TS: Cat Power vs. Fiona Apple vs. Beth Orton

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Depresso-young-white-female somberness starring very intrguing and kooky humanoids. That said, there are times I can't tell Beth from Cat and I'm not a Fiona-phile. Sure, sometimes the can touch me so spot-on, it's as if I'm buck nekkid in gale force winds. And sometimes (dare I say most times), I want to punch them in the taco for being so friggin pretentously archetypal and/or flat-out boring. But sometimes I love 'em.

― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:16 (twenty years ago)

PUNCH EM IN THE TACO!

― jaxon (jaxon), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:17 (twenty years ago)

And I never knew "Chan" was pronounecd "Shawn" until I read it in NY mag. I like "Chan" better than "Shawn."

― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:18 (twenty years ago)

My name is Dan. It's pronounced Dionne.

Just kidding, but seriously... people misspell their kids names (Trennia -- that's TREENA) and expect other people to pronounce it correctly are weird.

― Daniel Peterson (polkaholic), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:23 (twenty years ago)

"Punch them in the taco" = this is meant to be some kind of punishment?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:52 (twenty years ago)

nothings worse than Beth Orton

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:54 (twenty years ago)

it's weird, i like cat power a lot more than beth orton, but jeanne's right: i'm really not sure why, since they both sound more or less exactly the same!!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

I like Beth Orton as a person!... she seems highly unpretentious and sweet, and I adore her voice but eeuch her music got lame fast (that new single was uber-forgettable), and it was pretty spotty to start off with. She hasn't really lived up to her potential yet (I won't say 'never' but ehhh) :(

Cat Power is occasionally awesome but mainly MEH. I've still never really heard Fiona Apple at all! Is she really so bland as I imagine?

― fandango (fandango), Friday, 20 January 2006 22:59 (twenty years ago)

what a stupid post (me) ^

― fandango (fandango), Friday, 20 January 2006 23:32 (twenty years ago)

beth orton has one really great song on her second album w/Terry Callier. muy bonita

― jaxon (jaxon), Friday, 20 January 2006 23:34 (twenty years ago)

fiona apple > cat power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beth orton

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 20 January 2006 23:37 (twenty years ago)

"Punch them in the taco" = this is meant to be some kind of punishment?

It ain't a metaphor for rough fisting, if that's what you're asking.

― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Saturday, 21 January 2006 00:59 (twenty years ago)

Mark p is completely correct.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 21 January 2006 02:12 (twenty years ago)

I prefer "Chan" to "Shawn" also, but musically... Fiona is different in that she's much more adventurous musically. Though I would happily shack up with Beth, her music has definitely gotten more and more conservative. Some people may find it boring. I like her voice thought.

Cat comes in a distant third, although I'm interested to listen to the new album.

― Mitya (mitya), Saturday, 21 January 2006 02:38 (twenty years ago)

Hello.

I'm a Boinger:

http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0RO4L5SWJ6C5Q340TTH1PGM5EV

You Stink, but I Love You:

http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=23SWNILNV652N3JQD9ANAXWMEX

BTW, classic classic classic. The standard that all newspaper comic strips should be held to. Outland? Not so much.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 21 January 2006 02:47 (twenty years ago)

Wow. This is definitely not the thread I thought I was on. Those are Bloom County/BIlly and the Boingers songs. I'm dumb, please ignore.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 21 January 2006 02:48 (twenty years ago)

i say cat power but ive only heard fiona once and it was good. don't remember what beth sounds like. our her drummers as cool as jim white? do they cover michael hurley? nico owns them all anyways.

― no bones, Saturday, 21 January 2006 02:50 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but...

Boingers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cat Power/Fiona Apple/Beth Orton

― Edward Bax (EdBax), Saturday, 21 January 2006 04:35 (twenty years ago)

Fiona way ahead of Orton way ahead of Cat Power

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 21 January 2006 07:07 (twenty years ago)

punch them in the taco indeed

― buyabiznatch (buyabiznatch), Saturday, 21 January 2006 08:48 (twenty years ago)

juliana hatfield > cat power >>>> beth orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fiona apple

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 21 January 2006 10:18 (twenty years ago)

juliana hatfield > fiona apple > beth orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prat power

― Walker, Saturday, 21 January 2006 10:21 (twenty years ago)

Beth Orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(continues forever) everyone else mentioned on this list.
That's pretty definitive, I think.

― Merryweather (scarlet), Saturday, 21 January 2006 11:21 (twenty years ago)

Cat Power > old Beth Orton > Fiona Apple > new Beth Orton

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 13:09 (twenty years ago)

although

Fiona Apple singles > Cat Power single(s) > Beth Orton

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 13:09 (twenty years ago)

Fiona (three excellent albums) > Beth (mostly for "Stolen Car", "Touch Me With Your Love" and "She Cries Your Name", all of which may be better than anything Fiona's done) > Cat Power

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 21 January 2006 14:04 (twenty years ago)

I like Beth.

― mark grout (mark grout), Saturday, 21 January 2006 14:55 (twenty years ago)

fiona apple > cat power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beth orton

entirely otm though i would add a couple of arrows in between fiona and chan. it always bemused me that confessional female singer-songwriters in the vein of cat power got so much critical respect compared to those in the vein of fiona apple, and i'm pretty sure the answer is to do with the former's technical limitations (she can't sing or play the piano or guitar properly => mad in a non-threatening way).

i've never seen any writing on fiona apple which comes even close to describing her aesthetic accurately let alone pinning down why it's great! comparisons to tori amos are a warning sign of bullshit as the two sound nothing like each other.

for the past couple of years i've inextricably twinned fiona apple and kanye west in my brain - obv they sound different as they're working in different genres, but i think that the things they value and aim for in their art are pretty similar.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:02 (twenty years ago)

well except that humour and bravado play totally different roles in their work. and that kanye seems to be a Big Message kind of person, whereas fiona doesn't seem to want to make any bold statements about the world, politics, gender, race, etc. and the fact that kanye has this big antiacademic chip on his shoulder. and the fact that kanye only rarely has love-songs that feel directed and specific. but yeah, other than that?

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:07 (twenty years ago)

oh, and re

she can't sing or play the piano or guitar properly

"can't sing properly"?

and you know that a lot of her music is with a band, right? who can "play ... guitar properly". there's definitely an outsider charm to Cat Power stuff, and most features about her are really frustrating in the way they focus on the things you talk about.
but i think you are really down the wrong path if you think that's her music's (and not just her image's) appeal.

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:09 (twenty years ago)

old Fiona Apple>>>Cat Power>>>new Fiona Apple>>>Beth Orton

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Not a huge fan of any of them, but none of them are totally awful. I actually like that Chemical Brothers song with Beth Orton.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:13 (twenty years ago)

anti-academic chip on shoulder = equivalent of fiona's self-aware self-destructive impulses (cf 'a mistake')

kanye's Big Messages succeed for the most part because he's intent on making them personal (to him or to various characters who crop up in his songs), whereas fiona makes her personal confessions into Big Messages (or at least universal statements rather than her own back story) via her more stagey, theatrical tendencies - there's always a sense of role-playing with her

i think they use humour and bravado in pretty similar ways!

also, there's the sonic aspect - even before they er swapped jon brion, i thought they were kinda pushing at the same aesthetic from different directions - this kind of highly rhythmic opulence

xps

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:13 (twenty years ago)

sean, cat power has a range of about three notes! she sings them very well and i love her voice but it's very much untrained and limited.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:15 (twenty years ago)

I also would have thought Fiona Apple would be considered a technically good singer (or at least better than Cat Power, not that that's saying a great deal). Fiona sounds like she can sing, to me.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:19 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Hmm. I appreciate your taking my points seriously, since they were pretty snarky.

I admit I don't know Fiona that well - I've heard her records tons of times, but not super picked up on the lyrics, outside of the singles.

I don't see any similarity between Kanye's pedantry (esp. w/r/t school) and Fiona's self-aware ruminations. They just seem like apples and oranges. Even in tone - Kanye almost never criticises himself, except when he's in a sarcastic straw-man character. Fiona's very self-critical, which is kind of maddening because she shouldn't be.

I think yr description of Kanye/Fiona re big message stuff if pretty otm, but is it fair to call them "similar" given how they do things in sort of opposite ways? Different process, means and intent? Kanye and Fiona don't seem "similar" in their emphasis on a "Big Message" any more than any random pair of lyrically-serious artists... Beth Orton vs Kanye even seems closer to me. :)

I don't hear the humour/bravado thing with Fiona, but like I say I don't know her lyrics as well as you.

re Cat Power

I guess I just find the word "properly" really innappropriate as a stand-in for "untrained and limited".

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 15:26 (twenty years ago)

is Taco spanish for vagina? are we saying to punch them in their vaginas? is this comparison because they all have vaginas? are they meat filled? bean and cheese? i need to think about this and want to be clear that i am thinking whether I would want to kick any of them in their vaginas or an actual taco they happen to be eating when I see them. If they are all playing SxSW, that would be the best time to get em, cause they serve a LOT of tacos down there. and when I say "down there", I dont mean the vagina, I mean Austin.

― Gordita (GALKIN), Saturday, 21 January 2006 16:37 (twenty years ago)

I don't get the taco thing either.

― Edward Bax (EdBax), Saturday, 21 January 2006 19:21 (twenty years ago)

Cat Power is best of the three. But Jenny Lewis is better than them all.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Saturday, 21 January 2006 21:59 (twenty years ago)

beth orton's first two albums are excellent but she really slid into bland territory on the last one and I didn't like that new single at all. still of the three she's the one I'd want to have coffee with I guess. Most Cat Power albums are amazing.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 21 January 2006 22:48 (twenty years ago)

the new beth orton isn't bad, actually (if you like her earlier stuff, i mean). way better than her 3rd one. it's got a nice stripped-down sound, several good tunes. i also like that most of the songs are under 3 minutes, she's best when she doesn't have too much room to meander.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 21 January 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

I like Cat Power a lot. really good lyrics.

The original statement on this thread is such nonsense. It doesn't mean anything at all.

― dar1a g (daria g), Sunday, 22 January 2006 04:44 (twenty years ago)

all 3 are quite talented in their own different ways and have released good to great singles and albums in their careers. and all 3 are women. whoa man. whoa! women! releasing records! pretty good ones! Obviously this is a conspiracy. Now, we must decide as a music community and as a group of people who state our extremely important and influential opinions in a public forum: should one of them get kicked in the taco?

― Gordita, Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:10 (twenty years ago)

Get off this board you artery-clogging monster!

― Del Mar, Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:17 (twenty years ago)

How the hell did this thread get so far without...

http://bethorton.astralwerks.com/images/main.jpg

http://boulyzekid.free.fr/blog/avedon.jpg
http://www.artnet.com/Magazine/people/smith/Images/smith11-17-41.jpg

http://www.ondarock.it/photo/apple1.gif
http://nemendur.khi.is/sunngunn/apple.jpg

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:31 (twenty years ago)

Del Mar - TACOS clog arteries, not me. We can kick them all in their arteries because they are filled with tacos! That one photo up there of Chan (pronounced "Cat") Power has her taco peekin out! I would take my pants off for Richard Avedon too. I actually once did but it was in a mexican restaurant and I got arrested.

― gordita, Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:58 (twenty years ago)

Fucking a. The taco-punching statement was used to convey my frustration as a taco-bearer towards the taco-bearing artists in question. It was a metaphor for my frustration rooted in gender identity. Perhaps I should have explained it as such and not the way I did because it's clear I came off sounding like some hot-headed fool. Note to self: temper thy taco-punching references.

― Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Sunday, 22 January 2006 16:36 (twenty years ago)

This thread reminds me of an old Lenny Bruce routine where he recounts being chewed out by the authorities for saying "cocksucker," and the hearing goes on and on, with much more testimony and speechifying than necessary: "And then it dawned on me: they all just wanted an excuse to keep saying "cocksucker!".

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 22 January 2006 19:12 (twenty years ago)

I really really love that bob dylan tshirt pic of chan (for reasons outside of hte obvious reasons). and as someone with a former eating disorder (maybe that's tmi, but y'know alot of women have this and probably a majority of women in entertainment industry, so...) fiona apple's appearance really really bothers me, esp. when i know she's being marketed looking like that as a sex symbol.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:03 (twenty years ago)

actually, yeah, the new beth orton album does sound good, half-way through it now. a big improvement over daybreaker. not as good as the second record though which is almost completely perfect.

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:22 (twenty years ago)

those pictures have reminded me that beth is the only remotely attractive one of the three.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 22 January 2006 22:42 (twenty years ago)

Cat Power, though I feel vaguely guilty about that. Maybe cuz Apple puts forth a lot of effort.

― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 22 January 2006 23:04 (twenty years ago)

Cat Power's latest singlee, "The Greatest," is downloadable here, and is very lovely:

http://www.matadorrecords.com/cat_power/music.html

― shookout (shookout), Monday, 23 January 2006 00:53 (twenty years ago)

Cat Power's newie is a bit too mature, not as good as 'You Are Free'. But she's not in the league of Aimee Mann.

Shit, Aimee Mann's not in the options, is she?

― beaux knee (boney), Monday, 23 January 2006 00:54 (twenty years ago)

i have that Bloom County flexi disc. Seriously. Prolly worth something on eBay.

anyway:

fiona>catpower>beth orton

I hate to blame it on bedmates, but Orton was with Ryan Adams. DEAL KILLER.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 23 January 2006 02:45 (twenty years ago)

Have you heared "Brown Sugar" Beth and Ryan?

Bloody awful.

And I like Beth. For personal reasons...

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 23 January 2006 08:12 (twenty years ago)

Beth was always outta my league... but I remained attracted, perhaps because she's about 7 feet tall.

― fandango (fandango), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:01 (twenty years ago)

Beth bears a strong resemblance to my wife. One photo I saw, (Beth Orton and Tracy Emin together), looks almost identical to her.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:10 (twenty years ago)

beth's first two lps were ok, but that was a long time ago.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:12 (twenty years ago)

Beth bears a strong resemblance to my wife.

oh wow, cool...

― sump pump, Monday, 23 January 2006 17:16 (twenty years ago)

cat power

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:22 (twenty years ago)

Singling out Chan's limitations as a singer is like complaining about the vocal limitations of Iggy Pop, Mark E. Smith, or Nick Cave. She's a stylist, not a singer. She's also a real original, and some of her best work is less in the singer-songwriter vein than in the sonic sculpture vein (e.g. "Cross Bones Style"). Can't tell the difference between Beth Orton and Cat Power? You've been listening to the wrong Cat Power records, I reckon.

She's become less insane, less driven by anger than she used to be, which has made her recent work less striking. On the other hand, if Beth Orton or Fiona Apple have written a song as heartbreakingly direct as "To Be A Good Woman" I've yet to hear it. Here's an acoustic version from a radio broadcast: http://s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0DBSSUZ6HAXBH34BK7S6E1NG9M

― Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:50 (twenty years ago)

I think a recording I just heard in a record store was one of these ladies singing a studio-magic duet of "Time After Time" along with Cyndi Lauper's original, but I don't know which!

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 01:47 (twenty years ago)

I heared that Cat Power song on the John Peel Box thread. I say again, it sounds like Beth Orton singing a PJ Harvey song. I guess she just has that 'norfolk twang' as a natural thing.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 08:52 (twenty years ago)

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