Could an artist you consider inconsequential put out a year-end-best-of? Has this happened?

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Okay, so there's a group that's been around for a while, and they've never risen above mediocre at best, according to conventional wisdom.

They remain popular enough to stick around, but they merit disregard from the likes of ILM.

Has such a group ever, on say their 11th or so album, stunned everyone with a stone-cold classic? A year-end-best-of?

The group that hatched this question in my mind is Indigo Girls. Quite a following, a career whose longevity is remarkable, but nobody on here (besides me) likes them that much. Could they drop a stunningly crafted album that is widely accepted as great? Or would prejudicial feelings about said group keep them in the "meh" category?

Has this happened before?

― Justin Shumaker (shueytexas), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

i always thought of Broadcast as pretty mediocre until last year. tender buttons was one of my favorites from '05.

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

it happened in 1989

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

The Bee Gees.

― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

AND 1994 (this one isn't so obvious so I'll tell you: His'N'Hers)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

and also 2000. Screamadelica was pretty dull and is now v.v.v. dated, ditto Vanishing Point. XTRMNTR SLAYS!

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

(not forgetting Pet Sounds. although it's not IMO the best of its year there are plenty IWO it is)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Bee Gees First and Odessa are merely mediocre?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

People who had never listened to Wilco went crazy when Yankee Hotel Foxtrot came out. Me included.

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Summerteeth > YHF

― Mallory L . O'Donnell (That Bitch Camille), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Separations is a madly underrated album. Far more interesting to return to than His N Hers, which is half-great and half a Different Class dry run. It is also quite classy, if a minor work.

What's the 1989 reference?

― Mallory L . O'Donnell (That Bitch Camille), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

And if you say Depeche Mode, you best lock your door because I have a very, very long very, very sharp knife.

― Mallory L . O'Donnell (That Bitch Camille), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

I think A Ghost is Born is better than YHF but the end of year list people went crazy for that one.

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: Beastie Boys, Paul's Boutique?

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

I believe that Tom Waits was genrally considered second-tier L.A. singer/songwriter until Swordfishtrombones knocked 'em dead.

― bendy (bendy), Sunday, 30 July 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Well, probably Talk Talk, though I wasn't around for their first two albums, but I imagine that following them, a lot who had written the band off reversed their opinions 180 degrees.

― ivan tasev (Ivan T), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

Green Day's American Idiot?

― pinder (pinder), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

Yep, it was Talk Talk. COS does nothing for me but SOE is worshipped by (practically) everyone who's heard it, for a good reason.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

Flaming Lips seem almost too obvious but I'll throw them out there.

Yo La Tengo could also be a contender. They've pretty much gotten better with each album (except for the last one/don't know about the new one) although personally I don't love any of their albums all the way through.

But the new His Name is Alive album Detrola is quite fantastic in a surprising way.

Also, I didn't really like anything by Giant Sand until Chore of Enchantment.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Sunday, 30 July 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

American Idiot was a step down from previous Green Day albums. Except for the one with the acoustic ballad, that was about as bad as American Idiot.

― milo z (mlp), Sunday, 30 July 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

too bad Spirit of Eden came out in 1988. DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT 200 CRED POINTS

And I hardly think it's fair to describe Talk Talk as "inconsequential" prior to that point; even if the earlier albums weren't as widely-acclaimed, I'm sure "It's My Life" and "Life's What You Make It" found their way onto plenty of year-end lists. 'great singles band' =/= 'inconsequential', fuck yr ROCKIST MATH (nb THIS IS A JOKE)

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Sunday, 30 July 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

Like your style. I should probably end every single one of my posts the same way myself(nb THIS IS A JOKE)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yo La Tengo could also be a contender. They've pretty much gotten better with each album

this would be "damning w/faint praise"

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 30 July 2006 22:02 (nineteen years ago)

Though your question refers to albums, I'll apply it to a song. I used to be a fan of Counting Crows; now I find most of their music boring. Still, their song "High Life" is, in my mind, one of the greatest songs ever, but no one cares about it.

― Tape Store (Tape Store), Sunday, 30 July 2006 22:41 (nineteen years ago)

Nick Cave - Murder Ballads
The KLF - Chill Out

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Sunday, 30 July 2006 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, a band who have released a single brilliant song amidst absolute dross was Gay Dad with the wonderful Black Ghost. The rest of the album stinks of month-old regurgitated Camembert.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

B-b-but aren't you their drummer?

― Faceless Man U Popper (noodle vague), Sunday, 30 July 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

i was trying to think of a way to shoehorn that in. i see you failed too :-P

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:02 (nineteen years ago)

More recently: hadn't a lot of people written off Modest Mouse prior to The Moon & Antarctica?

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

I also kinda like U2's The Wanderer, and in their Passengers guise Your Blue Room is wonderful, by far their best song. Aside from that...nah

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:12 (nineteen years ago)

AND 1994 (this one isn't so obvious so I'll tell you: His'N'Hers)

Must have been something in the water in 1994, because that was the year Guided By Voices released Bee Thousand, their breakthrough after years and years of toiling in obscurity.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

I also never thought much of Aimee Mann before her Magnolia soundtrack...

But I'm curious about the original spirit of the question which is more predictive. Instead of bands that may or may not have done it, what bands could do it? I'm going to have to say Ben Lee. Everything he's released thus far in his 13 or so year career has struck my ears as thoroughly mediocre (including last year's "comeback" album). But he's still young and he's got some talent I won't discount him putting out a "year end" best perhaps in the next five or so years.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

Coldplay

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Sunday, 30 July 2006 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

Coldplay

Really? I thought their last album was pretty much received as standard Coldplay, not the album that took them to any kind of next level.

― Justin Shumaker (shueytexas), Monday, 31 July 2006 00:43 (nineteen years ago)

Indeed; I was responding (sarcastically and some might say humourously) to Jacobo's question 'Instead of bands that may or may not have done it, what bands could do it?'...

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 00:49 (nineteen years ago)

That said, they really could. Honestly. Chris Martin might just be one heroin addiction away from turning into Hollis Mark II...

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

Everyone I know scoffs, but I really truly believe that Franz Ferdinand is capable of making a classic, timeless album. Fuck the angular dancey guitar shit, the ballads on the second album were so goddamn good, full of these incredibly graceful unexpected melodic twists and shit. I'M NOT CRAZY, I SWEAR

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:05 (nineteen years ago)

I actually thought their first album wasn't bad until the copycat tsunami struck. 'Darts Of Pleasure', 'Come On Down', 'Michael' constituted some fine songcraft and your statement isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. Especially if Kapranos picks up some songwriting tips from his future brother-in-law.

;-)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:08 (nineteen years ago)

I absolutely hate using the (non-)word "beatlesque", but there is really no other way to describe the lead-in to the chorus of "Fade Together".

Are you talking about Eleanor Friedberger? I thought they broke up or something. I've kind of always hated the Furnaces. I think I liked the chorus of "Straight Street", but that's about it.

I really like Alex Kapranos's voice. This is an issue on which I feel strongly.

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

I honestly don't mind you liking his voice. I really like Jon Anderson's voice and Paul Draper's voice but their respective bands were amongst the most ruthlessly slaughtered (and still are) by music-writers. I was talking about (Matt) Friedberger, but in full awareness that it would arouse some opposition. After all, they are amongst the most ruthlessly... ;-)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

I think I tolerated the one or two songs I heard from Gallowsbird's Bark or whatever that one was called. Haven't listened to any post-BB stuff; is it better? Would I find it more palatable? HERE ARE SOME BANDS I LIKE SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE THIS CALL Archers of Loaf Talk Talk My Morning Jacket Dismemberment Plan Pavement Akron/Family Replacements Modest Mouse XTC almost anything that Why? and/or doseone are involved with and Murmur and half of Reckoning but no other REM stuff *gasp*

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:40 (nineteen years ago)

IMO Talk Talk and XTC were two of the three best bands of the 80's (Talk Talk for one album alone), The Cure being the other :)

Erm, I regard BB as their best but you might like some of the more straightforward (ie non-wanky) songs from Bitter Tea, i.e. Police Sweater Blood Vow, Waiting To Know You, the edited Benton Harbour Blues. You'd hate RMC (I can tell you that now. I don't like it much myself and I worship Yes ferchrissakes). Unless you like pointlessly complicated stories.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

listening to "Waiting to Know You" right now

this kind of sounds like a bad Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots outtake

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:07 (nineteen years ago)

that was probably a bad choice :S

Actually, go for Nevers. It goes a bit weird towards the end, but believe me, it's fantastic!

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:09 (nineteen years ago)

no I'M STICKING WITH THIS ONE

it also sounds kind of obnoxiously autotuned, esp on the line that sounds like "the sea / could bear one for me" or whatever

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:12 (nineteen years ago)

(after further listening I guess she's saying "to see / could there one for me / be?" which is a pretty crappy lyric. I am: NOT FEELIN' IT)

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:14 (nineteen years ago)

There are other fish in the sea (you have missed a whopper, though) ;-)

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:18 (nineteen years ago)

okay now Benton Harbor Blues Again (I assume this is the one you meant) sounds like an outtake from some twee-pop group I would not enjoy

oh ooh I'm digging the motown vibe I'm gettin' from those warm little guitar stabs though

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:22 (nineteen years ago)

alright, so that was okay, even with the pointless synth noodling bits. but I get the feeling that these more mellow, low-key numbers are the exception rather than the rule. and I still find the vocals pretty perfunctory and uninspiring.

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:26 (nineteen years ago)

if they're not your bag, they're not your bag. sometimes even I have my doubts about the Fieries though.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:33 (nineteen years ago)

the dismemberment plan's first two albums were fun, though not amazing. then "emergency & i" came out and it basically ruled over everything.

i also happen to think that of montreal hit a major mid-career peak with the last two albums.

― Emily B (Emily B), Monday, 31 July 2006 02:59 (nineteen years ago)

"Nick Cave - Murder Ballads"

you have got to be fucking kidding.

― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 31 July 2006 03:11 (nineteen years ago)

No, I'm gonna back Jagger up on the Fiery Furnaces now. Still think BB is their best one and RMC got played to death when I got it even if I never get around to it these days. EP is where all the pop *classics* are though. Not sure what I meant by those asterisks.

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

OTM, forgot about EP. Evergreen, Cousin Chris and Sweet Spots aren't at all scary and moreover they are very very good.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

What's OTM, and don't forget about Smelling Cigarettes, the final melody is a killer!

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

On The Mark (I had to ask as well). Smelling Cigarettes is a little disjointed IMO but yeah, the final melody is the best bit.

― Louis Jagger (Haberdager), Monday, 31 July 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

can someone delete ILM, like, now?

― Baaderonixx immer wieder (baaderonixx), Monday, 31 July 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

Colour Of Spring is a fucking great album.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 31 July 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

Yo La Tengo has gotten better with each album?

No way! They peaked with Painful and Electr-o-pura.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

I'll take And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out and I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One over those two in a second. Painful and Electr-o-pura have some greats songs on them but I can't listen to them all the way through without being bored.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

In defense of ILM, I just read this on another forum:

She Wants Revenge have a unique sound. If you take a sample of Interpol, Depeche Mode, New Order with a dash of the Smiths, you have an idea of what to expect. Between this, Wolf Parade and the new Death Cab For Cutie CD (Plans), I'm in heaven. :)

― Marmot 4-Tay: The root cause of dragon hatred among power metal bands. (marmotwo, Monday, 31 July 2006 17:48 (nineteen years ago)

Add a smidgen of Echo and the Bunnymen and I'm sold.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

Is it possible for an artist widely dismissed by the cognoscenti to suddenly release an album to wide critical/hipster aclaim?

Sure, but only to a limited extent. While artists whose careers have stagnated or been forgotted are constantly being "rediscovered", I can't think of ANY examples of widely reviled artists (such as, say, Insane Clown Posse's Shaggy 2 Dope) suddenly becoming the cool kids' darling. Maybe over time, but not on the basis of one record.

Even if the next Indigo Girls record is truly groundbreaking and spectacular, I can't ever see it becoming hip. And this place seems (I repeat SEEMS) more a like a barometer of perceived coolness than of objective quality.

No offense, by the way. Objective quality is a fantasy -- trendiness at least exists...

― fuckfuckingfuckedfucker (fuckfuckingfuckedfucker), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

Only people who are themselves too concerned about "perceived coolness" make such accusations about others.

Yeah, I mean there are certain groups so distinctly uncool and critically reviled that they'd be beyond rehabiliation. It's not like Darius Rucker's going to make a comeback any time soon. But there are bands who go from being

There are limited examples of bands who were seen as being bandwagon jumpers or

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck. it clicked before i was ready. Anyway, bands like Weezer were completely uncool when they came out and seen as bandwagon jumpers and then went on to critical respectability. Beck too. But they do it quickly. Not after years but within one album.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Monday, 31 July 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

And this place seems (I repeat SEEMS) more a like a barometer of perceived coolness than of objective quality.

there are like two-and-a-half trillion places on the internet more deserving of this half-hearted insult

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

there are certain groups so distinctly uncool and critically reviled that they'd be beyond rehabiliation.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00009LW0Q.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― Marmot 4-Tay: The root cause of dragon hatred among power metal bands. (marmotwo, Monday, 31 July 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

that was produced by Jim O'Rourke

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

anyway, this is the only album of late that I can think of that might fit the bill:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000AL730O.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

whut's that?

― Marmot 4-Tay: The root cause of dragon hatred among power metal bands. (marmotwo, Monday, 31 July 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

the last paul mccartney album. who obviously isn't "inconsequential" but that album made a bunch of top ten lists from people who wrote him off ten albums ago.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yep, nothing says "inconsequential" like Paul McCartney!

xpost: Good point.

― Justin Shumaker (shueytexas), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

did people like the last Neil Diamond album (I never heard it)? I suppose these kinds of career-rehab records are a bit different from the topic of the thread.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

I thought it looked like a Jandek album or something. You think Paul knows who Jandek is?

― Marmot 4-Tay: The root cause of dragon hatred among power metal bands. (marmotwo, Monday, 31 July 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

"Consequentiality" is perhaps overrated (at least if you're going to be slagging teh macca).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

Nick Cave - Murder Ballads

this is the worst Nick Cave album except for Boatman's Call

also, baadertronix otm, this truly is the end

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Jacobo --

Weezer and Beck are good examples. In that indie/not-indie gray area, I definitely think turnaround is possible, especially for artists/bands who were dismissively judged on the basis of one record.

But if you go much below that (Vanilla Ice), I think the bottom kinda falls out...

― fuckfuckingfuckedfucker (fuckfuckingfuckedfucker), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Weezer and Beck are good examples. In that indie/not-indie gray area, I definitely think turnaround is possible, especially for artists/bands who were dismissively judged on the basis of one record.

Huh? weezer aren't in an indie/not-indie gray area. They are not indie, although they are enjoyed by some who also like indie. And the only good thing they ever did (and probably will ever do) was their first two records in the mid-90s. So they would seem to be the opposite of this question.

― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

The first Weezer record was not well received initially. A "Pixies knock-off" on a major label back when that was still considered a source of disdain. They definitely weren't critically respected either until Pinkerton (and even that was delayed).

I think Radiohead might be another example of this too. I remember when Pablo Honey came out and "Creep" was getting some serious "buzz clip" action and I remember people referring to it at the time as "not another whine-y self-pitying 'Gen X' anthem". Who would have thought then that not a half decade later and they'd be considered "the most important band in the world" (or some shit like that). But, again, they made that transition not twelve years later but already by the next album.

― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

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