Wow, what a great song - DOH, and then she started singing!

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How important is vocal quality to the overall quality of a record?

Is it possible for an artist who doesn't have the best voice to put together a terrific album? Let's say a musician has an innovative, beautiful vision, and creates sumptuous sonic textures, but can't sing as well as the next person. Can the work hold its own based on said merits, without showcasing a voice to be reckoned with?

Is Bjork an example of this? Or do we consider her voice veritably "good"? Other examples?

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

I liked Clap Your Hands Say Yeah for about fifteen seconds, until the bellowing kicked in.

― barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

Question seems ridiculous. Countless obvious examples of work out there with mediocre voice over excellent music and vice versa surely.

― ;_; (blueski), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

That's true, there probably are countless examples. But seeing as I'm not too familiar with a LOT of music out there, I thought it'd be interesting to get people's take on it!

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Can you give me a few examples?

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

Also, the question wasn't, is there good music that features mediocre vocals. Surely that question is ridiculous, because we all know, a lot of people can't sing.

Rather, the main question here is HOW important is vocal quality to the enjoyment of a record.

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

i guess the typical example would be Dylan..although the quality of his vocals is highly debated. He's always kind of tarred as the amazing songwriter with sub-par vocal skills, and in my opinion, unfairly. That is a very subjective answer though, obv.

I find that i can sit through a Joanna Newsom song because of the musicianship and the interesting lyrical quality (sometimes i get a strange Gerard Manley Hopkins-esque vibe from her music) although her voice makes me want to climb a clock tower with a long rifle.

― J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha... i was thinking of her. right, dylan... i mean, i guess vocal quality is SO subjective. i guess i mean tone and pitch, you know? and dylan certainly isn't conventional in that sense

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

Richard Thompson...brilliant guitarist but he certainly used to be a bit dodgy as a vocalist, although he got better with time.

― andyjack (andyjack), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

i've heard that half electric half acoustic album. i can see what you mean about his voice. i did kind of like it though - it was oddly soothing or something

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who likes Richard Thompson's singing.

― Jim M (jmcgaw), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

i just said i liked it!!! ;P

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

You might as well retitle this thread "Keyshia Cole - C/D?"

― Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Her songs aren't that great to begin with, even without her caterwauling.

On another note, "House of Jelous Lovers" would be grate without the horrible shreiking.

― Rodney is a group! (R. J. Greene), Friday, 20 October 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

please dont inspire thread "what great singing...DOH such a terrible song!"

― deej.. (deej..), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

"Is it possible for an artist who doesn't have the best voice to put together a terrific album? "

Durutti Column

― vini (brother loves dub), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who likes Richard Thompson's singing.

His voice is fine.

― Diddumsismus (Dada), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

... better than Dave Swarbrick's anyway!

― Diddumsismus (Dada), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

or Neil Young's

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

or Neil Young's

NO NO NO NO NO...but yes.

― J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

Buck 65. Sometimes it works, but sometimes he sounds like Weird Al without the amazing flow.

― A Giant Mechanical Ant (The Giant Mechanical Ant), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

The Dave Matthews Band!! Seriously!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

Talk Talk
Lambchop
Tindersticks

... we've done this before haven't wew?

― Diddumsismus (Dada), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

scott walker
magnetic fields
smog
raincoats

― timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

The Dave Matthews Band!! Seriously!

Smithers: i like the way Snrub thinks!

and i am going to disagree to the utmost about the Smog and Talk Talk suggestions, although i especially see how
Billy C could be grating. But Mark Hollis? I thought he had a generally agreed upon good voice...

― J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

He can't sing to save himself, ruins the whole experience for me

― Diddumsismus (Dada), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

All the simpering on that last Junior Boys album.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

He can't sing to save himself, ruins the whole experience for me

i can't argue with your opinion. i personally enjoy his vocal work, especially 'laughing stock'..

― J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

who is the thom yorke of women

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

Clap Your Hands Say Yeah is right. It's one thing to have your voice break and it's all cute and haha, but when the guy turns into puberty boy on purpose during every single line..

Oh, and I completely disagree, but some people would say Deerhoof.

― Zachary Scott (Zach S), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

I like the potential of this thread. A seemingly unsubtle question actually brings up subtle issues regarding what people consider the juxtaposition of a "great song" with a "bad female singer".

How many of you were ready to jump on posting a suggestion only to realize that you didn't think the song was great.. and then again?... and then again?...

If this were "and then he started singing", then everyone would be posting non-stop for weeks and months.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

see the deerhoolf question really interests me, cuz i feel like no, that's not a voice to showcase but at the same time

i feel like, they KNOW the point of their music isn't to wow with a voice, so they kind of go full force with the opposite

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, one quality of ILX. People love their Yoko, and her tree of influencees, direct or not. Had that not been the case, then "Why?" would have been the first song posted within seconds.

Thank god for Yoko love here.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

or Shaggs love, for that matter

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

i can't believe i've never heard any yoko

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

i can't think of many songs where i'd change the singer. i guess if the arcade fire guy's voice was slightly less puberty cracked i'd like them a little more, but it's not terrible. technically good voices are overrated, anyway.

― gear (gear), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

The only example I can think of is the latest Peaches album, only because the music doesn't outright suck this time, even though the lyrics and vocal delivery still do (even if that's improved very slightly, stressing "very")

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

right, see i do think technically imperfect voices are underrated

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

(..which is to say that Peaches is finally catching up to the Vanity 6 album filler.)

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

These are generalizations, granted.. but women, or bands with frontwomen who get to release well known albums where their voices are not technically perfect are more apt to be in control of making or writing the music to it.. and the not-perfect singing is seen as an positive affect and not as a lack of talent. Guys get away with this slightly less, stressing "slightly"

If "she can't sing, she can't write either" is the negative parallel to this.

Also, "if she can't sing, her producers can't produce anything 'great'" applies as well. Hello, Whitney Houston!

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

Dwelling some more:

~~but women, or bands with frontwomen who get to release well known albums where their voices are not technically perfect are more apt to be in control of making or writing the music to it..~~

Not really true, but the positive affect reaction still applies.

Nico comes to mind here. (I love her voice, but you can tell she's not classicly trained of course.)

And gear otm.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

Although, don't fuck with Cathy Berbarian.

She'd Sequenza III on all of you, and you will plea for death.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

nico's voice is so stirring.

― Ramzi Awn (rra123), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

This recent thread might prove to be a sterling example

― J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Friday, 20 October 2006 17:39 (nineteen years ago)

So the Kim Gordon detractors only come out on Sonic Youth threads?

I like Kim's voice overall, except on one song on Dirty, where she sounds overly aggressively constipated, which kinda ruins the song for me, but that's the only one.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 20 October 2006 23:11 (nineteen years ago)

donna godchaux-era grateful dead comes to mind here.

― arjun (arjun), Saturday, 21 October 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

"wow, what a great song - DOH, and then she started singing"

That is, pretty much verbatim, my reaction to every Bardo Pond song, ever.

― cheshy f cat (cheshycat), Sunday, 22 October 2006 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

this thread gives me hope for the future. can we lock it right now before the douchebags find it?

― martha gives letterman the 'lick' (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 22 October 2006 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

You could say Betty Davis. But I like Betty Davis.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 October 2006 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

I'm tempted to say The New Pornographer, and yeah, there are multiple vocalists, I'm talking about the kind of wierd stringy vocalist, I think it's Neko Case but I'm not sure. I'm just not a fan of it that muh personally.

And I'd like to mention I think Talk Talk would not be nearly as powerful as they are without Mark Hollis singing.

― Thomas Mehlt (Tokyo Ghost Stories), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

this thread gives me hope for the future. can we lock it right now before the douchebags find it?

OTLockingM

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

oh god Kim Gordon ruins every song ever.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

(see?)

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

(actually the songs aren't any good to begin with, b/c it's Sonic Youth)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 October 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

The thread starter is OTM (for me anyway) about Bjork.

― S- (sgh), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 02:48 (nineteen years ago)

Stereolab. though i don't know if I'd go as far as saying the music underneath the awful singing is great.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 03:15 (nineteen years ago)

MASTODON

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 06:15 (nineteen years ago)

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