Do Many British Folks Miss The Dynamic Punk/New-Wave Scene ?

The record industry didn't tire of arty anti-money types, rather it was the other way round. The independant sector was where they all lived.

Then one day, Oasis happened, and suddenly one week in the top twenty "wasn't good enough" to use Noel's quote. Britpop happened, and all the money that went to many bands, went to a few. And all the arty stuff died off.

Then Britney came along, and other US based pop music, so Britpop died off.

It's only just recovering now.

That's a simplified take on it, but hey you guys can argue the details...

I would have to take issue with the word "suddenly"....

"Did the record executive elite get sick of those individualists
who pursued art 1st and money 2nd ? Did they decide
to usher those undesireable ones out of the business ?
Were the artists just too manically creative, and did they just exhaust themselves ?"

Yes, all of these reasons and many, many more.

Some compromised and sold out, some refused to compromise and suffocated for lack of exposure.

Some shone brightly but briefly and burned themselves out; some shone less brightly but for longer.

Some people just got bored with what they were doing; or pissed off with the people they were doing it with; or disappointed because they weren't as successful as they had hoped; or pissed off with living the lifestyle of a less-than-entirely-succesful musician; or just felt they were too old to be doing it any more.

To a great extent also, I think the people who were listening stopped having to make so much effort and risk so much aggro to hear what they wanted to hear, so they stopped caring so much about what they listened to and generally became lazy and apathetic.

As the listeners became lazier and less discerning, a handful of acts became more and more successful, most of the others became less and less successful; in most cases until they disappeared altogether; and to an extent the pre-'77 status quo reasserted itself.

The question for me is not about how / why or when did the original bands and musicians stop; bands and musicians stopping for one reason or another is in the nature of things; but why did nothing (OK, not literally "nothing", but certainly a dramatic reduction) come along to take their place?

The only answer I can find lies in the fact that the unique combination of factors that had produced that extraordinary wave of creativity in the first place; not least the urgent need for some fresh blood in the music scene that had existed beforehand; had simply ceased to apply.

(xxx-post)

It's not that theres nothing fantastic now. it's just that there's not as much of it.

Never mind entertained/inspired, I was created by this stuff. I'm just now rediscovering it after 20 years pursuing indie/house/baggy/grunge/goth/britpop etc. (you can't say nothing came along, Stewart! Dance music was crazy innovative in the late 80's)

Surely one of the most corporate pop groups ever!

This is very true - and there is indeed some great stuff coming out at the moment - but "recycled" is very much the key word here and part of what made the punk / post punk era so exciting was the feeling that so much of what was happening was new and groundbreaking and experimental and exciting.

The point is, those bands were groundbreaking, unique, courageously creative, uninhibited and just plain STRANGE.And the void they left
is massive.

Here's a conspiracy theory : the new-wave/punk-rock movement was far too progressive and anti-establishment for elitist corporate CEO's (who have ties to manipulatory politicians and media), so they decided to shut it down in order to halt intellectual/artistic enlightenment and facilitate the dumbing down and regression of society with gangsta rap, hodge-podge hip-hop, blatant retro rip-offs and cheap covers, sampling, recycling, 1-dimensional pristine polished britney-pop, artificial techo/dance/rave garbage, etc.

Now maybe they didn't meet in a secret boardroom and strategically
conspire, but maybe they did.Sure, we have Broken Social Scene, The Scissor Sisters and other innovative acts with intricate/complex/unique musical ideas, but they are
relegated to fringe status.Radiohead becoming mainstream was
an exception.

The ruthless, greedy, manipulative, short-term profiteers who run the music industry really don't want acts
who intellectually and artistically expand the horizons of mankind...
they want to develop a stupid, violent, shallow, conformist, unoriginal herd of people, and compel them into a bin of
lame and limited existence, and turn them into prozakked sheep
bowing to authoritarian decree.

It's all about control of the collective.Individualistic
and chaotic expressionism via *atypical* melodic, harmonic, rhythmic
and lyrical patterns/ideas/devices are to be curtailed
in the interest of stifling independant thought.

This paralyzes social tendencies for questioning/opposing authority (in government, media, military, police, corporate world, etc.), and
renders the sheeple malleable cannon fodder, easily programmable
and conditionable.

The New-Wave/Punk-Rock movement was eradictated.Obliterated.Across the board, with no exception.When the musical room was vacated by
Ant, Partridge, Lydon and Numan, the controllers subsequently fumigated the room and prevented innovative anti-establishment
artistry from entering.

It's time to find ways around and beyond that monitored/manipulated room, and destroy it entirely if need be.

Yes! I've been waiting for years for someone to say this!

Therein your problem.

It's all about control of the collective.Individualistic
and chaotic expressionism via *atypical* melodic, harmonic, rhythmic
and lyrical patterns/ideas/devices are to be curtailed
in the interest of stifling independant thought.

read this with various "ah"'s at the end of sentences and you have Fall lyrics. Except less witty

Grammer check !

Quite true.Just because a band from that era became successful
and was marketable, doesn't mean their musical content
was fluffy, plastic, corporate or unoriginal.

Listen to their classic "Rio", it has mainstream and progressive
elements intertwined.Depth of harmony, melody, rhythm, lyrics, phrasing and orchestration.Dynamic sections and a glorious instrumental solo.The chances of that song being a hit, let alone released, in today's shallow, stupid, unoriginal corporate environment are absolutely nil.

BTW, my conspiracy theory is purely supplementary to the multi-factored common-sense theory stated by Stewart Osborne.

But just because a theory is improbable, doesn't mean it is
impossible.The current corporate paradigm often compels us to instantly discard and spit on anti-authoritarian theories,
in the interest of a simple and naive comfort zone, facilitating
more malleable conformity and avoidance of alternative thought patterns.

And out of that stifled creative/conceptual abyss, Stooges, Sex Pistols, Clash, Damned, Ants, and other artistic rebels are born...

This paralyzes social tendencies for questioning/opposing authority (in government, media, military, police, corporate world, etc.), and
renders the sheeple malleable cannon fodder, easily programmable
and conditionable."

There's nothing like a good conspiracy theory to keep the fires of righteous indigantion burning brightly, is there?

Try this one for size then:

If there was some sort of conspiracy involved here, the first thing that the conspirators achieved; and which caused the most damage to the scene and did the most to neuter it as a force for social (rather than just musical) change; was when they successfully managed to "divide and rule" the components of the original Punk scene into two different sections: the 90 MPH guitar-based shouting and thrashing bit (Ramones, Heartbreakers, Sex Pistols, early Damned, early Clash, Vibrators, Angelic Upstarts, Sham 69, UK Subs etc.) which continued to be called "Punk" (and subsequently spawned Oi! in the UK and in the US Hardcore, etc.); and those with a more "arty" tendencies (Television, Talking Heads, Pere Ubu, Suicide, Devo, Wire, XTC etc.) which were originally relabelled "New Wave" and subsequently "Post Punk", "Goth", "Indie", etc. etc. etc..

Of course it wasn't easy - a lot of the acts defied such easy categorisation (Blondie, Buzzcocks, Jam, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Slits, X-Ray Spex) or subsequently reinvented themselves so as to change categories (John Lydon with PiL, Damned, Clash, Adam & The Ants, Adverts).

Whether the object was to ensure that those with an aggressive tendency were less likely to be intellectually challenged (politicised?) and those with arty / intellectual tendencies were less likely to be exposed to those elements which were powerful enough to represent a real potential for forcing social / political change; or simply to make it easier for people to browse the different sections in the record shops and find music they liked; who knows?

I'll leave that for your paranoia to decide.

The wealthy elite in business, government and military live, meet up and decide their next moves (and your future) in secrecy, without your or the public's consent.When their brutal acts of manipulation and mayhem are discovered, they rationalize, evade and apologize
nervously under the lights.

It is only repressive, scared, conformist, unaware, sheltered,
conditioned, moronic and shallow people who label conspiracies as "paranoid" or those who formulate conspiracy theories as "in need of psychiatric help".

It takes alot of vision, insight, logic and courage to accuse powerful untouchables of engaging in clandestine manipulation.
It is that act of conspiring which allows generations of elites to
sustain their powerful elitist status indefinitely, while the masses endure their wrath.

There is new and groundbreaking and experimental music around today as well. Just you (and I agree with you) don't like it and don't find it exciting in any way. Enjoy the new wave of new wave, and realise that whatever is groundbreaking today, you aren't likely to enjoy.

The bits with my name after them generally are - although naturally I take exception to the word "merely" in this context.

In answer to the thread. No, I don't miss it. You can listen to the old records if you want, but the vanguard now is never going to sound like the vanguard then.

Hmmm, should I....

A) Believe in non-conspiratorial, multi-factored,
common-sense, mainstream theories of natural development

B) Believe in the existence of secretive acts of
elitist manipulation

C) A & B

D) None of the above

I'll go with C) .....

Details argued, that's for sure.

I'll boil down the conspiracy to a couple brief points:

1) You'd think that the record industry would be unhappy with the situation being: In the late seventies, through the eighties, the sales of records/music were highest they'd ever been. Singles particularly. However, so much was in the 'independant sector' (not meaning indie labels as such, more non-corporate areas)

2) However, now that sales and breaking of artists is a more exact science, generally if a label spends enough time, money and effort on breaking an artist, that artist will succeed. Now, nothing else matters.

Even though the returns are much lower, they are more certain. But that's how they like it. What's better, £10 million in someone elses pocket, or £1 million in yours?

(they warp the brain of even one infamous
psychedelic peppy...)

Oh yeah, I love that warm transistor synth sound
of Magazine & The (early) Human League ...and Adam
And The Ants Anarchistic (Antartistic, Antarchistic ?) harmonic "language".... lol... a 2-note disco guitar
riff in E followed by the craziest
chords not found in any book... grrrumphle.

http://www.utterlyrics.com/m/magazine/play-1980/a-song-from-under-the-floorboards.html

http://www.utterlyrics.com/h/human-league/travelogue-1980/the-black-hit-of-space.html

http://www.utterlyrics.com/a/adam-ant/kings-of-the-wild-frontier-1980/don-t-be-square.html