I have come to the conclusion that I am a rockist.

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Though initially it seemed like a term that was too loaded for any too people to agree upon, I finally undertook to figure out just what all the fuss was about this "rockism", and despite a slew of basically useless information, I think I read enough "definitions" by enough different people that I can triangulate a definition for myself, and start thinking, more abstractly, about its implications. And the more I think about it, the more and more I'm seeing just how appropriate this hateful word is to articulating how I consume and appreciate music. A few things:

Firstly, I'm no skinny-tie-and-denim Estrus obsessive, and I always thought the garage/punk revival of whenever the hell it was (2001? 2002?) was sketchy at best, truly awful at worst. I do NOT believe that there was ever a golden age when rock musicians "got it right," and if there was I don't think it was the same era as that of the Beatles, the Stones, "Nuggets," et al.
Secondly, I am no guitar-guitar-drums snob, no backward-looking, back-to-the garage music primitivist. I absorb all kinds of music but my favorite by far is that which looks unashamedly forward: Disco Inferno, Seefeel, Kraftwerk, Sigur Ros--you get the idea.
Thirdly, as a fairly enlightened person, I can safely say I am not homophobic, racist, or sexist, three criticisms which are, apparently, frequently lobbed at rockists.

And yet: this ideal of authenticity, this expectation of artists to shy away from artifice and camp, this elevation of "high art" music like Talk Talk over "pop art" music like Kelis or M.I.A., this distrust of the mass-marketed, this high hope for rock music to change my life and be as immediate to me when I'm twenty, thirty, forty years old as it is when I hear it (which can sometimes be twenty, thirty, forty years after it was recorded)--to varying extent, I display all these characteristics and then some. I can come to no other conclusion than that I am a rockist.

The questions then, are as follows:
-Should I feel bad about this?
-If so, why can't I convince myself?

I was introduced to music through punk rock and at the heart of my love for music remains a need to be affected. I DO go on bike rides with my CD player hoping to gain some kind of revelation, or at least a peak experience (it's happened). I love pop music in its many forms, but I'm coming to realize: chiefly to the extent that it conforms to this idea, this impulse to find the music which attacks my heart and soul and brain and leaves me different from how it found me. This *is* rockism, isn't it? This *is* elitism in a way, isn't it? I much prefer M.I.A. to AC/DC, I'll grant, but I prefer Bark Psychosis to both. There are exceptions, of course--enough that the picture of me this post paints is probably very different from the genuine article. But I STILL have a mistrust of prog and MOR and pop songs whose author works for the label, and I would STILL rather hear the Minutemen than Madonna, or, to use an example I found someplace on the internet, Nirvana rather than Mariah. If this is rockism (and it must be), why does it seem so normal, even... right to me? Believe me, this post has nothing to do with ME, but this idea has suddenly acquired a tremendous (probably moreso than is warranted) importance in my mind.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Thursday, 20 October 2005 18:39 (eighteen years ago) link

We've done this already.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 20 October 2005 18:42 (eighteen years ago) link

What he said. The search function is also working again!

I much prefer M.I.A. to AC/DC, I'll grant, but I prefer Bark Psychosis to both.

Then relax and be comfortable with your tastes. Anyone complaining to you about your tastes is just jealous that they're not comfortable with their own. (The exception is liking the Dave Matthews Band, which is grounds for exile.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 October 2005 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link

cool owen.i have come to the conclusion that i am an anti-popist. whatever anyone else's conclusion is, good on you... and can we forget about this subject forever please.

:)

jed_ (jed), Thursday, 20 October 2005 18:47 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread will either die very quickly or turn stupid very quickly.

Prefering what you perceive as art over craft or substance over surface feels normal or natural or right because on some level, for you, it's a pre-conscious assumption, like it is for lots of people. It's wrapped up in why some music gives you more joy than others. If it's Rockist or not doesn't matter a flying toss, because if Rockism's got any use as a word it's not about describing a person's subjective pleasures. All it's useful for, or was ever useful for, is labelling a kind of critic who acts like those subjective values (art over craft or substance over surface) aren't subjective and limited but are universal, Platonic truths. Which isn't what you're saying, owen, so, like Rock On.

Nöödle Vägue (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 October 2005 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link

this impulse to find the music which attacks my heart and soul and brain and leaves me different from how it found me. This *is* rockism, isn't it? This *is* elitism in a way, isn't it?

I share those same impulses, yet I embrace a lot of stuff which you are 'suspicious' of. The mechanism behind the production for me is invisible, I've only got the liner notes say so that it was written and produced by the artist and not some jobbing sessioneer/production team so in that respect I don't see the opposition between MIA and AC/DC or your other examples. What matters to me is how well it 'attacks my heart and soul'.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

I think one of the aspects of rockism which isn't discussed much is it's dislike of anonymity. Even in the appreciation of Girls Aloud/Rachel Stevens etc on Ilm there's a focus on the auteurs behind the production as much as the 'front end'. A need to show that something has been crafted by artisans and not just cynically plucked out of thin air.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, and that's really another Rockism. It's about time intentionality was dropped as a critical trope altogether.

Nöödle Vägue (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:14 (eighteen years ago) link

and can we forget about this subject forever please.

owen, sorry if i sounded like i was being dismissive of your post which i actually liked alot!

jed_ (jed), Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

What does "rockist" mean?

kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Say "Candyman!" three times into a mirror and the guy who shows up will tell you.

George the Animal Steele, Thursday, 20 October 2005 19:24 (eighteen years ago) link

It's okay, jed. Short answer: my computer is too slow to handle a search on ILM for keyword: rockism. I didn't mean to rehash what everyone else must be tired of; it's just me thinking hard about hard subjects for the first time ever. You know how it is. I wasn't only looking for affirmation or something like that. It just seemd, you know. Important.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Thursday, 20 October 2005 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link

the only issue i have with rockism is that many rockists are unwilling to give certain genres even a chance, which is an obvious point. the problem i have with some popists sometimes is that they seem to be incurious about music that's not immediately rewarding, and their musical worldview only extends slightly beyond the top 40 and Spin magazine.

gear (gear), Thursday, 20 October 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

not talking about anyone on ILM of course.

gear (gear), Thursday, 20 October 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

seriously.

gear (gear), Thursday, 20 October 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't believe you. (Wait, I do.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 October 2005 21:31 (eighteen years ago) link

STAY OUTTA RIVERDALE

http://www.26pigs.com/archie/lg-archie.JPG

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Thursday, 20 October 2005 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link

the only issue i have with rockism is that many rockists are unwilling to give certain genres even a chance, which is an obvious point. the problem i have with some popists sometimes is that they seem to be incurious about music that's not immediately rewarding, and their musical worldview only extends slightly beyond the top 40 and Spin magazine.

gear OTM. can we just post that to every rockism/popism thread and lock the thread?

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 October 2005 21:34 (eighteen years ago) link

m@tt otm!

gear (gear), Thursday, 20 October 2005 22:03 (eighteen years ago) link

up

up, Friday, 21 October 2005 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link

After watching The Power Of Nightmares I realised I was a neocon.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 21 October 2005 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link

after reading ilx i realized that people have an incredible capacity for thinking other people give a flying fuck about what they are.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 21 October 2005 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link

It took ILX for that? Try working in a university. "I'm a doctor." "Cure my ills then, you pretentious cunt."

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 21 October 2005 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, I feel like I should defend myself here. I was trying NOT to make it a narcissistic post, and I KNOW nobody in cyberspace cares about my own music crises or whatever. I just wanted to hear something thoughtful on the subject from other people who care about MUSIC, because I feel like by the time I found this site it was at the point where somebody says "rockism!" and everyone giggles to themselves and returns to the subject at hand, comfortable in the knowledge that they got the joke. Or something.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it's more the sense of self-identifying with a troublesome construct which is causing the giggles or otherwise -- in otherwards, why label yourself when it is not necessary?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I like your post, Owen.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

So is it now like hip to be rockist then?

nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know whether I'm coming or going anymore

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I like it too - no need to defend yourself.

Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess what I was trying to say and probably COULD have said much more succinctly was that "rockist" seems like such an onerous term, something akin to "fascist" these days, where it is vague enough and the original meaning broadened and deepened enough that you (not you personally, of course) can use it as a catch-all to describe anyone who you don't get along with; the question might have been better worded as, "if it's such an odious term then why as a music lover who considers himself basically open-minded and unprejudiced do I find it such a reasonable stance to take?"
HOWEVER. I don't feel any need to continue this post; I am still troubled by this, but that is, so I hear, perfectly normal, and possibly something I cannot resolve simply through the magic of the internet (ridiculous, I know).

Also, the thread title was just to get attention; I'm not really so naive as to be able to say something like that and believe it for more than about seventeen seconds.

As a postscript, the second "too" in the first sentence should have been a "two."

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Friday, 21 October 2005 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.