Music Editor Out After Okaying Reviews By Ad Staffer

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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/288921_stranger17.html

Matt Carlson (mattsoncarlhew), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

America Loses Innocence

Erroneous Botch (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

RIP MUSIC JOURNALISM YOU WERE MY FAVOURITEST JOURNALISM

Sadly, he will be the next Alexis Petridish. (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

reviewer for an alt paper = employee?

benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

"I can't crawl inside his brain and I don't want to speculate," Savage said Monday.


at first i read this as: "I can't crawl inside his ass with a speculum"

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

Okay Scott, seriously get some sleep or something.

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

that was my dan savage joke. he is a perv.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

Dan vs. Dan.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

If she hadn't used a fake name, would this have been as big a deal?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

This can only distract from Savage's probing journalism and advocacy stuff:

"Bestiality/zoophilia is on my short "No" list, right up there with pedophilia, necrophilia, and coprophilia, much to the consternation of dog-fuckers, kid-fuckers, dead-fuckers, and shit-fuckers everywhere. (I really have a beef with anyone out there fucking dead, shit-covered puppies.) Since my opposition to dog-fucking has long been a matter of public record, DFA, I didn't feel compelled to restate my opposition in my response to NAGS. But, hey, once more for the record: Fucking dogs is bad, mmm-kay? Don't do it.

Urnst Kouch (Urnst Kouch), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

I'm waiting for someone to be busted for writing reviews of fake albums.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

Josh, that could only happen if editors/fact-checkers were really, really fucking lazy.

I made up a fake band or three in college, when we did out annual April Fool's newspaper edition where EVERYTHING was totally fake and everybody knew it. But while we were putting it together my editor looked at me and said "Ray, you don't make up bands to review for regular editions, do you?" At that moment it sort of freaked me out to realize that I could've gotten away with it if I'd really wanted to.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

"if editors/fact-checkers were really, really fucking lazy."

If? Ha ha. What, do you think alt-weeklies are as rigorous as the New Yorker?

(Just kidding, fact checkers, I love you.)

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

there are lots of small newspapers in lots of small towns across the country (and probably around the world) where the publisher is also the editor is also the reporter is also the photographer is also the ad salesman. some of these are very good papers.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

reviewer for an alt paper = employee?
-- benrique (miltonpinsk...), October 18th, 2006.

that made me pee myself a little. not enough for anyone to notice and really not enough for some pervert to get off of, either.

christopherscottknudsen (christopherscottknudsen), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Am I the only one who didn't realize that Savage was the editor of the whole paper, instead of just its most famous columnist?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

Almost almost famous.

J Arthur Rank (Quin Tillian), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)


The music editor mentioned is one of the most decent I've ever freelanced for.

dh (djh), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

Idiotic. I used to work on the corporate-suit side of the Boston Phoenix and wrote for the music/arts section with no apparent problems.

Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

That doesn't speak well for the Boston Phoenix.

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 23:07 (nineteen years ago)

the high standards of music journalism are truly crumbling

gear (gear), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

I still maintain that it depends on the role of the employee in question, a distinction the article itself draws "...when an employee appears to have something to gain by having opinions published."

Yes, publishers are sensitive (if not allergic) to hiring non-editorial staff who have an interest in editorial work. The specific example of an advertising exec writing record reviews is probably exactly the nightmare scenario they have in mind when making such policies. But sometimes writers take shit day jobs, and even more (I'm sure) take shit day jobs in the publishing industry, and the world doesn't explode. The Stranger higher-ups have rightfully chosen to protect their interests by publicly condemning this (admittedly somewhat sketchy) example, but as a broader concept, I don't see it as the end of the world.

I think of a (seriously warped) Chrissie Hynde paraphrase: Get the best writer for the job. If it happens to be the receptionist, great - you've got someone to do their own tear sheets.

Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Thursday, 19 October 2006 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

Its just a shame that a situation like this means the Stranger loses Dave Segal, one of the best writers that paper's ever had. At least his transgression was merely to try and give a newbie writer opportunities to write. Hrd to say whether or not he's a good editor, it seems like the writing in the Stranger was a little better, altho maybe the coverage was a little more narrow, when Jennifer Maerz was there. I always liked reading Segal's column the most though over the past few years.

harvey (harvey1), Thursday, 19 October 2006 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

Yet where oh where is "Music Editor Out After Okaying Repubs Of PR One-Sheets"

hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 19 October 2006 01:55 (nineteen years ago)

when i was an alt-weekly editor i let a dude who worked in classifieds write about jam-band stuff, because he was a fan and nobody else wanted to. i never thought to ask him if he'd tried to sell a help-wanted ad to string cheese incident.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 19 October 2006 02:01 (nineteen years ago)

But if only they'd cleared it first, and having her use a pseudonym looks shady, and duhhh she got the pseudonym's paychecks! Plus, even though she may (well?) have had no hidden agenda, how could the Savage know for sure? Decent enough to republish with a caveat (maybe that could be done when ad staffer's reviews are first published, but still...)

don (dow), Thursday, 19 October 2006 02:55 (nineteen years ago)

yeah the pseudonym thing is dubious. i understand savage's point and he's erring on the right side. but i'm not sure this had to blow up into anything blogworthy.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 19 October 2006 03:01 (nineteen years ago)

Segal does/used to post here occasionally...

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 19 October 2006 06:24 (nineteen years ago)

Hopefully he'll post here again soon.

Whenever something like this happens, it seems, those involved sorta drop off the face of ILX.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 19 October 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

Um, bump?

Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Thursday, 19 October 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

firstly, having known dave for quite a while, i gotta say that this is kinda bullshit. dave's always been a solid writer, editor, and upstanding dude, and i don't think that's changed at all. what's lame is that the stranger--great mag that it is--is being pretty fucking uppity about the dubious conflict of interest. i mean, it's fucking indie rock. there's like 10 of us in this scene! who the fuck do ppl *think* are writing these reviews?! as an editor, i often have ACTUAL PUBLICISTS writing reviews for our mag. sure they're not writing about the artists they rep, but do i--or anyone for that matter--really suspect that they're gonna, i dunno, write a negative review of one artist in the hopes that it translates to someone instead spending their money on one of the publicist's artists? (sorry i know that's kinda a straw man, but...). it strikes me as a mag's top brass (you know how brassy Savage can be..haha) taking itself just a bit too seriously to publicly save face when they know that there's absolutely no harm done. sorry, dave, to hear the bad news. you know you've got this editor's full support.

that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks, Mr. Taylor.

Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:29 (nineteen years ago)

Based on the prose and grammar in one-sheets, Ken, I'd stop letting publicists write reviews just on purely aesthetic grounds.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:46 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco otmfm

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:01 (nineteen years ago)

i mean, it's fucking indie rock. there's like 10 of us in this scene! who the fuck do ppl *think* are writing these reviews?!

this is really dubious logic--there lots of music writers out there who aren't publicists.

as to the situation, it's really too bad--Dave is a good guy, a good writer, and a good editor.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

haha, speaking of grammar: "there are lots . . . "

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

Based on the prose and grammar in one-sheets, Ken, I'd stop letting publicists write reviews just on purely aesthetic grounds.

-- nabisco (--...), October 19th, 2006.

point taken.

i mean, it's fucking indie rock. there's like 10 of us in this scene! who the fuck do ppl *think* are writing these reviews?!

this is really dubious logic--there lots of music writers out there who aren't publicists.

as to the situation, it's really too bad--Dave is a good guy, a good writer, and a good editor.

-- Matos-Webster Dictionary (michaelangelomato...), October 19th, 2006.

sure, there are. that's hardly my point. i'm just saying that it isn't so that crazy for people who are so into indie music to also want to write critically about it and not just carpet-bomb editors with it. i guess coming from both sides, and at times doing both simultaneously, i can certainly understand editors not necessarily taking the hard line against non-professional writers chipping in for the greater good and a free CD every once in a while.


that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

wait, i guess that doesn't prove my point exactly. anywho, what i'm really saying is that it's quite common in a pretty small industry for people to wear all sorts of different hats at once. the fraction of those who are doing it for nefarious, self-serving purposes is generally pretty small and is usually called out pretty quickly.

that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:31 (nineteen years ago)

lemme say "pretty" again

that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:37 (nineteen years ago)

the fraction of those who are doing it for nefarious, self-serving purposes is generally pretty small and is usually called out pretty quickly.

This might have been true back in the mid-'80s, but I'm not so sure it applies to what is now considered indie rock.

QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Thursday, 19 October 2006 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

well, the "nefariousness" here isn't that "ooh, she's a publicist, better stay away"--it's that she was a salesperson writing pseudonymously. whatever anyone's intentions, that looks suspicious.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 20 October 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

yep, you got boned. sorry dave.

Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Friday, 20 October 2006 03:24 (nineteen years ago)

Was she writing about local or national bands/cds? If the latter, what's the conflict of interest (since she was 'club advertising' coordinator, which if the alts I've seen are any indication consists of pasting up the same ugly ads week after week with different band names)?

milo z (mlp), Friday, 20 October 2006 03:35 (nineteen years ago)

Was she writing about local or national bands/cds?

Both. But it was made explicitly clear to her from the outset that writing about clients was forbidden, and she adhered to that guideline, as Savage states in the blog post.

Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Friday, 20 October 2006 04:05 (nineteen years ago)

I too am bummed this happened, Dave. You definitely expanded that music section a lot!

yetimike (McGonigal), Friday, 20 October 2006 09:44 (nineteen years ago)

There should be full disclosure, at least. Speaking of which, where is it that you use so many publicists slash reviewers, Taylor?

don (dow), Friday, 20 October 2006 21:48 (nineteen years ago)

it was made explicitly clear to her from the outset that writing about clients was forbidden, and she adhered to that guideline

was it your idea or hers?

and why do it? (i know, most basic question ever, but if you're answering questions here, this is the one i've wondered about)

jergins (jergins), Friday, 20 October 2006 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

why do it?

We were scrambling to find writers for our new music blog. She has good taste, she can write, and she desperately wanted to break into music journalism (will mysteries never cease?). So I gave her a shot at it. Of course it was a risky decision, but in the rich history of journalistic malfeasance, it seems like a minor indiscretion. As I type this, surely many more heinous conflicts of interest are occurring, maybe even at your own publications. Be careful out there!

Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Friday, 20 October 2006 23:56 (nineteen years ago)

thx dave. i miss data breaker already and hope you don't leave town. also, you were right about the henrik schwarz.

jergins (jergins), Friday, 20 October 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)


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