"Trout Mask Replica" Vs. "Safe As Milk"

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I prefer Safe As Milk. Some tunes on Replica are just awful.

― Regular John (Regular John), Saturday, 21 January 2006 19:30 (twenty years ago)

that's because you are regular, john

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 21 January 2006 19:31 (twenty years ago)

maybe that's it.

― Regular John (Regular John), Saturday, 21 January 2006 19:33 (twenty years ago)

An epic battle. Down to the fifteenth round! Trout Mask Replica's extra bulk just proves to be too much! TKO in the fifteenth round: TROUT MASK IS THE WINNAHHHHHHHHHHH.....

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 21 January 2006 19:40 (twenty years ago)

"Safe As Milk" is at least listenable, even though there are no notable memorable tunes. "Trout Mask Replica" is simply insufferable.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 January 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

No memorable tunes? No Memorable Tunes???? like Plastic Factory, Grown So Ugly, or Dropout Boogie? Geir, you are an apostate.

For those who can only dip a toe into free jazz, I'm sure that TMR sounds all edgy and daring. But it is a sure sign that the Captain is out of his waters and is demonstrably more successful when sticking to blues based explorations.

Safe as Milk--an error discovered on the Korean judge's card shows that the TMR victory was rigged and the gold medal is restored to Safe As Milk.

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Saturday, 21 January 2006 21:57 (twenty years ago)

TMR is not free jazz.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 21 January 2006 23:19 (twenty years ago)

And Geir, your comment seems biased. I'm sure you like plenty of music that is "less melodic" than plenty of the stuff on Safe as Milk. You seem to hear blues intervals and immediately resort to the "not melodic" card.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 21 January 2006 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Trout Mask Replica does'nt sound as cacaphonic as I once thought, instead it just sounds like very creative music, truly ahead of its time. But comparing it to Safe as Milk seems like comparing two totally different albums to me. I guess the regular way of thinking would be to say that Safe as Milk is the more accesable, while Trout Mask Replica is just a bunch of noise, that's nonsense! The Magic Band created a form a music that has yet to be described (besides noise). So judging by the question I posted not too long ago, I'm gonna have to go with Trout Mask Replica, but that's not to neglect Safe as Milk, I love 'em both, but how many other albums sound like TMR. You can trace back SAM to the blues.

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Sunday, 22 January 2006 02:10 (twenty years ago)

Safe As Milk is so much better. No contest.

― Erock LAzron, Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:12 (twenty years ago)

the correct answer: Lick My Decals Off, Baby

― ZR (teenagequiet), Sunday, 22 January 2006 05:15 (twenty years ago)

ZR, OTM

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Sunday, 22 January 2006 16:39 (twenty years ago)

It's a draw

― TRG (TRG), Sunday, 22 January 2006 16:45 (twenty years ago)

I like Trout Mask a lot more.

― 'Curt' Russell (noodle vague), Sunday, 22 January 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

I like Trout Mask more than Lick My Decals Off.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 22 January 2006 18:19 (twenty years ago)

safe as milk is so uninteresting. if i want an album of psychedelic blues stuff i'd rather listen to nuggets or a garage rock album that's better than safe as milk (there's many).

trout mask replica has never been matched in its sound madness and still sounds fresh and relevant today.

― white hole (white hole), Sunday, 22 January 2006 20:32 (twenty years ago)

Wow, how can you say that about an album with "Zig Zag Wanderer" and "Abba Zabba" and all that? Safe as Milk is absolute top drawer Nuggets stuff IMO.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 22 January 2006 20:43 (twenty years ago)

'SAM' is well good ALL THROUGH, whereas 'TMR' is oddly marvellous BUT ONLY IN PLACES.

So there.

― beaux knee (boney), Monday, 23 January 2006 00:42 (twenty years ago)

from AllMusic.com: "Beefheart and his Magic Band rehearsed the material for this 28-song double album for over a year, wedding minimalistic R&B, blues, and garage rock to free jazz and avant-garde experimentalism. Atonal, sometimes singsong melodies"

And here is where I part company with the TMR worshippers--you may claim that TMR is not intended to be "free jazz" and intent is where the argument centers. Because if Van Vliet intended avant-garde or free jazz, he missed the mark by blue million miles; if he did not so intend, then he is just guilty of particularly unspectacular soprano sax squelching and skronking. Perhaps he and the Magic Band were completely unaware of the giant leaps in music from 1959 onward (The Art of the Improvisors--Ornette; Free Jazz--Ornette; The Complete Village Vanguard Sessions--Coltrane/Dolphy; The New York Contemporary Five (1963); Complete Communion/Symphony for Improvisors--Don Cherry). In comparison, Van Vliet's wan, reedy bleating seems a pathetic imitation. Yes, there are gems on TMR; yes, Beefheart shows flashes of brilliance that are seldom matched on other records. But TMR is deeply flawed by this misguided attempt to break the rock-blues mold. He does this well when he and the Magic band swoop, holler, lurch and rumble through their reconceptions of delta blues. When, on Mirror Man, this band recasts Robert Johnson's (through John Lee Hooker)Terraplane Blues (Tarotplane), they are at the top of their form--no one matches the passion of the Captain as his voice leaps through his incredible range and the swooping, sliding bass linnes--duties still handled at this point by Jerry Handley--far excel anything on TMR. Granted that some of the lesser works on Mirror Man (25th Century Quaker, Kandy Korn) do not match the intensity of the title track or Tarotplane, they are at least the equal if not superior of novelty cuts such as The Blimp or Old Fart at Play.

I hope that Beefheart fans realize that I do love the ol' guy, and that this is a considered position, not just an "oh yeah, sez you" knee-jerk.

Any comparison between artists on "Nuggets" and Beefheart need to be backed up. Certainly, there are gems on Nuggets, but most of those were released as singles--the albums pastiched together in support of album sales rarely, rarely sustain the consistent work presented on Safe as Milk OR Trout Mask Replica.

Ever heard a whole Five Americans album? The Human Beinz? C'mon--their best tune was a cover of the Isley Brothers. Argue away that the Standells could match Beefheart's ouvre. The best of the original Nugget's lot--Blue Cheer--managed to sustain the level of Vincibus Eruptum for exactly one album. The rest sucked. out. loud.

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Monday, 23 January 2006 06:07 (twenty years ago)

Actually, I think the second Blue Cheer album, Outsideinside, is about as good as the first. There were plenty of "Nuggets bands" that had lots of great songs - Music Machine and Seeds, for example - but I agree with your general point about Safe as Milk being an absolutely stellar LP and one of the greats - possibly the best - of the genre.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 23 January 2006 06:39 (twenty years ago)

"Safe As Milk" could have been a good album, had the songs been based on English twee psychedelia rather than the blues.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:08 (twenty years ago)

I was thinking of getting TMR to see what all the fuss is about.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:13 (twenty years ago)

I like both albums, but I had to choose one, it'd be SAFE AS MILK.
(1) S.A.M. is a lot more listenable all the way through. On the other hand, there are tracks on T.M.R. that I skip over. Besides, I usually listen to a side at a time; avantgardism gets kinda wearing on a big ole two-record set.

(2) I'm a stone-cold garage-rock fanatic, anyway, so S.A.M. hits me where I live. It practically picks up where his A&M singles left off.

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

J. ARTHUR RANK:

(a) I dig Blue Cheer, but they are NOT a NUGGETS band (even if Rhino mistakenly used one of their songs on a NUGGETS comp). This band just played straight-up hard rock. Nothing garagey about it.

(b) Have I ever heard an entire album by the Five Americans? Yes, I own the PROJECTIONS and I SEE THE LIGHT albums, and there's an amazing percentage of well-written pop and/or punk songs on either LP. Even on PROJECTIONS, which was an early, mild attempt at psychedelia. Being a garage fanatic myself, I am well aware that some of those bands couldn't sustain a full album. But the Five Am's weren't that kind of band (although their first LP, WESTERN UNION/SOUND OF LOVE, is pretty feeble).

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:30 (twenty years ago)

J. ARTHUR RANK (again):

You implied that Beefheart shouldn't be compared to NUGGETS bands because he knew how to make a full LP and those other groups were singles bands. Did you know that the Beefheart song on the first NUGGETS box set was 45-only ("Diddy Wah Diddy" on A&M)? And on top of that, it was actually a hit single in L.A.? Hell, Dick Clark even did a phone interview with him on AMERICAN BANDSTAND (with the band Love guesting on the same episode)!

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

by chance I've just bought SAM and it's pure joy - more fun than my recollection of hearing TMR, tho I've never owned that. Just love Zig Zag Wanderer. Apparently one record company refused to release Electricity because they believed it 'too negative'

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 23 January 2006 13:54 (twenty years ago)

This thread may be hungry, but it sure ain't weird.

― J (Jay), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:58 (twenty years ago)

Nuggets bands with great albums:

The Electric Prunes
The Standells
The Shadows Of Knight
The Seeds
The Remains
13th Floor Elevators
Count Five
The Cryan Shames
Amboy Dukes
Chocolate Watchband
Nazz
Music Machine
Turtles
The Litter
Love
Outsiders
The Beau Brummels
The Gants
Paul Revere & The Raiders
The Sonics
The Hombres
Sir Douglas Quintet
The Kingsmen
Wailers
The Monks

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 January 2006 13:59 (twenty years ago)

and that's just bands on the actual first nuggets box. i could go on. and on. and on.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:00 (twenty years ago)

The Monks are not on the first nuggets box.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Rev Hoodoo, I have no truck with Nuggets; my respose was to this comment: "safe as milk is so uninteresting. if i want an album of psychedelic blues stuff i'd rather listen to nuggets or a garage rock album that's better than safe as milk (there's many).

trout mask replica has never been matched in its sound madness and still sounds fresh and relevant today.

-- white hole (lacassett...), January 22nd, 2006. (later)"

Yes, I know the history of Diddy Wah Diddy. I knew it was a hit single in LA. I know that Rising Sons Ry Cooder and Taj Mahal were on SAM. Look, this isn't abouut a "mine is bigger than yours." I do think though, that while there are many nugget/garage rock bands that put together some fine, fine, rock and roll, very few of them sustained the vibe or delivered on the original promise as well as Beefheart did. For a debut album, SAM is damn good. I think that like all of us, white hole has some favorites that are etched into his chromosomes--but often, those personal favorites do not translate to wider acclaim.

xpost: Scott, I know that many of those groups had one good to great album, and many had astounding hits. But few of those albums (I had all of the Paul Revere, Kingsmen, Count Five stuff from the early 60s back in the early sixties. Hell, I saw the Shadows of Knight back in the day) are consistent. There's a bit of wheat and a whole lot of chaff.

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:14 (twenty years ago)

**The Monks are not on the first nuggets box**

They are : disc 4 "Complication"

― Dave Clark (Dr.C), Monday, 23 January 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Christ, this is like the 34th TMR thread of 2006, and it's getting kinda tiresome. But I'll still weigh in and say "Love 'em both, but TMR is a massive monolith of inexhaustible interest, a masterpiece tragically flawed by its very uniqueness but masterpiece nonetheless." And note that the backlash against TMR has existed long enough as to make it roughly comparable to Sgt. Pepper's (but for the fact that it was NEVER my personal favourite Beatles thang.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:07 (twenty years ago)

(And as regards Beefheart's "true" masterpiece, I would defect and join the Decals boosters if Beefheart had retained the two-guitar lineup and/or made it a double LP. As is, it's a definite #2 on my personal ranking.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:16 (twenty years ago)

Myonga otm. There seems an almost perverse resentment of Trout Mask sometimes, but of all Beefheart's great records the history of Pop would lose most if TMR had never been made.

― 'Curt' Russell (noodle vague), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

just in case some people here haven't been following the whole youtube phenomena:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=beefheart&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:29 (twenty years ago)

they are at least the equal if not superior of novelty cuts such as The Blimp or Old Fart at Play

If those be novelty cuts, then they are absolutely hilarious and essential novelty cuts, since both crack me up just about every time I listen to the record.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

One "Nuggets" band that certainly released at least one great album was Sagittarius. As a matter of fact, more so than any of the others.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 23 January 2006 17:01 (twenty years ago)

one thing that has not been said that needs to be said:

JOHN FRENCH/DRUMBO IS FUCKING DESTROYS SHIT ALL OVER THE PLACE ON TMR. I really like both albums. But I have never been unable to listen to safe asmilk all at once. i have NO DESIRE to hear the trout mask outtakes set... am i missing anything from that?

― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 03:55 (twenty years ago)

"my world fell dooowwwwn......"

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 03:58 (twenty years ago)

Well the trout mask outtakes PROVE the music is not just noise, that it was actually carefully rehearsed. They're pretty interesting, all without vocals, so you can study the music more. I'm glad somebody noticed the genius of John French, the most underrated drummer in rock history. If you've ever read the booklet that comes with the "Grow Fins" boxset, he says that he wanted to do on drums what Salvador Dali did with painting. Could you believe that?! Talk about thinking outside the box!!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 04:03 (twenty years ago)

I've been searching for O SOLO DRUMBO forever, but all of that Avant shit looks to be hopelessly out of print!

but yeah, Drumbo is godlike.

answer to thread is TMR of course, even IF "Plastic Factory" was the first Cap'n song I ever heard and fell immediately in love with it.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 04:12 (twenty years ago)

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/658061/2/istockphoto_658061_heart_disease.jpg

you've got one,
m.

― msp (mspa), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 06:51 (twenty years ago)

Love 'em both, but for me "Moonlight On Vermont" and "Orange Claw Hammer" beat "Dropout Boogie" and "Zig Zag Wanderer" by just a hair.

I agree with most of the comments here that skew towards SAM-as-more-listenable and TMR-as-more-mindblowing.

― sleeve (sleeve), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 07:55 (twenty years ago)

On the "Grow Fins" box set there is a great version of "Orange Claw Hammer" with none other than Frank Zappa adding an actual guitar part to this a cappela song!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 08:04 (twenty years ago)

That is a really great version.

― sleeve (sleeve), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 08:16 (twenty years ago)

I feel kinda embarassed to admit that I have never actually heard any Captain Beefheart records. Covers, sure, but not the real deal. I've always been curious to hear his music but have no idea where to begin.

Could anyone recommend an album or two that would be good for a Beefheart n00b like me?

― Mama Roux, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 08:43 (twenty years ago)

That track was ever-so-nicely put onto a covermount various CD by NME a few years ago.

Newb? Try "Clear Spot" if you want an easy in, Trout Mask Replica if you want to jump in at the deep end. Or "Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) for a bit of everything.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 09:45 (twenty years ago)

You know what though? Amidst all this Beefheart talk, even in other threads, I can't recall anyone mentioning "Ice Cream for Crow"? I really liked that one!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 09:54 (twenty years ago)

"I know that Rising Sons Ry Cooder and Taj Mahal were on SAM"

Uh, no: Ry Cooder and Gary "Magic" Marker, but not Taj Mahal.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:03 (twenty years ago)

Because if Van Vliet intended avant-garde or free jazz, he missed the mark by blue million miles; if he did not so intend, then he is just guilty of particularly unspectacular soprano sax squelching and skronking

When did anyone ever claim Beefheart could play sax? Let alone play it well? Apart from Beefheart himself of course.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:07 (twenty years ago)

Christ, this is like the 34th TMR thread of 2006, and it's getting kinda tiresome.

Amen to that.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:08 (twenty years ago)

"Newb? Try "Clear Spot" if you want an easy in, Trout Mask Replica if you want to jump in at the deep end. Or "Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) for a bit of everything."

Mr. Grout speaks wisely: although if you've got a major soft spot for 60's garage / US psych / blues-rock / British Invasion then (as you've probably worked out by now from this thread) then Safe As Milk is also definitely worth trying; and if you really must have a comp. then there's only one that's even remotely representative / definitive and that's Rhino's The Dust Blows Forward.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:10 (twenty years ago)

HA HA!! I think I created 33rd Beefheart thread!! I had no clue of the others though, you see I sincerely thought I was being fresh, innovative, and unique by mentioning Beefheart! Everybody keeps checkin' 'em out though...

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:15 (twenty years ago)

"When did anyone ever claim Beefheart could play sax? Let alone play it well? Apart from Beefheart himself of course."

The past sure is tense
They're heading up for the main event
All those people seem to be hell-bent
See those people up on top of the fence
And the man down there
Selling knotholes through the fence....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:20 (twenty years ago)

... well some of his sax playing is great, especially on TMR - "Ant Man Bee"!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:22 (twenty years ago)

One of these days, I'll get that "dust" compil. It's got "Hard Workin Man" k-dink k-dink hasn't it?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:23 (twenty years ago)

I think Beefheart accidentally hit some great notes on the sax!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:25 (twenty years ago)

"I know that Rising Sons Ry Cooder and Taj Mahal were on SAM"

Uh, no: Ry Cooder and Gary "Magic" Marker, but not Taj Mahal.

From Theo Tieman's well-researched fan site

(and btw, Happy Birthday to 65 year old Captain B [Jan 15, 2006])

[10] - SAFE AS MILK april 1967-11.06.67

ALEX SNOUFFER alex (pyjama) st. claire * guitar ** bass guitar
RY COODER * guitar * slide guitar ** bass guitar #in(as musical director)&out
JERRY HANDLEY * bass guitar
JOHN FRENCH drumbo * drums * percussion
DON VAN VLIET captain beefheart * vocals * harmonica ** bass marimba
studio guest RUSS TITELMAN ** guitar #in&out(25)
studio guest MILT HOLLAND ** percussion ** log drums #in&out(25)
studio guest TAJ MAHAL ** percussion #in&out
studio guest SAMUEL HOFFMAN ** theremin in&out

recording:
1967 lp / cd SAFE AS MILK
(same as) elpee DROPOUT BOOGIE
(same as) lp / cd GOLD ROCK
(same as) elpee PLASTIC FACTORY
(same as) ceedee AT HIS BEST
(same as) ceedee ZIG ZAG WANDERER shuffled
later re-issues:
full 2elpee THE CAPTAIN BEEFHEART FILE
full 2lp / 2cd SAFE AS MILK / MIRROR MAN that's original
full 2ceedee MIRROR MAN / SAFE AS MILK two original albums on cd
full ceedee SAFE AS MILK with 7 bonus tracks
full ceedee THE BEST BEEFHEART
ten trackselpee SAFE AS MILK [marble arch label]
later compilations:
six tracks 10" eepee MUSIC IN SEA MINOR
five tracks elpee ABBA ZABA
five tracks elpee TOP SECRET
eight tracks ceedee ELECTRICITY
eight tracks ceedee ZIG ZAG WANDERER the best of the buddah years
two tracks 2ceedee THE DUST BLOWS FORWARD
secret outtakes [disneyland demos]:
five tracks bootleg 2elpee ANOTHER CHAPTER FROM THE LIVES AND TIMES OF CAPTAIN BEEFHEART
five tracks bootleg ceedee PULLER MAN cd
five tracks bootleg 2elpee FRANK ZAPPA with captain beefheart * CHRONICLE
other secret release:
nine tracks bootleg 2ceedee DOODADS [kamasutra acetate]

― J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

OK, fair enough he got a credit; but you must bear in mind that Don has something of a reputation for being economical with the truth and was definitely a huge fan of Taj Mahal's, so he would would have exaggerated any passing involvement that he may have had out of all recognition - and Taj dropping by the studio because a bunch of his mates were involved in a project, and then being persuaded to shake a pair of maracas, is hardly a major involvement, is it?

You may note incidentally that there's no mention of Gary Marker's involvement (either on SAM or on TMR for that matter iirc); but Gary and Ry Cooder both received payments for their services in recording SAM, whereas Taj didn't (fwiw my source for this is one Mr. Gary "Magic" Marker).

Oh and "well researched" isn't really the description I'd use to describe Teejo's site - but believe me we really don't want to re-start the long and bloody war of the Beefheart website proprietors here!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 13:44 (twenty years ago)

But was *anybody* ever actually credited with playing anything on SAM, Stewart? I mean, up until the definitive '90s reissue?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 14:44 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and John "Drumbo" French's genius seconded, thirded, etc. Most important musician in the band other than the Cap'n himself.

(Christ, I bitch about the multiplicity of Beefheart threads and STILL can't help posting to 'em!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 14:47 (twenty years ago)

You sort of had to guess who played on it from the photo on the front (xpost)

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 14:48 (twenty years ago)

A photo which, needless to say, would almost certainly have been of the line-up of the band at the time the artwork was being prepared for the record release, rather than the the line-up that recorded the album.... assuming there was only one line-up involved in recording the album, which most certainly wasn't the case with either SAM or TMR....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 15:51 (twenty years ago)

But John French and Jerry Handley are in the photo? Who is the 4th guy? Is it Ry Cooder?

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

Oh, is the guy in the hat, Alex St. Clair?

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:09 (twenty years ago)

guy in hat with moustache is snouffler, others are drumbo and jerry handley in the fecthing leather gloves. cooder isn't there

― dr x o'skeleton, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:32 (twenty years ago)

It's a shame Detlef Jurgens' Beefheart timeline site has disappeared into the ether, 'cos you'd probably be able to date that photo pretty accurately from the fact that neither Doug Moon, Ry Cooder, Jerry McGhee or Jeff Cotton are in it....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:08 (twenty years ago)

Me neither.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:28 (twenty years ago)

Mama Roux: There's also Strictly Personal, which I always thought of as the most accessible Beefhart. And, with a little google work, you can track down the Peel sessions for Beefhart (I thought I had 'em bookmarked, but I don't, otherwise I'd link).

― js (honestengine), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 18:43 (twenty years ago)

"Newb? Try "Clear Spot" if you want an easy in, Trout Mask Replica if you want to jump in at the deep end. Or "Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) for a bit of everything."
Mr. Grout speaks wisely: although if you've got a major soft spot for 60's garage / US psych / blues-rock / British Invasion then (as you've probably worked out by now from this thread) then Safe As Milk is also definitely worth trying; and if you really must have a comp. then there's only one that's even remotely representative / definitive and that's Rhino's The Dust Blows Forward.

-- Stewart Osborne (stewart.osborn...), January 24th, 2006.

Why, yes. Yes, I do! :)

Thanks for all the recommendations, you guys. Sounds good. I will look into them (as soon as I have the funds, that is). I don't think I'll be starting with Trout Mask Replica, though. Gotta get my feet wet before I jump into that lake. hahaha

Hmm... Perhaps The Spotlight Kid/Clear Spot two-fer and Safe As Milk will be the way to go. I'll try to search out those Peel Sessions, too, js. Thanks again!

― Mama Roux, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 22:40 (twenty years ago)

"Me neither."

Not on the cover maybe, but that surely that was a picture of yourself on the free bumper sticker that came with the original release, wasn't it Mr. G.?

http://www.beefheart.com/datharp/albums/official/pics/bumperstickersm.jpg

May the baby Jesus shut your mouth and open your mind.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 10:20 (twenty years ago)

"Perhaps The Spotlight Kid/Clear Spot two-fer and Safe As Milk will be the way to go."

Unfortunately the mastering of The Spotlight Kid / Clear Spot two-fer is atrocious - and make sure you get the 1999 Buddha reissue of SAM as there are plenty of inferior versions about.

If you want to get the best possible overview of what Beefheart was all about; with 2CD's, in the continued absence of Lick My Decals Off Baby and without including Trout Mask Replica; would suggest either Shiny Beast or Doc At The Radar Station as the best companion to Safe As Milk

"I'll try to search out those Peel Sessions, too, js. Thanks again!"

Beefheart never did a "Peel Session" as such - although they did do a couple of sessions for the slot Peel had on Top Gear (no, nothing to do with Jeremy Clarkson!) before he had his own show, which are often erroneously refferred to as "Peel Sessions".

Sorry, was I being pedantic again?

Anyway, these aren't legitimately available anywhere afaik (although they are reasonably well bootlegged - and if you're really interested you can hear them here) and they aren't particularly essential imo, all the tracks involved being available in superior versions on either (the expanded) Safe As Milk or The Mirror Man Sessions.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 10:43 (twenty years ago)

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