Zak Sally of Low: On a Mission to Convince Indie Dudes it's Okay to Say Tool is Awesome

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Zak's a totes cool dude.

http://citypages.com/databank/27/1345/article14710.asp

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2469563

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

I'm in awe of my tool daily

― and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

I love Tool *and* Low. Eat that, indie kids!!!!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Low is often heavier than Tool.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

in the past i have thought about everything he says in that article. radiohead, too.

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:34 (nineteen years ago)

you mean it's not OK for indie kids to like tool? did I miss a meeting?

― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

I know a fair number of "indie dudes" who already like Tool. Tool are fucking awesome, and that's the kind of shit you can't hide.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

Really fantastic piece, I have to say. Pretty much nailed a lot of my thoughts on the band (and the weird kissing-cousin relationship they have to Radiohead as well -- if those two ever toured together, man).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

it is NOT a fantastic piece, but there is no arguing with a tool fan. what i don't get is this:

"Radiohead are viewed as torchbearers, while Tool (who behave in the exact same way) are viewed as subliterate kid metal for morons. Huh?"

who thinks this? i thought the whole thing about tool was that they were "smarter" than your average subliterate metal band. and that they were cool to like even if you hate metal.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

paging jess harvell...

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

for what it's worth, i know a lot of people that think tool is for guitar center meatheads.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

Same here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

guitar center fans may overrate tool's technical brilliance, but i don't think non-fans think tool are sub-literate idiots. or even music snobs. they have lots of music snob fans! like ned!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

Hooray!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

guitar center meatheads get a bad rap anyway! maybe.

I've been trying to work out something about the politics of band tshirts, how that's different from the ok/not ok to like politics. I don't know what to say other than that I'd rather wear a Tool tshirt than a Radiohead tshirt.

― geoff (gcannon), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

Tool doesn't even really have guitar solos.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

there's a lot of taxonomy of indie dudes that factors in here.

like an indie dude who would like tool wouldn't like the decemberists, but he would like low. he would be maybe excited about the new mastodon album and have a reign in blood and.

an indie dude who didn't like tool would like the decemberists, and would like low, but he wouldn't like mastodon or slayer (and probably never went through a hardcore phase).

they might both like, say, pavement and jawbox and bonnie prince billy. the metal friendly indie dude would probably like thin lizzy and comets on fire too. but the other guy wouldn't, he would like sufjan stevens.

this all makes perfect sense to me, but it probably reads like complete gibberish.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

i think the nu-metal tool fans are maybe the real problem here that necessitated this article

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

jah that doesn't help. all nu-metal dudes look to tool as visionaries. (and fuck if they ain't compared to that lot). i think that left indie dudes with a bad taste in their mouth. i always think of tool as radiohead+king crimson+the wall, with all the good and bad that that entails.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

also: the deftones get a lot of indie love, even though they were more explicitly lumped in w/nu-metal than tool was/is.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

Matt, I think you should expand your ideas into a giant flowchart.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

i don't get the deftones love from indie circles at all. most of it that i've seen comes from people in the uk though, I think.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

i always think of NIN as the true nu-metal pioneer. and by extension, Ministry(and Helmet. and Faith No More.).

all i know is, Tool have been held up as saviours in lots of those *Metal-It's Not Just For Your Demented Idiot Brother Who Has To Wear A Football Helmet Anymore* articles over the years.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

lots of cool people like the deftones. but, yeah, maybe not indie people.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

I kinda thought the stereotype of Tool was more that it was metal for smart dudes who use computers too much and don't talk to girls.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

Uh...

Hey, what's everyone looking at me for, I have a wife!

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

i'm actually tempted to buy the new tool vinyl. looks cool. i might leave it sealed though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

i think i dislike these earnest defenses of Tool for a reason similar to mr seward's (like, "IT'S OK TO LIKE *THIS* METAL, IT'S *SMART*)... but i also have the most experience with tool fans who fit the stereotype hurting just used... and i hate the decemberists...

but mostly i'm still wtf-ing over the cbs evening news segment. it's like leslie stahl introducing tad kubler to explain thin lizzy.

― a|ex (Pareene), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

love the deftones.

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

i always think of NIN as the true nu-metal pioneer. and by extension, Ministry(and Helmet. and Faith No More.).

Sounds about right.

Hey, what's everyone looking at me for, I have a wife!

We know, we saw the paperwork and your stern dad.

but mostly i'm still wtf-ing over the cbs evening news segment.

I hadn't actually clicked on that yet. As in actual early evening main broadcast? Crazy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

Oh fuck, it's really funny. He's clearly laughing inside, especially when he says "I'm a cartoonist and a music expert."

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

i was defending tool at the indiest place in the universe MONTHS AGO. dude needs to get off my jock.

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

the new album still sucks tho.

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

and ned if you start some "fie on you" b.s. yr gettin a timeout

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

And while I read this my coworker walked by with his 10000 Days tour shirt on.

(No 'fies' were said in the course of this post.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

wait, dude made a radiohead comparison too?? i call bullshit!!

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

first carimanica rips me off in the friggin times of all places and now this!

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

System of a Down was kind of an indie dude secret handshake for a while, I thought. Since they've failed to deliver anything as good as the song Toxicity, I imagine a lot have lost interest.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

formerly of low, i thought. ;_;

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

yeah i think he's done for good.

the last time i saw low the bassist for retribution gospel choir was on bass. it was good though.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

I would like Tool if not for some of the more 90s alt rock kind of inflections they have, namely in the vocals.

― Period period period (Period period period), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

see, only if you have played in low for 50 years does this part make sense:

"They rock like hell. And if you cannot enjoy the simple, joyous act of rocking like hell, you will not like them. But this is a band that moves by its own lights, and whether or not you care to rock with them probably won't make a damn bit of difference. It hasn't so far. A lot of bands sound like Tool these days, but nobody sounds more like Tool than they do."

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

Tool is completely a metal band ... they get embraced by indie kids I think two reasons: 1. the lack of guitar solos, as some else said here. To indie schmucks, it's better to crunch than to show off and 2. the album art is charmingly fucked up -- much like the indie kids themselves.

I like 'em becuase they rock like motherfuckers and write better songs than 90% of the bands out there.

FWIW, you're gonna see Mastodon get embraced in much the same way by the mainstream.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 21 September 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

"won't make a damn bit of difference" how? To whom?They sound more like themselves than all the other bands that sound like them? I'd hope so. He has a point about unconventional marketing,packaging and comparing those to Zep's, and about the unified effect in their songs, but he just says the songs "work," without giving any examples, any description.

― don (dow), Thursday, 21 September 2006 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure Danny Carey is like Neil Peart to high school drummers these days.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 21 September 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

"but he just says the songs "work," without giving any examples, any description."

i don't think it's supposed to be good writing. i think it's just supposed to be some guy who used to be in low talking about how he likes tool.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

we should be thankful for small favors. they could have gotten the drummer from low to write it. hahahahahaha! (cuz drummers are supposed to be even dumber than bass players! hahahahahaha!)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

hegelson otm

― marc h. (marc h.), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

Or the drummer from Gay Dad!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

grr

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:38 (nineteen years ago)

That article basically could not be more wrong about why I don't like Tool.

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

So why don't you like 'em?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

drummer uses zildjian cymbals, bernard's a paiste man all the way

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

lol matt, you're just pandering to brent di crescenzo's crappy (but kinda funny) lateralus 'review'... ;-)

― Space Gourmand (Haberdager), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

grrr

― davina q (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

louis, i've not seen that particular review, but thanks.

i'm outta this thread before jess completes his transformation into dmx.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

Hey, we're talking about the definitive DiCrescenzo grotesquely-self-indulgent creative-writing-substitute-for-actual-review flameout here, Matt! For better or for worse, Pitchfork no longer produce these monstrosities (ahh, nostalgia).

(To qualify, I'm now a Tool fan, but my 15 year-old brain found the review amusing. My mirth nowadays is directed at it rather than with it.)

― Space Gourmand (Haberdager), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

Goddamn it must be physically impossible to write a decent Tool review, positive or negative.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

This piece of shit was in the City Pages AND the Village Voice. roffle.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

Two of the first three paragraphs are one sentence long.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry, three of the first four.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

Here's another idea: write a song that features the words "fuck" and "shit" no less than 20 times over the course of six and a half minutes. Now release the profanity-filled track as the single from your new record ("Aenima", from the record of the same name). Yet that song became ubiquitous on commercial radio. How? I have no earthly idea.

Snoop could do it in four!

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

Now, I ain't saying that Tool is the Led Zeppelin of the oughties. Nobody is Led Zeppelin, that's for sure. They were a great band.
But.

Nobody is Tool, right now, and in my humble opinion, that's for sure as well.

How is this not an Amazon user comment?

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

His prose style owes a GREAT debt to Chuck Klosterman:

"Tool's first record came out in those heady days of the early '90s. (By the way, all dates and figures in this article are both 1) made up and 2) totally accurate.)"

Actually, his whole longwinded-argument-based-on-extremely-shaky-premise/assertion smacks of Klosterman, too.

― Ventor (Alvaro Espinoza), Thursday, 21 September 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

Tool's music = head smashingly good.
I blame a lot of hatred they recieve on the hideous lyrics. And the artwork/videos/interviews, basically everything else besides the actual music is horrendous.

Especially the artwork. Man, oh man, is it bad.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

And they didn't exactly fall off, but I'm still bitter about them turning into A Perfect Circle v 2.0.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

"Tool! You'll like them! Or not! And in that case, nuts to you!"

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like them but i have adult ADD I think.

― William Ryan Stuart Hamilton (Stagger Lee), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

They just keep making sounds that I don't want to hear.

― William Ryan Stuart Hamilton (Stagger Lee), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

System of a Down was kind of an indie dude secret handshake for a while, I thought. Since they've failed to deliver anything as good as the song Toxicity, I imagine a lot have lost interest.

Mesmerize is a fucking great album! I'm listening to it now.

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

er, Mez

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:07 (nineteen years ago)

the new album still sucks tho.

Agreed. And I love Tool.

― Jonathan Pierce (studentism), Friday, 22 September 2006 03:20 (nineteen years ago)

"They just keep making sounds that I don't want to hear."
OTMFM

― edde (edde), Friday, 22 September 2006 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

Tool's music = head smashingly good.
I blame a lot of hatred they recieve on the hideous lyrics. And the artwork/videos/interviews, basically everything else besides the actual music is horrendous.
Especially the artwork. Man, oh man, is it bad.

-- Squirrel_Police (goblinatri...), September 21st, 2006.

Just replace the first sentence with

They just keep making sounds that I don't want to hear.
-- William Ryan Stuart Hamilton (wrshamilto...), September 21st, 2006.

and that's pretty much how I feel. I think "The basic Tool sound consists of complicated, semi-metallic guitar; an uber-complex rhythm section; and a million parts and time signatures" is an accurate description, but it's completely at odds with "They rock like hell. And if you cannot enjoy the simple, joyous act of rocking like hell, you will not like them." I don't think they're stupid meathead rock or whatever the straw-man-wielding straw man is; I
wish they were dumber!

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 22 September 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

True! Butt "it's so complicated!" x "if you cannot enjoy etc." is such classic, ancient overheard-in-the-record-store whine that maybe it's a satire, I hope. In any case, COME BACK AMY PHILLIPS ALL IS FORGIVEN!

― don (dow), Friday, 22 September 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

oh who the fuck cares about the village voice, 'omg i can't believe this article appeared in it'. jesus christ, the whole thing's just a blog now anyway, what did you expect?

― gear (gear), Friday, 22 September 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

how much does the average tool song/album sound like A Perfect Circle's "Judith"?

― milo z (mlp), Friday, 22 September 2006 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

i almost wore my old tool shirt today

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

low dude otfm. scroo ze hataz

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

i think indie snobs and nu-metal meatheads need to be locked in capsule and shot into space. let us other music fans have fun.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

i don't feel like i wrote that previous post.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

i feel an archon has devoured my etheric aura

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

weed?

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

yes, thanks.

― don (dow), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

OR-
"i think tool-heads and nu-metal meatheads AND indie snobs need to be locked in capsule and shot into space. let us other music fans have fun."

that looks better.
Tool+Radiohead are SO flipsides of the same coin, as stated above.
but, that said, i'll still take Knives Out over almost any tool song

― edde (edde), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

I'll take girls out (just as soon as I get off the internets)!

― don (dow), Friday, 22 September 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

i think indie snobs and nu-metal meatheads need to be locked in capsule and shot into space. let us other music fans have fun.

Other = indie meatheads and nu-metal snobs = Tool fans.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 22 September 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

i saw tool live once and they made me fall asleep. not sure if this means i like them or not.

― Fetchboy (Felcher), Friday, 22 September 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

i just wanted to take a moment to say that i don't actually think carimanica ripped me off. jokes, son. (hopefully he can now shake the sand from his vagina.)

on the other hand, sally's gotta die.

― boo berry (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

"like an indie dude who would like tool wouldn't like the decemberists, but he would like low. he would be maybe excited about the new mastodon album and have a reign in blood and."

And? Justice for All?

(Yeah, I guess I'm the first kind of indie guy, though I kinda gave up on Tool a while ago. They're just not weird enough for me anymore, but being into them got me into so many other things that I don't regret owning a fairly significant chunk of their catalog).

― js (honestengine), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

eighteen years pass...

i just read that Zak Sally piece and maybe it's just the daily saturation but i think my brain started thinking it was reading another "this is why people vote for trump" article

anyway, i was originally looking for a Tool thread to post this in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Hrj5QrVaQ

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 13 November 2024 06:05 (one year ago)

I always assumed Maynard was the tool.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 November 2024 13:50 (one year ago)

TOOL’IN AROUND FLAVOR TOWN

― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 13 November 2024 14:12 (one year ago)

it's so creepy how a head just appears at 2:15

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 13 November 2024 14:58 (one year ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.