because vs. sun king

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battle of the pretty vocal harmonies.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

"because", because of the 9-part harmony. But I do like the Sun King as it's highly underrated. I tell you what's shit though - Mean Mr Mustard and Polythene Pam - as if those weren't knocked up in 15 minutes to fill the fucker out.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha. mmm and pp aren't each 3 minutes long.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

sorry, meant to write "i'm glad mmm and pp aren't each 3 minutes long"

made a meal of that one

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

"Mean Mr Mustard lives in the park, shaves in the dark trying to save paper...Such a mean old man" - what the fuck? First of all, man's a tramp - how can he be mean if he's got nothing to be mean with?? How does shaving in the dark save paper? Maybe he shaves by firelight? Can't he do it in the day? Fuck's sake Beatles - you're singing about not being given any money one minute and then you're calling this poor homeless a dirty meanie!

"You should see Polythene Pam/She's so good looking but she looks like a man" - Okay, so you're in love with a cross dressing mannequin.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

I like both of these songs (and also like mmm and pp) -- tho worth noting that Because isn't actually 9-part harmony, it's just three parts, where the voices are overdubbed three times for each part.

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

eh?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

I have You Fail Me and have heard Jane Doe. The former sounds completely different every time I hear it.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

in fairness to mmm and pp, they're fun, rollicking numbers that are easy to digest due to their brevity.

you fail me has some of the most inhuman vocals i've ever heard. jake's sure in a lot of pain on 'eagles become vultures' for instance.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

ah, sorry about the converge. wrong thread disease.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

don't be sorry about the pun though!

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

what pun?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

Because and Sun King seem to be the only Side 2 Lennon tracks that Lennon gave more than a shit about. He hated Paul's idea of doing a medley as one side... also these songs were written during the white album era at the latest, so naturally John said "fuck it" and gave them up to the medley he detested.

I'm going with "Sun King". "Because" is great, but it's essentially a straight homage to the Beach Boys' late 60s.. nothing wrong with that. "Sun King" does something a bit more unique with its dreaminess, though. The bass and guitar lines make the difference. The singing in Spanish as well. So so nice she is. "Sun King" is my favorite Side 2 Abbey Road track.

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

woops,

also these songs were written during the white album era at the latest, so naturally John said "fuck it" and gave them up to the medley he detested.

Was referring to "Mean Mr. Mustard" and "Polythene Pam" here. It got chopped off my orig. answer.

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

Did he really and truly "hate" and "detest" the side two medley? I think people tend to overstate his feelings about Paul's music and ideas.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

"You should see Polythene Pam/She's so good looking but she looks like a man" ?? I thought it was "that" she looked like a man.
As in, this girl was so attractive she reminded this guy of himself (and who wouldn't do themselves).
I think I've been reading waaaay too far into this song.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road_(album)

It is considered one of the Beatles' most tightly constructed albums, although John Lennon dismissed the album in later years[citation needed], possibly because its focal point—"The Long Medley" (which Lennon disliked anyway[citation needed])

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

Because has G, P and J singing, right?

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

"hate" and "detested" are hyperbolic... I do remember reading some interview article with Lennon that would fill the citation in that Wiki entry.

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

What I mean is, Sun King does not, right?

If not, I'm going with "Because".

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

I thought they both did

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

Sun King sounds like just Lennon to me

― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

hmm, that doesn't seem right (or sound right to me either), I can't think any three part harmony Beatle songs where it was just one person doing all the singing -- but unfortunately the Lewisohn sessions book doesn't specify!

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

polythene pam is great, particularly the end which leads in to "she came in through the bathroom window." all the songs on side two contribute something, to my ears.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

I like the ambiguity of the delivery of "Everybody's laughing," so "Sun King" it is.

― R_S (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

Ambiguity because it doesn't sound entirely happy. I'm at work, I'm lazy, I am not thinking very hard.

― R_S (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

he saves money shaving in the dark because he can't see where he cut himself and thus doesn't have to cover up the cuts

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

he's very very mean

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

Re: the confusion about Mr Mustard - as in modern hip-hop terminology, paper = money, as in 'making paper.' See, he shaves in the dark 'cause he's cheap (saves money on the electric bill). Also, in defense of Mean Mr Mustard/Polythene Pam, while they aren't the deepest songs the Beatles ever recorded, they beat the hell out of the majority of the 'pop' end of the Elephant 6 catalog, and they're over in less than 3 minutes put together. Plus, I admit i just mindlessly dig that fuzz bass on 'mustard'.

― Matt Kirkland (Prof Grampy), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

what are the deepest songs the beatles ever recorded?

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

"I Want to Hold Your Hand" offers no bad advice, and is as universally "true" as anything they did

however, Abbey Road is full of songs that don't seem to mean much in particular -- beyond the second side suite, even the "political" song is mostly nonsense

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

(and my stance is that I don't care)

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.8ball.org/_derived/simpson_take_a_stance.htm_cmp_dan110_vbtn.gif

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

blount, how do you sleep?

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

just gimme some truth (or your money, though you've never given it to me in the past)

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

"Because." "Sun King" is 1/3 written with a joke stuck on the end.

"Sun King" was Lennon's last psychedelic song unless you count "#9 Dream."

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000CFQ.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― PappaWheelie: Giving out breaks to the needy since September 25th, 2006 (PappaWh, Wednesday, 11 October 2006 02:23 (nineteen years ago)

Sun King, of course.

― Bassment Jacks (Bimble...), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 02:29 (nineteen years ago)

I tend to disagree, but not a whole lot. "Because" could just be their vocal triumph is what I'm thinking. Are the two in the same key?

― jim wentworth (wench), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 02:49 (nineteen years ago)

Everytime I hear windchimes, I hum "doo doo-doo-DOo DOO, DoO/DoO" so "Sun King" for me.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 03:00 (nineteen years ago)

Because. It's harmonically brilliant, even if it is riffing on Beethoven.

Are the two in the same key?

No, but they do have the same key signature - Sun King is E major and Because is C# minor. And Alan W. Pollack says:

"Sun King" makes an uncanny companion piece for "Because" in the way they share a similar sustained and paradoxically relaxed-while-ecstatic affect. I know very well that the medley begins not with "Because" but rather with "You Never Give Me Your Money"; you don't need to remind me :-) Still, I cannot help responding to the neat ABA symmetry created by the specific sequencing of the three aforementioned tracks.

― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 03:09 (nineteen years ago)

Although the panning cricket sounds on Sun King are excellent.

― Steve Go1dberg (Steve Schneeberg), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 03:10 (nineteen years ago)

Those are tape loops Paul made, btw.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 03:16 (nineteen years ago)

(Oh, maybe not the crickets - I don't know - all the stuff that comes before them coming out of the end of "You Never Give Me Your Money.")

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 03:34 (nineteen years ago)

in fact, the more i listen and think about these tracks ('because' and 'sun king') the more i tend to link them thematically and musically. they have a really similar pacing and feel to them

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 06:25 (nineteen years ago)

In all seriousness, I thought that's why you started this thread.

― cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 06:41 (nineteen years ago)

you're actually 100% right, i just neglected to mention all this explicitly in the opening post

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:33 (nineteen years ago)

He shaves in the dark And he's trying to save paper.

It's not supposed to follow on. Bit like the classic Pete/Dud "Have a sandwich, my feet are killing me"

Also, yes he's a tramp. He's Mean. As in, not very nice.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:41 (nineteen years ago)

Both songs are absolutely terrible but "Because" is actively nauseating so I must plump for "Sun King"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 07:57 (nineteen years ago)

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