 50 Cent ft. The Game - Hate it or Love it 93,600
37 Sean Paul - We Be Burnin' 91,700
38 McFly - I'll Be Ok 82,900
39 Akon - Locked Up 82,000
40 Green Day - Wake Me Up When September Ends 81,600
41 Jem - They 80,600
42 Chemical Brothers - Galvinize 80,300
43 Missy Elliott - Lose Control 80,200
44 Sunset Strippers - Falling Stars 78,400
45 Studio B - I See Girls 78,300
46 Ciara - Goodies 77,300
47 Foo Fighters - Best of You 76,800
48 Mariah Carey - It's Like That 76,000
49 Brian Mcfadden & Delta Goodrem - Almost here 75,800
50 Mylo vs Miami Sound Machine - Doctor Pressure 74,800

What will think of "Lonely" in 20 years? The video clip to "Lose Control"? "Shot You Down"? The entire concept of Gorillaz?

I'm not sure, maybe these will all seem really commonplace, but maybe not. I think hip hop will provide more examples of naff charm than other areas of music.

Sometimes I think that something happened in the mid-90s that mortally wounded naff charm. Like, the early 90s is still brilliantly bad fashion, but I don't know if we would cringe looking back on the mid-90s now as we would have in 1995 looking back on the mid-80s (the Britpop haircut a possible exception, but then I was surprised at how predominant it remains in London!).

But it's still too soon to really know.

1. "Careless Whisper" - Wham!
2. "Say You, Say Me" - Lionel Richie
3. "Separate Lives" - Phil Collins & Marilyn Martin
4. "I Want To Know What Love Is" - Foreigner
5. "Money For Nothing" - Dire Straits
6. "We Are The World" - USA for Africa
7. "Broken Wings" - Mr. Mister
8. "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" - Tears for Fears
9. "The Power Of Love" - Huey Lewis & The News
10. "We Built This City" - Starship
11. "St. Elmo's Fire" - John Parr
12. "Can't Fight This Feeling" - REO Speedwagon
13. "Crazy For You" - Madonna
14. "Easy Lover" - Phillip Bailey & Phil Collins
15. "Everytime You Go Away" - Paul Young
16. "Don't You (Forget About Me): - Simple Minds
17. "Take On Me" - a-ha
18. "Party All The Time" - Eddie Murphy
19. "Everything She Wants" - Wham!
20. "Shout" - Tears for Fears
21. "Alive and Kicking" - Simple Minds
22. "I Miss You" - Klymaxx
23. "Sea Of Love" - Honeydrippers
24. "Cool It Now" - New Edition
25. "Part-Time Lover" - Stevie Wonder
26. "Saving All My Love For You" - Whitney Houston
27. "Sussudio" - Phil Collins
28. "Oh Sheila" - Ready for the World
29. "A View To A Kill" - Duran Duran
30. "One More Night" - Phil Collins
31. "Cherish" - Kool & The Gang
32. "Heaven" - Bryan Adams
33. "The Heat Is On" - Glenn Frey
34. "Raspberry Beret" - Prince & The Revolution
35. "You're The Inspiration" - Chicago
36. "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free" - Sting
37. "Miami Vice Theme" - Jan Hammer
38. "Freeway Of Love" - Aretha Franklin
39. "Don't Lose My Number" - Phil Collins
40. "Never" - Heart
41. "Things Can Only Get Better" - Howard Jones
42. "The Boys Of Summer" - Don Henley
43. "Rhythm Of The Night" - DeBarge
44. "We Don't Need Another Hero" - Tina Turner
45. "We Belong" - Pat Benatar
46. "Loverboy" - Billy Ocean
47. "All I Need" - Jack Wagner
48. "One Night In Bangkok" - Murray Head
49. "Never Surrender" - Corey Hart
50. "Lovergirl" - Teena Marie

these are all at least pretty good, and a good deal of them are quite great.

https://www.statsignificant.com/p/when-do-we-stop-finding-new-music

Survey research from European streaming service Deezer indicates that music discovery peaks at 24, with survey respondents reporting increased variety in their music rotation during this time. However, after this age, our ability to keep up with music trends typically declines, with respondents reporting significantly lower levels of discovery in their early thirties. Ultimately, the Deezer study pinpoints 31 as the age when musical tastes start to stagnate.

do not go gently into that 6music playlist

Rage against taste freeze!