― SOS, Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
(See, I didn't even mention B***'s "L****")
― Brian MacDonald, Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
But as the technology to allow people to make professional sounding recordings on their home computers becomes more prevalent, 'bedroom' singles will certainly flourish more.
― N., Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tim DiGravina, Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Re. Jyoti Mishra - I'm surprised he doesn't post here. I think it's the kind of board he'd like.
― David Inglesfield, Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mr Noodles, Saturday, 23 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― michael, Sunday, 24 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
(the moment I realised Jyoti was a spiritual soulmate, incidentally, was when he reviewed the singles in Melody Maker and said of some forgotten band "They're from High Wycombe, I wonder if they know Howard Jones?", which shows that, like me, he's the type who memorises things nobody wants to remember and gets a bit embarrassed about knowing them.)
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 24 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Nobody's mentioned that Alizee "Moi Lolita" has the same base/rythymn bed as Your Woman. Or maybe it's been on Pop-Eye?
― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Re: the HoJo comment, EVERYONE knows that HoJo comes from High bloody Wycombe. I was taken out to dinner by US PRs and record company people a few years ago when interviewing the Cure in Oxford, and sho'nuff we got to the Indian restaurant to find HoJo and lovely wife in attendance at the table. I was so embarrassed, I thought I was going to ask if he stil fed his dog veggie pet food...
― suzy, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Good to see Suzy keeping up her usual accepting attitude to the whole of the UK and absence of metropolitan snobbery, isn't it?
― Robin Carmody, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Alan T, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― gareth, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― suzy, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link
:-(
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link
why do you like it?
― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link
is there any cd you see more often in used bins for $2.99 than the white town full length?
― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link
Good point though: production vslues can in theory be roughly the same now for the bedroom amateur and the stoodio professional. What difference is left other than marketing?
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 22:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link
-- bill stevens (bscrubbin...), September 8th, 2004 8:53 PM.
Totally. I remember thinking that when it came out.
― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link
I could never be Your Wookie.
― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link
I am from High Wycombe Alba. I have fond memories.
― gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 9 September 2004 02:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alain Delon, Thursday, 9 September 2004 03:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 9 September 2004 05:04 (nineteen years ago) link
(I also bought Tasmin Archer's Great Expectations for the same price. Pretty much the same assessment -- not a bad price for a CD single with some inessentials tacked onto the end.)
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Thursday, 9 September 2004 05:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kate Jane Connolly (fixitgirl), Thursday, 9 September 2004 08:27 (nineteen years ago) link
I also had the dubious pleasure of promoting some gigs at The White Horse.
I was always scared to touch anything when in the dressing room as everyone was painfully aware that it doubled up as a room for 'private dances' when the strippers were on in the daytimes.
Still, it was worth it just to see Hrvatski and Knifehandchop confuse the fuck out of the general Wycombe public.
And, as Dr. C points out, Scorpion Records is a winner.
― Al English, Thursday, 9 September 2004 09:39 (nineteen years ago) link
Listening to the album just now for the first time in a long while, enjoyable stuff. But Dan nailed it why "Your Woman" is so sharp on its own. :-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:15 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.whitetown.co.uk/archives/2005/06/tyler-james-covers-your-woman/
― pete b. (pete b.), Monday, 22 August 2005 10:37 (eighteen years ago) link
His cover of "Your Woman" is crap, though.
― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 22 August 2005 10:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 22 August 2005 10:59 (eighteen years ago) link
Okay I need to hear this immediately.
― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Monday, 22 August 2005 11:00 (eighteen years ago) link
i'd like to see the original question applied to today - do we have more bedroom musicians now? it seems so, with the ubiquity of ableton, soft synths and high-spec pcs, but what bedroom musicians have made it big recently?
How about acts such as The Feeling and Lily Allen, who have gotten famous mainly because of MySpace?
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 13:42 (sixteen years ago) link
Oh come on, you don't actually believe Lily Allen got famous because of MySpace, do you? Next you'll be bringing up Sandi Thom.
― ailsa, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 13:59 (sixteen years ago) link
no geir, no to that
― s.rose, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 15:42 (sixteen years ago) link
Your Woman being covered by ............ Wiley.
― djh, Friday, 8 January 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link
and it's great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6119_SeiFIs
sighted with another woman in shoreditchit's my house, i pay the mortgage
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, 8 January 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
i still find it weird that the original is some kind of pop touchstone, it's barely ok! wiley's version is way better
It seemed more notable back when its sound was rare and unpopular. One of the more secretly influential singles on 00s pop in that regard, perhaps.
― Tim F, Friday, 8 January 2010 23:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Jyoti Mishra = Karel Fialka
― Joe Pass Filter (MaresNest), Friday, 8 January 2010 23:43 (fourteen years ago) link
Never noticed the similarity to the Empire Strikes Back theme before...
― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 8 January 2010 23:53 (fourteen years ago) link
an influence on baxter dury
― cozwn, Friday, 8 January 2010 23:57 (fourteen years ago) link
My pharmacist the other day was named Jyoti, I wanted to ask her if she would be my woman but she had a wedding ring on and was pretty much all business so I was scared to try it.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 9 January 2010 04:45 (fourteen years ago) link
spiritual precursor to umbrella
― ABSOLUTELY NO SCRUBS WHATSOEVER, Saturday, 9 January 2010 09:37 (fourteen years ago) link
No charm and no intrigue to the Wiley version; pants.
― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:25 (fourteen years ago) link
So Wiley bottles out by getting a woman to sing the hook, then changes the original "Few Dollars More"-esque sample into some Star Wars shit. I like the woozy throb of it but fuck is it better than the original.
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Actually I take back the Star Wars bit, I assume whoever made that comparison is watching the wrong movies. And Wiley sounds good, so I guess I mainly just object to the removal of gender ambiguity. Liking this quite a bit now.
― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, by having an actual woman sing the chorus plus the rap lyrics turn an intriguingly queer song into a yet another hetero jealousy tune. Before I clicked play I was kinda hoping Wiley himself would've sang the "I could never be your woman" chorus, that would've been interesting. Nice beat though.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:32 (fourteen years ago) link
(xx-post)
And I really liked the horn sample in the original, the synthesized equivalent here just doesn't carry the same emotional weight.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:33 (fourteen years ago) link
In the original the horn bit made it feel like the backing track was actively mocking the singer's attempts to ever be "your woman". In here the music already has the same sense of resignation as the lyrics, which make them more in line with each other, but with less drama.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 10:43 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/seconds/white-town-your-woman.htm
― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 9 January 2010 11:16 (fourteen years ago) link
the second paragraph of that pretty much sums up why i can't care about the original - it just sounds so weedy and rubbish! i'd probably hate it but for the killer tune, but a killer tune can't quite make up for the rubbishness.
the "queer politics" angle is hilariously overstated and i think the straight narrative of wiley's version works much better - it's not about jealousy, it's about the girl realising that with the male character being what he is, she'll never be able to be his woman. wiley's verses are great, probably one of his best vocal performances, the production is fixed and uk-funky-friendly (first heard this song in an amazing scratcha dva set @ beyond) and it retains the killer tune. miles, miles, miles better than the original.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think the sexual politics part of a song about sexual politics can be overstated really.
I agree I like the Wiley tune plenty but as a Wiley tune that "samples" "Your Woman" rather than as a cover rilly.
― Sharty til You Puke (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:41 (fourteen years ago) link
umm I really like the wiley verison but I don't think it's fair to say "the queer angle is overstated" in re: the original - I mean, that's an essential part of its novelty, a man stating an obvious thing & the listener wondering "what does he mean by that?" -- it was a really clever way of making a lyric engaging without being wordy/opaque/etc. take that away and make it a man-and-woman conversation-in-song and you have, y'know, a song like many other songs.
― Herodcare for the Unborn (J0hn D.), Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Exactly.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:50 (fourteen years ago) link
I like the Wiley version too, but it is less interesting for the reasons stated by John and me above. Like I said, if Wiley himself had done "I could never be your woman" bit, that might've made the song even more compelling than the original, due to the well known aversion rap music has towards queerness. (Whereas indie pop like the original song is less averse to queerness, hence making it less shocking.)
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:56 (fourteen years ago) link
wiley doesn't even sample the original, just interpolates the tune.
idk i don't think "gay man fancies straight man" is pushing any particular boundaries or saying anything novel, but actually i'm pretty sure i think that because the narrative and characterisation is pretty weak in the original, just sketched out really unsatisfactorily (and ughhh i'd forgotten about that terrible "highbrow marxist ways" line! cringe!). plus dude sings it in such a half-assed way that i can't bring myself to care any way about his situation, it sounds no more "queer" than the demos on youtube sung by ne-yo or the-dream that they've written for a woman to sing.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Saturday, 9 January 2010 12:57 (fourteen years ago) link
the reason wiley shouldn't have done the "i could never be your woman" line is that he can't sing and it would've been terrible for that reason alone
idk i don't think "gay man fancies straight man" is pushing any particular boundaries or saying anything novel,
Well how many pop songs can you name that would touch the same subject matter? Because I can't think of any. (The only song that comes to my mind with a similar theme is Meshell Ndegeocello's "Barry Farms", but somehow I doubt it would ever have become a pop hit.) The closest thing I can think of is Prince's "If I Was Your Girlfriend", and even there Prince is merely imagining himself as her girlfriend's best female friend, not as her female lover.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:03 (fourteen years ago) link
In these days of Autotune, any rapper can sing! In fact an Autotuned chorus by Wiley might've been pretty interesting, as the robotic/androgynous nature of Autotune vocals would've emphasized the queerness of what's being said in the chorus.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:06 (fourteen years ago) link
i guess what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter how "queer" a song is if the singer doesn't convince or make me care?
xp i am really really glad wiley didn't do that :o
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:12 (fourteen years ago) link
But like John said, the disappointment doesn't just come from doing away the queerness, it also comes from taking one of the best-known queer hits of recent times and recontextualizing it in a "male-and-female dialogue on relationships" scheme, which is something that has been done a zillion times in the history of popular music. The song is fine as it is, but it reminds me of those Hollywood books adaptations, where a character who's gay in the novel becomes straight (or asexual) in the movie. The movie in itself can be a good one, but you can't help feeling that there was potential for something more.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:14 (fourteen years ago) link
(x-post)
Well, even if the singer didn't make you care, you can't deny he was "pushing boundaries" or "doing something novel", at least in a pop context. And a lot of people cared about the song.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:16 (fourteen years ago) link
There's some interesting things about it on the White Town faq http://www.whitetown.co.uk/faq/ So I guess it was written to have multiple perspectives in the first place. It makes it seem like a creative writing project: Write love song with marxist/lesbian agenda!
― cajunsunday, Saturday, 9 January 2010 13:54 (fourteen years ago) link
agree with the lex here; john himself brings up the "novelty" of the original (a dope song that i remain fond of), and that's i think as far as the queer anthem angle reasonably allows before glib overweighting occurs - not to be scandalous but the whole strikes me as the sort of thing hetero dudes trying too hard to be down would get stuck on. (gay dudes for whom the song is a big deal should probably try harder). why on earth would you want wiley, of all people, to uphold that perceived tradition? don't you care about anything?
― r|t|c, Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:05 (fourteen years ago) link
ZeroTolerancePoisoN (1 day ago) Show Hide0Marked as spamReply | Spam
its funny cause the man is saying i could never be your woman
― r|t|c, Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link
it's about the girl realising that with the male character being what he is, she'll never be able to be his woman.
this is wrong too however; the presiding miscalculation so far on this thread is solely reading the new version from the perspective of its chorus rather than from wiley's. the chorus acts as a pivot, startling in its stilled matter-of-factness ("now you're feeling the pain - but you're not crying") (and notice how much more the "i guess" does here, combined with the the slight alteration to "what they say is true" - a same old story, borne out by being played off the familiarity of the sample in itself), to wiley's awareness of his slowly entwining self-deception and the pulsing nimbus of numbness that doesnt quite fully submerge it.
i love the almost out-of-body dawning montage of paranoaic perspectives in the second verse especially: "air freshener / wild orchid / what would he get if she caught him? ... turn around, ignore it / look around like you never saw it". ("quick jump the queue - no hiding" is a great line in context too.)
i've said this before i think but wiley - perhaps by virtue of his intrinsic tortured life story history with grime - has a unique quality of always seeming slightly detached from material that isn't his bread and butter, that isn't incongruous or opportunistic in as much it has the effect of turning whatever it is he's on into a sort of distanced-but-not soundtrack music. almost as if he could have said what he says on 'your woman' just as easily on 'wearing my rolex', because it's all "wiley has a realisation while he's out clubbing" music. what tedious bit of cinetheory am i grasping for here - metadiagesis? yah, if you like.
― r|t|c, Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:19 (fourteen years ago) link
x-post - The shift in meaning would seem to be somewhat less that "Every Breath You Take" --> "I'll Be Missing You". However I'm hanging out for Tinchy's next single which interpolates "This Charming Man", chorus sung by Shola Ama about Tinchy.
― Tim F, Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Most interesting thing about Jyoti's original is not the narrative perspective, but rather the cultural response to iti it got macho rugby boys singing "I could never be your woman" to each other. I wager Wiley's version won't.
― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:57 (fourteen years ago) link
really shocks me a little how truculent so many people (that i know,that i've read) have been about taking this song on its own terms; is it so hard to understand in 2010 that a sample does not automatically mean a linear cover version? what is it really that people are instinctively drawing the battle lines against here?
i take the point that the more popular shy fx hiphouse mix maybe steamrollers the whole thing a little, but still the value is plain to hear.
― r|t|c, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:01 (fourteen years ago) link
i think it's just freighting the original with may more importance than it deserves. i'm trying to think of an example of a song i really, really loved being sampled and jarring in its new context but i can't right now.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, 19 February 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Most interesting thing about Jyoti's original is not the narrative perspective, but rather the cultural response to iti it got macho rugby boys singing "I could never be your woman" to each other.― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:57 (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 9 January 2010 15:57 (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is one of the most staggeringly banal and useless received wisdoms of all time btw.
― r|t|c, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:06 (fourteen years ago) link
ikr? rugby boys a) sing anything b) the camper the better
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, 19 February 2010 13:07 (fourteen years ago) link
xp oh yeah sure no doubt i've been at the wrong end of a cheap grabby sample hundreds of times (and i've been wrong about being at the wrong end too) but this particular example with the wiley cut so evidently, basically has its own different things going on that i'm just a bit gobsmacked. it seems like no one's even listened to the thing once, let alone expended an iota of the deep thought they claim have done on the white town original.
― r|t|c, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:14 (fourteen years ago) link
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/popular/2014/02/white-town-your-woman/
― etc, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 03:00 (ten years ago) link
http://www.godisinthetvzine.co.uk/2017/12/12/white-town-release-woman-1917/
― Kibbutzki (Jaap Schip), Tuesday, 12 December 2017 16:34 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QVIjNquTJU
― Kibbutzki (Jaap Schip), Tuesday, 12 December 2017 16:35 (six years ago) link
The original is perfect as it is - it was great to see someone flying the synthpop flag in the '90s and not being embarrassed about it.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 12 December 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
Is it "Your Woman" being used in the advert for The Eternals? Sort of hoping it is (so Jyoti gets a big cheque) but suspect it's just the same sample??
― djh, Thursday, 20 January 2022 22:26 (two years ago) link
It's in a Dua Lipa song, right?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 January 2022 22:44 (two years ago) link
To answer the question just above: yes. Meantime, Todd in the Shadows does a One Hit Wonderland on it and mentions Tom Ewing along the way, thus tying back to the protohistory of this site, etc. etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRYO6-gNGzQ
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 3 December 2022 04:35 (one year ago) link