Is Pop Cool Again?

The miserable bastards.

The nebulous concept of Pop Music, as a church broad enough to include all other genres even. Pop's literal and aesthetic definitions and the differences/contradictions within.

The sense of conservatism or heritage (or rockism) that pervades the music of Franz Ferdinand, the Arctic Monkeys, Maximo Park etc., and how it sits at odds with the notion of punk or indie attitude.

The motives of different Cool Police forces (why NME or whoever saying they're cool matters - why it doesn't, and how it means they're totally not cool to other parties - and the worth of 'Coolness' now, what it means (if anything)

So we're saying that pop is Unitarian?

yeah, you should always discount evidence if it risks getting in the way of the truth.

a dirty, stigmatised word used to blanket the crop of manufactured rubbish that proliferated after the success of The Spice Girls in the late 1990's

If The Beatles, a pop group, were around today they would be described as anything but pop by everyone who liked them

Evidence?

To back this argument up you're going to rely on a definition of "Cool" so limited or contrary to its everyday use as to be all but meaningless.

richard x is hip. jacques lu cont is hip. the neptunes are hip. basement jaxx are hip.

Does this subsection include Oasis? Coldplay? Eminem? Scissor Sisters? I mean, _these_ are the biggest selling artists of the past five years, not Gareth Gates and Rosie Ribbons.

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But that aside, I don't think there was a time when a section of the "Indie" scene didn't want to get records high in the charts. You might want to look at the tracklisting of every Now Music compilation and note that they all have a little chunk of "hip" artists" who scored chart hits. You might want to consider Britpop. God knows I don't.

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"is it now more acceptable for bands who define themselves as "alternative" to "mainstream" culture to explicity court wide appeal?" ?

though i guess acceptable to who is another question. also are you really aloud to use the word cool in acadmeic work? what course id this for?

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Does this whole thing stem from the fact that members of the Ordinary Boys and Goldie Lookin' Chain are pimping themselves via Big Brother to shift a few more records? (not that they are particularly "hip", but they ain't Westlife either). Blurring of boudaries? Also, what the hell sort of university lets you write stuff like this and get a degree at the end of it?

I don't see why that is a negative thing at all.

Britpop was a lot better at actually sounding like pop than Nu-Postpunk is tho.

If they are boys, they are very likely to reel off a bunch of hard rock/metal bands though. At least here in Europe.

"richard x is hip. jacques lu cont is hip. the neptunes are hip. basement jaxx are hip." (source: a mentalist whose real name I don't know; www.ilxor.com)

Ask anyone into Jellyfish, Crowded House, Martin Newell and (recent) XTC and they would certainly call the Beatles pop. All of these people consider themselves pop lovers, that is, true pop, not pap, schlock, R&B or hip-hop.

(the more Geir stays the same)

I mean, I like the Arctic Monkeys' current single and will listen to Franz Ferdinand of my own accord....

Learn the language of the street - what people say and the topics they like to talk about. Take a look at these music words and phrases and then take the Lingo Challenge!

People working in music more Lingo

* A bassist - Someone who plays bass guitar.
* A guitarist - Someone who plays a guitar.
* A lead singer - The main singer in the band.
* A drummer - The person who plays percussion and the drums.
* A programmer - Someone who creates music by mixing different bits or samples of others.
* A singer songwriter - Someone who writes and sings their own songs, eg Paul McCartney.
* A boy band - A group of young men brought together by a record company.

Types of music

* Trance - DJ Quicksilver, Nomad, etc.
* Ambient - Tangerine Dream to Brian Eno, Aphex Twin to Penguin Cafe Orchestra, etc.
* Disco - Modern Talking, Steps, etc.
* Techno - David Holmes, Laurent Garnier, Dave Clarke, etc.
* Heavy metal - Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Guns n Roses, Nirvana, Limp Bizkit, etc.
* Indie [abbrev. Independent ie not mainstream] - Coldplay, Muse, Stereophonics, etc.
* Dance - Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Leftfield, etc.
* Drum and bass - Roni Size, Grooverider, etc.
* Jungle - Goldie, Digital, Photek, etc.
* Hip hop - Grandmaster Flash, Wu Tang Clan, Dr Dre, Eminem, etc.
* UK Garage - Truesteppers, Artful Dodger, Wookie, etc.
* Britpop - mid 90s British pop / rock - Blur, Pulp, Oasis, Suede, Elastica, etc.

In the studio

* In the studio William Orbit mixed some of the tracks on Madonna's last CD. - He worked on the sound and arranged the music.
* Chinn and Chapman produced a lot of the famous bands from the 1970s. - They decided on the songs and the sound of the bands so the music had a distinctive sound.
* Most bands record many demo versions of their music. - Recordings of songs before their final production.

Making the music

* They got a really good deal with Warner Brothers. - They've been signed up by a major record company.
* She did vocals on Radiohead's latest release. - She sang on Radiohead's last CD.
* The concert's been sold out for weeks. - All the tickets were sold weeks ago.
* They were headlining at Glastonbury. - They were the main band at Glastonbury [a festival often held on a farm in the south west of England].
* Paul McCartney is a great singer-songwriter - He writes his own songs and performs them.
* Maria Callas was a famous soprano. One of her greatest performances was as Violetta. She was accompanied by the famous tenor Arrigo Pola - These are terms often used in the description of operatic performers.
* The orchestra at the Royal Opera House was conducted by Bernard Heitink. - The conductor is the person who leads the orchestra.

Musical ability

* I can play the trumpet but I'm not very good at the piano. My brother can't play anything! - These are examples of using play to describe what instruments you can use.
* I wish Jemima wouldn't sing - she's tone deaf! - Jemima is someone who can't sing in tune or recognise different tunes.
* I've been able to sightread since I was six. - I can play music the first time I see it on a page.
* She was born to sing. - She is very talented at singing.

Lingo Challenge

Try using as many of these phrases as you can in a one-minute conversation! How many will you manage to use? Have fun!

Either be honest that there's a debate or shut up; you're better than this.

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What do you mean by "again"?

but the danger for the guy who wants to write his MA on this topic is that without any specific focus he'll end up just trying to define terms ('pop' and 'cool').

I notice the thread starter's not been round for a bit. Maybe he's cleared off to the NME boards or something where nobody's contesting his central thesis that the Arctic Monkeys are the height of hip.