The Hold Steady - Boys and Girls In America

unrelatedly (and i've probably asked before), you wouldn't happen to know where i could find a recording of "212-margarita", would you (or anyone)?

I haven't had a chance to hear any of these songs live. This is Xmas in July.

I know they did John Berryman too cause Craig told the story of it onstage, but I can't remember much about the song

anyway: HYPED!

"the devil and john berryman / took a walk together / and they ended up on washington / talking to the river."

this album is going to rule

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT1fxhnaN-8

song about a racehorse

"Chips Ahoy!"

one that had a really big group-harmony chorus

this one I was talking about is called "Massive Nights" ... it's not so much a harmony as a big "whoa-ohhhh-oh-oh" shouty part behind the real chorus ... still rad, definitely my fave on the record so far.

I also like "Chillout Tent," pretty vivid characters ...

haha Finn is getting more and more into the Paul Stanley School of "I'll play every so often whenever I feel like it" Frontman Guitar Playing (TM)

There are nights when I think Sal Paradise was right.
Boys and Girls in America have such a sad time together.
Sucking off each other at the demonstrations
Making sure their makeup’s straight
Crushing one another with colossal expectations.
Dependent, undisciplined, and sleeping late.

She was a really cool kisser and she wasn’t all that strict of a Christian.
She was a damn good dancer but she wasn’t all that great of a girlfriend.
She likes the warm feeling but she’s tired of all the dehydration.
Most nights are crystal clear
But tonight it’s like it’s stuck between stations
On the radio.

The devil and John Berryman
Took a walk together.
They ended up on Washington
Talking to the river.
He said “I’ve surrounded myself with doctors
And deep thinkers.
But big heads with soft bodies
Make for lousy lovers.”
There was that night that we thought John Berryman could fly.
But he didn’t
So he died.
She said “You’re pretty good with words
But words won’t save your life.”
And they didn’t.
So he died.

He was drunk and exhausted but he was critically acclaimed and respected.
He loved the Golden Gophers but he hated all the drawn out winters.
He likes the warm feeling but he’s tired of all the dehydration
Most nights were kind of fuzzy
But that last night he had total retention.

These Twin Cities kisses
Sound like clicks and hisses.
We all tumbled down and
Drowned in the Mississippi River.

We drink
We dry up
Then we crumble to dust.

this is hilarious. I'm calling Vagrant.

again, this is just in general, I don't know what else Vagrant has coming out or if that is the reason.

xpost - what Matos said, too

And then I can't hack it. At all.

in what way are they comparable to bright eyes lyrics? not that I should bother, but what the hell

sounds pretty emo to me

But Oberst almost always keeps it focused on the "me" and the "now." He doesn't allow the personal to billow out into the political/historical/philosophical like Mssrs. Finn and (Sufjan) Stevens. Oberst, as a youth obsessed with youthful self-obsession, lacks perspective and isn't interested in feigning it.

So while Bright Eyes might write something vaguely like the first two stanzas, in general... Nah.

Great final few lines, I think. Can't wait to hear the song proper. As conedust says, simply using the word "we" as opposed to "I" and "me" differentiates it from Oberst style emo.

i dont' think there is as much of a difference as people like to suggest

RONG

most pop(ular) =/= worst

that's not my reasoning at all. separation sunday was the most popular one at the time it was released and that's probably my favorite of his, with the possible exception of half dead and dynamite.

i just think his lyrical thing is getting really used up...i cannot stand how boys and girls sounds, it's so fucking squashed in mastering and the instruments, esp. the piano sound really fake and digital...finn can't sing for shit never has been able to so i wish he wouldn't try...i hate that cheeze ass dude w/the moustache, seems like a session dude jobber, really takes away some of the gang of rock dude vibe for me.

chillout tent is horrid as mentioned above, godawful vocals by pirner on that. and i'm sort of a soul asylum defender most of the time.

it's like they decided to place all these epic classic rock sonic signifiers like more piano and "whoo oo oo" backing vox without any regard to the fact that they were actually appropriate or would help finn's very distinct vibe come off better.

and, outside of "stuck between stations" the tunes just aren't there. this one feels like running on fumes big time.

and as anthony alluded to, for a record that supposed to be your big rock coming out party, why bury the vocals in the mix?? it's like they don't bury tom petty in the mix on a heartbreakers record, which seems like what you thought you were going for.

RITE

well you do make a great case for it being a poor album, comparatively speaking of course.

i agree that the production is godawful; i haven't seen Sick Mouthy write about the mastering on this particular record, but if he hasn't mentioned it somewhere i'd be really surprised. i do think it sucks the life out of some of the recorded songs...live, they are much better. it sounds like you dislike the keyboard guy's image more than his contributions to the songs, which work well in places and in others, not so well.

disagree that the tunes aren't there: hot soft light, same kooks, first night, massive nights, southtown girls are all excellent. and like you mentioned, stuck btw stations.

I think BAGIA is Craig's second or third best album, actually. It sounds more like a transitional work than like a "running on fumes" kind of deal to me; sorta their coming to terms with their inner Springsteen once and for all, maybe.

I think Separation Sunday is a warmer record, in terms of production and characters in the songs. I enjoy Boys and Girls... less, but I only began listening to it recently: I do this thing with records I love where I don't want to listen to anything else by the band (and boy do I love Separation Sunday), but I'm going to see the Hold Steady next week and so I figure I should know the newer songs.

Yeah, Separation Sunday is certainly the stronger, more coherent record, but I still nevertheless appreciate the band's attempt of capturing a somewhat more grandiose (Bruce!) sound on BAGIA.

*at capturing, even.

those lyrics are terrible. sounds like something bright eyes would write.
-- boonah (boonah)

in what way are they comparable to bright eyes lyrics? not that I should bother, but what the hell
-- Thomas Tallis (Tommy)

"Boys and Girls in America have such a sad time together.
Sucking off each other at the demonstrations"
sounds pretty emo to me
-- kevin barking (arghargh)

so, lemme see if I got this: if there is a sad person in a song, it's like Bright Eyes
-- Thomas Tallis (Tommy)

Yes, and if there's a happy person it's like Sugar Ray.
-- Ned Raggett (Ned)

one of my favorite-ever ILM exchanges right there ^^^

How is this emo? I thought emo people never got laid.
-- Mr. Que (Mr.Que)

conor oberst DEFINITELY gets laid
-- kevin barking (arghargh)

how was he
-- dmr (Renard)

also ^^^

I definitely like some of the non-album tracks from these sessions better than some of the album ones; unlike Chuck E., I actually like a higher percentage of "indie" with the "classic" with The Hold Steady.

"Arms and Hearts" is great; "For Boston," "Girls Like Status," and "Teenage Liberation" are fun too.

"She said that she was cumming, but she just made hard fast noises / It kind of sounded like The Locust"

!!!

unlike Chuck E., I actually like a higher percentage of "indie" with the "classic" with The Hold Steady.

at the end of the day, i just like lifter puller way better. but that could be sort of a "time and place" thing for me. but damn i dunno, "nasseau colisseum", "the bears", all that shit...i love lifter puller so much.

she says she really loves agnostic front
they got crazy fast guitars

M@tt is right, though my favorite is and will always be Fiestas + Fiascos. But considering the first two THS albums are right behind it, that's no slam on the current band. Saw them last night--very good, though the venue (HUB Ballroom in U of Washington) was really ill-suited to . . . anyone, really.

Yeah, I just listened to GABIA for the first time in...oh...8/9 months or so and it really was kind of irritating (and not in a very good way). And, yeah, most of the songs would probably benefit greatly from a live setting, true enough. (BTW, I never understood your love for Fiestas + Fiascos, Matos--it always sounded kind of dull to me.)

Listened to Boys and Girls In America, that is.

M@tt otm about BAGIA's mastering. That and more-of-the-same-songs meant it didn't get much play last year, after Separation Sunday topped my list in '05, but you guys are making me consider playing it again.

I don't get the hate for "Chillout Tent". In fact, I'd say it's the highlight of the second half of the record, because the female vocals are such a relief after the flatness of the songs right before it. Probably I'd choose it or "Chips Ahoy" as the tops on this record.

Agreed, "Chillout Tent" is great!

Heard the last one recently at work and its more inoffensive than I remembered, even if I still can't find a reason to think its outstanding. Still seems like gradual downhill since Fiestas.

though if I was a junkie and or catholic I'd probably give it up for Separation Sunday more.

When you love (or worse, loved) a band so much, they've really got nowhere to go but down. Everything becomes post-climatic. It's nobody's fault. And for newcomers, chances are, the entry point will always hold a certain special place even if they do eventually locate a band's true peak. I'm sure people who experienced THS for the first time with America were appropriately blown away by the things the band still does right. Whether they eventually appreciate SS or Lifter-Puller depends on their level of interest. Logic would say they would, but who can apply logic to these things?

Fact: no matter how you feel about B&G in America -- and there are pros and cons (I, too, would like the vocals to be louder and think the glockenspiel should be much lower if used at all) -- it's still better than 90 per cent of the shit I hear elsewhere.

Now, whether the band ever reaches the suckiness of other once great bands...well, we'll see. Keep at it long enough and the law of averages works against you.

Much of the criticisms seem more like love notes from ex-boy/girlfriends. You remember the good times but something keeps reminding you why it didn't work out in the end. Over time, you'll even really mean it when you say you wish them the best.

Then again, if they let the glockenspiel take over, they should rot in hell and they can't have their clothes back!

I heard LP well after I heard HS.

I haven't listened to BGiA in a little while: where's the offending glock? Also Chillout Tent is great.

xposts:

I'm just feeling a serious urge to rock and other than the Hold Steady, I can't find any touring rock bands that don't suck badly right now.

That's crazy. There are a ton rock bands touring and plenty of them don't suck badly and most of them don't have the the fame of The Hold Steady and certainly don't charge $50 for a ticket.

it's more of a "someone showed me this photo, and WOW you were hotter in college" thing for me than an ex deal.

isn't "chillout tent" just the logical endpoint of the position as "new voice of the generation" that finn has kind of found himself in? if anyone was gonna write a song about two people falling in love at some OD tent at a festival, i would have guessed craig finn. it seems all too perfect tbh.

ey steve that dude was wondering whether he should try to scalp a HS ticket for $50. i don't think they are charging that much for their concerts just yet.

not to get all songmeanings on you but in "Chillout Tent" does the girl end up singing "and I MUST find that boy again"? The lyrics on the Hold Steady webpage don't indicate a change, but while the guy keeps singing "I never saw that boy again" it sure sounds like she changes to something else.

Not to be all flippant or anything but while I don't really know anything by this band at all really, what I do know sounds pretty average to me but you all seem to be freaking out so much that it makes me think I'm just missing the point or something. Is there like a specific point or do I just not get it whatsoever?

Agreed, "Chillout Tent" is great!

OTM, then again I'm a sucker for Elizabeth's voice. Always have been.

ey steve that dude was wondering whether he should try to scalp a HS ticket for $50. i don't think they are charging that much for their concerts just yet.

Ah, my mistake. Still, if you like The Hold Steady because they rock, the idea that they're the only live band that does so kind of baffles.

ey steve that dude was wondering whether he should try to scalp a HS ticket for $50. i don't think they are charging that much for their concerts just yet.

the Hold Steady show in Austin TX last year was still $12 -- the same price they've been charging for 5 years or so now. totally works for me. i think the Hold Steady/Art Brut show was about $20 but i skipped it; seen the former i think 4 times now, don't care for the latter.

my favorite is and will always be Fiestas + Fiascos.

Mine too, for sure - I first read about LFTR PLLR in Your Flesh (!) years ago and bought the album blind, then saw them 4 times before their demise... I was totally obsessed. And I still think that album is perfect from start to finish.

Your Flesh=mad respect in the hood!

yeah, I've never liked "Chillout Tent." and the idea that Fiestas is boring = ????!?!??!!?

Fiestas + Fiascos is so nice. It's Nice, Nice even. It's like being shot out of an indie rock cannon for half an hour.

Still, if you like The Hold Steady because they rock, the idea that they're the only live band that does so kind of baffles.

To further clarify: the only currently touring rock-and-roll band that I've heard of that is coming through the Baltimore/DC metro area before the holidays. But anyway, I'm not going to do it specifically because Art Brut is opening and like, fuck all that noise.

Not to be all flippant or anything but while I don't really know anything by this band at all really, what I do know sounds pretty average to me but you all seem to be freaking out so much that it makes me think I'm just missing the point or something. Is there like a specific point or do I just not get it whatsoever?

The lead singer -- who is a good and clever lyricist -- makes the band special.

Could someone more adept at this site please start a poll for YAY or NAY Chillout Tent. I'd like to see the breakdown. It seems to be a polarizing tune. I think civilization would benefit greatly from this knowledge. It makes all that red state-blue state bullshit even more trivial.

Please someone.

And the lead singer buys beer for the audience if they cheer loud enough.

Also, something about a "rite of passage" for Minnesotan youth. But you'll have to ask them about that.

Smurfherder, I created a poll for the song.

For Chillout Tent, that is.

thank you. you have single-handedly saved humanity. We all thank you. Three Hanclaps.

that's Handclaps....

and the idea that Fiestas is boring = ????!?!??!!?

Not boring, just a bit dull in comparison with Craig's other releases. And it's largely your fault, now that I think of it: i.e., it was your Soft Rock review in the Voice that convinced me to give LP a try in the first place--and I'm ever so grateful, don't get me wrong. But you made F+F sound so great in that same review (and elsewhere) that I found it somewhat underwhelming when I finally heard it a year or two ago. Still, maybe I should give it another shot in tribute to this thread.

met these dudes at a show, they shoot live stuff in mpls - local and national shit -- but damn this is the hold steady, raging footage and i've NEVER heard better audio quality on locally shot shit, hell even national stuff...

http://scheduletwo.com/video/the_hold_steady/the_swish

Wow, great site - I'm downloading the .mp4s for my iPod right now! (it's taking forever but seems totally worth it). Thanks for the tip...

nice Blues Traveler song to close the record