What makes disco "Euro-disco"?

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What turns ordinary disco into "Euro-disco"? It would make perfect sense if I only heard this label being applied to music from Europe, but I've heard it applied to music by Americans as well, which implies that the distinction is stylistic as much as geographical. Is it the use of synthesizers? Elimination of the Philly soul and funk roots? Pure cheese value? Can someone more knowledgeable about disco explain?

― Rodney doesn't like polka. He is racist. (R. J. Greene), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

to me, it usually means most of the soulful nature has been removed. often synthesizers are involved and the beat is usually free of any syncopation.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't it just a reaction to people calling all European Disco Italo? But yeah, Euro (and sometimes Canadian) music that followed the lead of Moroder about 5 years after the fact.

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. All the clues are there mann! (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't it just a reaction to people calling all European Disco Italo?

It's not--the label came up before the Italo one. Eurodisco is basically what Stirmonster says: Moroder and co. are the template. (And the thing itself: Moroder's productions were ur-Eurodisco.)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

Mesh shirts.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

I sorta break it down like this in my head (I'm sure it can be split a thousand times more though)

Philly Soul & Loft playlists = proto-Disco (early to mid 70's)

Prelude, West End, TK, et al = Disco proper (mid 70's to mid 80's)

Moroder, Patrick Cowley, much of Gino Soccio, etc. = Space or Computer Disco (77 - about 79)

Much of Claudio Simonetti, Bobby O, etc. = Italo/Euro/HiNRG (82-god knows when as it kinda merged with pop chart euro dance of all types)

This is a rough sketch at best though.

xx-post

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. All the clues are there mann! (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

Stirmonster's answer is kind of what I suspected. Thanks.

― Rodney doesn't like polka. He is racist. (R. J. Greene), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:27 (nineteen years ago)

1. Long songs
2. Concept albums
3. literary references
4. synthesizers
5. epic strings
6. animal noises
7. this guy:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000005AKU.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
8. nonsensical lyrics
9. bad accents
10. arpeggiating synthesizers

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

Euro-disco = Pino d'Angio - Ma quale idea (which I kinda like) ?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

i always think of euro disco as being something quite distinct from italo and hi nrg and not necessarily european.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

"9. bad accents"

I can imagine: but are they terrible as Mick Jagger singing in Italian?

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Peter Shapiro's book on disco has a really good section on this.

Basically,

Latin music--- ---Eurodisco
>Early disco---<
Dancible RNB-- ---Commerical disco

Basically, Latin music and rnb mutated into disco, and then disco was mixed with a European musical sensibility and Euro session musicians. It isn't as funky because the writers and players were not blacks, puerto ricans, and white american dudes raised on black music.

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

btw ilm formating messed up my little disco flow chart.

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

eh, that sort of begs the question as to what they were raised on

― HUNTA-V (vahid), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:34 (nineteen years ago)

SCHLAGER!!!

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.317x.com/albums/h/heino/enlargement.jpg

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

i think stirmonster is generalizing a lot in 1st post about lack of soulful nature and syncopation.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

That Shapiro piece is rather on point. He and I have crossed paths while both researching for our projects due to TK Records.

Not that I feel "From Mambo to Hip-Hop" was anywhere near perfect, but it certainly gives you a bit of the climate on how Mambo and Salsa co-existed and influenced NYC area R&B.

And Maestro, a documentary most hated, does give you a sense of who was dancing at the Loft, which was very mixed racially.

xx-post

(I tend to kinda agree w/ stirmonster in a vague way, but it is kinda snooty to claim at the same time)

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. All the clues are there mann! (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

When you crank the sound up loudly enough, you can hear that the accented vocals were sung through a large moustache.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

i'm going to take a wild stab here and say that they probably could have been as funky as white dudes raised on black music - or hell, even black or latin dudes - but they decided not to be since they wanted to market their music to a schlager-listening audience.

― HUNTA-V (vahid), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

i think i was generalising a lot too but that was a BASIC definition of euro-disco. of course a lot of it was soulful but (again generalising) i think euro-disco was more aimed at a whiter, perhaps less sophisticated audience.

x post

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

Kano to thread

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. All the clues are there mann! (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

I had this debate once with someone who was always obsessing over the concept of "deep" and "funky" and "soulful", read as "black". Perhaps an objective scientific test can be made that shows proper funkiness actually generates a specific visceral reaction in most humans, called "getting down", but what I was really concerned with, or at least, wanted to express to him, was that for some people, perhaps people raised in the midst of modern technology, raised on Kraftwerk even, that the mechanical nature, the sound of quantized arpeggiating 8th notes, the lovely tone of a sine-wave, may just create a more emotional response in someone like me then some proper funky dance music. That's not to say I'm immune to the funk, I love the funk, and that's not to say the best can accomplish both at the same time, but sometimes you just want that latter, sometimes it's that lack of "funk" that makes me relate to it.

maybe it's just because I'm white though.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

Black people danced the robot for how long?

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. All the clues are there mann! (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

stop being all pauledwardwagerman and shooting holes in my theory by asking questions you already know the answer to!

No, seriously, the point being perhaps that it obviously isn't about race but context, black kids doing the robot are probably the same who like the Kano and the Paul Hardcastle. But those are funky records anyway.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

I would say Euro-disco is closer to the synth pop end of the disco spectrum with soul & funk on the opposite end. While some Italo could be placed in the exact center, Euro-disco is stuck much closer to synth pop, electro end. In Europe, a Euro-disco tune would be considered simply a pop tune or disco tune. American acts today that claim to be doing a Euro-disco sound, would technically be playing post-Euro-disco. Due to the overlapping nature of these terms, it's likely that they could just say Hi-NRG and play the same music but that's not as cheeky, mysterious, and self-promoting as claiming to do the Euro-disco sound. Although, IMO Hi-NRG is much "cool"er but that isn't the consensus-- yet.

― lukeeluke (soulex45), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

anyway, in the immortal words of Funky Family....

FUNKY IS ON

But I do think you're a bit wrong there Luke...Italo-disco as it's been come to known, is either MORE closely related to the Electro spectrum (the mixed up at the hague stuff, drum machine stuff) or 80s pop (baltimora, fun fun, dolce vita etc)

Classic euro-disco is very much like disco, live instruments, soulful vocals(trying at least), strings, drums etc.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

euro-disco million sellers -

'i feel love'
'funky town'
'knock on wood'

i love hi-nrg but i pray it never becomes 'cool'. that pretty much goes against the entire point of the music.

x post

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

ah, once again we lock horns. Stirmonster is going to be so pissed off when I unleash my post-punk faux-latin mix and make Blue Rondo A La Turk hip and follow it up with my Danergy mix!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha!

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

SO IST DAS NUNMAL?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

i'm the last person to complain about genre discussions (i think they're fun) but i do think it's definitely important not to then pretend that the genre division we come up with have anything to do with the actual players

synth-pop make lie on the extreme opposite end from soulful disco on some continuum we make in our heads but i'm sure with five minutes research we could easily find soulful disco sessioners who joined synth-pop groups and vice versa.

and same with electro vs funk / disco / soul and so on and so forth

― HUNTA-V (vahid), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

dan selzer's 1-10 OTM.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.discomuseum.com/Ferrara.jpg
http://blog.tilos.hu/diszkovagas/Don_Ray.jpg
http://www.discomuseum.com/Kongas_africanism200.jpg

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.hotgroovyrecords.it/images/vivienveegiveme.JPG
http://www.goblin.org/pics/vivienvee1.gif

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

http://perso.orange.fr/zuzudisco/martin/martin/disco.jpg

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2738/r7063111150040851tl4.jpg

― Görl I'll house you (flezaffe), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/doci/dan/dance_department-1147029760_i_9405_full.jpg

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:12 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.doorfromhell.com/thelair/blogimages/apachepic.jpg
http://video.download.com/i/dl/vdl/media/image/32/19/1932_320x240.jpg

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/117/r3335531117606948ol3.jpg

― King Kobra! Male! Female! (flezaffe), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

oh god, that apache video!

― PappaWheelie puts out again and gives up again and puts out again and gives (Pap, Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

I stand corrected, Dan. I have been thinking that when Italo was intially boiling over-- Euro-disco splintered off as other people hearing the sound ran with it? But were the two instead pressing tunes parallel to each other?

I could gain some clarity on this issue with a ven diagram listing the tunes that fit in both catergories and others that are strictly one or the other. It's just pointless tedium though.

― lukeeluke (soulex45), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

Euro-disco pre-dates italo. Moroder's influence was huge and immediate, in 78 or so you had producers all over europe already working that sound, everything from Cerrone to Black Devil to Malavasi and Simonetti. The term Eurodisco was in use years before the term italo disco. Some of this stuff would later be considered the birth of italo-disco for sure, but italo makes more sense when you move into the 80s and a stronger New Wave and electro-funk influence comes in. Thats when you get all that great stuff from 82 or so, your Spacer Woman, your IC Love Affair, your Mr. Flagio and Penguin's Invasion etc. To me, that's what I think of when I think of italo-disco. By the mid 80s though it got really pop, and now you have legions of eastern european dudes who consider pretty boring electronic pop from the late 80s to be the true italo, the true euro-disco.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

a lot of people still think BlackBox = Italo

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

italo-house ? italo-disco

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

oh yeah, /= is what I meant. i.e. doesn't equal.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

Dan, by your logic, is Space Disco/Computer Disco synonomous with Euro-Disco? It seems that's the picture you're painting.

― PappaWheelie puts out again and gives up again and puts out again and gives (Pap, Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

(my logic was Italo Disco means Disco from Italy, but since that sound isn't exclusive to Italy, then Euro becomes the replacement term -- which doesn't take into account that which shares the sound but doesn't come from Europe...)

― PappaWheelie puts out again and gives up again and puts out again and gives (Pap, Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:36 (nineteen years ago)

space disco/computer disco isn't synonymous with euro-disco.

to me/for me:

All space disco is euro disco, but not all euro-disco is space disco. There is euro disco that isn't very synthy or space related, think Kongas, Macho, Disco Circus etc, all are euro-disco. So space-disco has to have actual space content, sonically AND thematically. Space, Conquest of Space, maybe some stuff where you don't know exactly what they're talking about.

Computer Disco is a term I've never heard before.

Most italo fans have always accepted that italo is as much an aesthethic, thus all that french canadian goodness like Gino Soccio or Pluton and the Humanoids are often lumped in with italo-disco.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

Computer Disco

http://www.discog.info/moroder-computerdisco.html

I get where you're coming from, although I've ran into too many other ways of thinking to swallow your perspective wholesale.

― PappaWheelie puts out again and gives up again and puts out again and gives (Pap, Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

And then there's the question where Laserdance and those other tom and snare roll-obsessed producers fit in.

― Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

I get where you're coming from, although I've ran into too many other ways of thinking to swallow your perspective wholesale.

well, that's why I always preface what I say with "to me". Of course, I think I'm right, unfortunately there's no standards institute.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

But...that "Apache" video!!

― Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Thursday, 28 September 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

Tommy Seebach's "Bubble Sex" is lately having something of a revival.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 18:47 (nineteen years ago)

xxypost: Funky Town was by a bunch of Minnesoteans!

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Thursday, 28 September 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

a bunch of euro-disco making minnesotans!

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

minnesoteans even.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

WTF Funky Town is nothing like Euro disco

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

it is exactly what i think of when i think of euro-disco.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

glad we sorted this out

― PappaWheelie burried Paul. The clues are there man! (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 29 September 2006 02:00 (nineteen years ago)

holy shit! are we really cutting hairs over this shit? who gives a shit! the one truth is that 90% of Euro disco sucks, and about 80% of Italo sucks. how many shitty disco records are in the used bins? A LOT!!!

all the good ones are here:

vivaitalians.blogspot.com

― that guy (trblmn), Friday, 29 September 2006 03:59 (nineteen years ago)

btw:
by "cutting hairs" i meant "splitting hairs". me not smart too good.

― that guy (trblmn), Friday, 29 September 2006 04:00 (nineteen years ago)

Dan, could you do a Rough Guide to Euro-disco? Like to Italo-disco one you did some time ago?

― willem -- (willem), Friday, 29 September 2006 06:23 (nineteen years ago)

'Tarzan Boy' sticks out a lot there! is there anything else on that tracklist much like it?

likewise 'Funky Town' and 'Ma Quale Idea' are so different it's funny they end up with the same label.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 29 September 2006 09:04 (nineteen years ago)

I love it when it gets all scholarly round here! Especially when it's about Euro-disco.

Anyway, Peter Shapiro on the roots of Eurodisco on WFMU:

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/12195

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 29 September 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know if I'd totally stand by that italo-list these days.

I remember that Peter Shapiro show, listened to it live. As a Four Seasons fanatatic was blown away by Timebox's Beggin'. I think it was very much about white european acts trying to sound "black". Brings to mind Two Man Sound. But I definately like spacier stuff.

Now excuse me, time for a hair cut. Check out http://vivaitalians.blogspot.com/ there's a great post on Renegade Soundwave.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 29 September 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

Minimal synth or euro disco? You tell me. Ruth, "Polaroid/Roman/Photo"

http://www.ilitchmusic.com/05sons/ruth/polaroid.mp3

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300033690740&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

― MC (mayrock), Sunday, 1 October 2006 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

minimal synth disco.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Sunday, 1 October 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

of which the instrumental mix is even more magnificent.

― willem -- (willem), Sunday, 1 October 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

PARSE PARSE PARSE

Dan Selzer pwned this thread within his first couple posts.

― trees (treesessplode), Sunday, 1 October 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

also, we must pressure the vivaitalans blog to post audio

― trees (treesessplode), Sunday, 1 October 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

I never even considered Ruth's Polaroid Disco in any sense.

I've always thought of Les Garçons, Elli et Jacno, Lio, Mathematiques Modernes, Polyphonic Size, Ruth, etc. as their own lineage of Synth Pop/New Wave.

― The PappaWheelie Story: Half Brain, Half Soul, All Mouth (on sale now) (PappaWhe, Sunday, 1 October 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

but posting audio is illegal!

PW is right, this stuff is all...call it what you want, minimal synth, coldwave, french new wave, whatever. While you can dance to it, calling it euro-disco is just plain confusing.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 1 October 2006 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

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