Taking "A Little Help from My Friends" off of Sgt. Pepper

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Bookmark Removed

Leaves you with:

Side one:
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Getting Better
Fixing a Hole
She's Leaving Home
Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite

Side two:
Within You Without You
When I'm 64
Lovely Rita
Good Morning Good Morning
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
A Day in the Life

Less of the "concept" without the liason from the opening track to "A Little Help." Would a lot of people like it better this way? Would they see at it as being more equivalent to Revolver than they do now? ("She Said She Said" = "Good Morning Good Morning" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" = "A Day in the Life" for John? Paul's eccentricities more tolerable when limited to a few tracks, i.e. "Eleanor Rigby" + "For No One" + "Here, There and Everywhere" not too dissimilar to "Fixing a Hole" + "She's Leaving Home" + "When I'm 64?")

I tend to think that "A Little Help from My Friends" also waters down the sense of the Beatles as a rock band on Sgt. Pepper. If the remaining sense of the Beatles as a rock band on Revolver is part of its appeal for people who, in contrast, dislike Sgt. Pepper, maybe the latter would be seen as more of a rock record not unlike Revolver (w/ the theme song and its reprise, "Getting Better," "Lovely Rita," "Good Morning Good Morning," etc.) without it.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 03:50 (nineteen years ago)

can't polish a turd

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 03:52 (nineteen years ago)

I think the main problem with the album is that it's too much goofy cute stuff - getting rid of With A Little Help From My Friends still leaves Getting Better, Fixing a Hole, She's Leaving Home (ok, not goofy, but sappy and repugnant), Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite, When I'm 64, Lovely Rita and Good Morning Good Morning, most of which are ok but none of which are great, except *maybe* Getting Better. I could tolerate two or three of these songs on an album but together they become nauseating. All this is bookended by a few very good songs, and then there's the odd Within You Without You, which I don't hate as much as most people seem to but don't particularly care for either.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:04 (nineteen years ago)

Personally, I don't think this improves the album - very much the opposite, in fact. I just intended it as more of a rhetorical device in support of an argument I've made in the past about Sgt. Pepper being less musically removed from Revolver than people often seem to say.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

this song is the least of sgt. pepper's problems

― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:35 (nineteen years ago)

If the remaining sense of the Beatles as a rock band on Revolver is part of its appeal for people who, in contrast, dislike Sgt. Pepper...

It's not that the Beatles seem less like a rock band on Sgt. Pepper's that bugs me about it. It's just the lack of outstanding songs. It's a strange thing to criticize a band for not having an album chock full of exceptional songs, as opposed to one full of merely good songs (like Sgt. Pepper's), but that's the Beatles for you. The reason I love Revolver, Abbey Road, and The Beatles more then Sgt. Pepper's is simply that they're full of great songs, where every new song on the playlist provokes a "yes!" reaction. On Sgt. Pepper, I start to get all excited, all the way through Getting Better, and then...Fixing a Hole and She's Leaving Home kill the mood, Mr. Kite gets things rolling things again, then Within You Without You and Good Morning Good Morning just kill it.

Really, like a lot of people I'm sure, the real thrill of listening to Sgt. Pepper's comes almost entirely from the Sgt. Pepper's theme songs, L in the S with D, and A Day in the Life.

Going back to what you originally posted, I'd be opposed to taking A Little Help from my Friends off because it's probably my favorite on the album after those I just mentioned above.

― Zachary Scott (Zach S), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

I like ALHFMF.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

ADITL>>>SPLHCB(R)>>>SPLHCB>>>LSD>>>GB>>>ALHFMF>>>LR>>>BFTBOMK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the rest

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 04:55 (nineteen years ago)

Tim you have to stop listening to and thinking about the Beatles all the damn time

just take a five-year Beatles break, you'll feel so much better

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

I'll never understand the hatred for "Within You Without You" and "Good Morning" as regards the rest of the songs - those are two of my favourites! Really, Side Two is more solid than Side One.

― Monty Von Byonga (Monty Von Byonga), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

DFGDDGJYR>>>RYHERHEH>>>>JYTDT>JGGDG>>DRTJ>>CRJ>F>J>FD>TU>>DGFH>SD>>GL>S>DFGG>>GHGHG
x-post

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

A Little Help From My Friends is a fantastic pop song. Really, the only songs that lag for me from Pepper's are She's Leaving Home, Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite, and (occasionally) Lovely Rita. But even those songs have some great qualities.

As a rhetorical argument, I don't know if the removal of that one song really illuminates the similarities of the two albums. Revolver, after all, still has Yellow Submarine, which is a somewhat similar (if inferior) Ringo tune.

― Nathan P1p (hoyanathan), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 05:15 (nineteen years ago)

i get what tim's saying, tho i adore this song.

once you get past sgt pepper's being overrated once upon a time, it's mostly a lot less overplayed than their other classic albums, and thus a lot more enjoyable than most of them. the only track i don't really like is "lucy," mainly because the clunky chorus spoils the mood entirely.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 05:36 (nineteen years ago)

What's with the innuendo near the end of "A Little Help From My Friends?"

"I can't tell you but I know it's mine"

My mom always made a big deal about that dirty joke but I've never quite understood what it implies exactly. It seems to be just another vague penis reference placed inside a pop song. Can someone help me uncover the innuendo's meaning?

― My Imperfect Cousin (MIC), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:01 (nineteen years ago)

MRMT OTMFM. CKY2K>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CHYSY

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:23 (nineteen years ago)

Just listening to a few tracks now. The criticism Hurting made above is also a common one, I think - a lot of the songs are good-not-great. So many things to like, though: the lead guitar on "Fixing a Hole." "Lovely Rita" has beautiful backing vocals, another fancy sounds-like-George-Martin-playing piano solo, and that vamp at the end (w/ kind of McCoy Tyner-like piano). I also just wonder if the songs suffer in comparison or something? Because "Fixing a Hole" and "Lovely Rita" and "Good Morning, Good Morning" are pretty fucking good songs. I mean, surely the weaker songs on Rubber Soul are weaker than the weaker songs on Sgt. Pepper.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:32 (nineteen years ago)

Weaker songs on Rubber Soul being "Run For Your Life" and what else? Maybe "What Goes On" should go in there as well. Yeah, you're right, those two songs are pretty weak.

The difference between Revolver and Sgt. Peppers' is like that between a comedian who technically told funnier jokes (and more of them) and a comedian who makes his entire set feel like one great joke and also ends on some sort of of moral that leaves you feeling warm and fuzzy at the end. Two different goals, really, and so it's sort of hard to judge them the same way.

― My Imperfect Cousin (MIC), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:38 (nineteen years ago)

Weaker songs on Rubber Soul being "Run For Your Life" and what else?

I don't know - "You Won't See Me," "Think for Yourself," "Wait?" I mean, I like all those songs a lot, but...

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:41 (nineteen years ago)

"think for yourself" is utter classic for the fuzz bass alone, nemmine all the rest of the song which is also utter classic. "the word" is pretty corny, as far as rubber soul goes (so fine/sunshine), but saved by the 3-part harmony.

but anyway, "a little help" is one of my favorite songs on sgt. pepper (after, predictably, sgt. pepper i & ii, day in the life, one or two others). i oppose the motion on the floor. and to whoever asked, i don't think "I can't tell you but I know it's mine" is any kind of dirty joke, it's hippie mystical get-to-know-yourself-brother third-eye stuff.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 07:04 (nineteen years ago)

Tim, seriously...you need to, like, read poetry or start an herb garden or something, anything not directly Beatle-related to give yourself a little perspective 'cuz one the whole you are one frightening mamma-jamma.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 07:59 (nineteen years ago)

(wouldn't it be something if Geir came here and said that as well?)

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 08:10 (nineteen years ago)

"A Little Help ..." is the most redeaming quality of Pepper save "A Day in the Life".

― darin (darin), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 08:25 (nineteen years ago)

On a practical/continuity level, omitting "With A Little Help From My Friends" would make nonsense of the album's introduction.

Also the Beatles were never a rock band, as "Helter Skelter" painfully proved.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

this song is the least of sgt. pepper's problems
-- timmy tannin (timmytanni...), October 31st, 2006.

^^CO-SIGN^^

― benrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

I find When I'm 64 a great deal more annoying than A Little Help. George Martin said one of his biggest regrets was leaving Strawberry Fields off Sgt Pepper. SW would have certainly made it a better album.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

(SF I mean)

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

"Sgt. Pepper" is perfect and "A Little Help From My Friends" is part of the perfection.

No, it isn't a rock album, but then, The Beatles were never a rock band.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

Rather Ringo singing it than either Joe Cocker or Marti Pellow.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:00 (nineteen years ago)

it has a nice airy feel, with the bass. it's one of the best tracks on the LP!

don't know where tim is coming from cos the only rocking track on SPLHCB is the reprise of the title track.

― benrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:04 (nineteen years ago)

Rather Ringo singing it than either Joe Cocker or Marti Pellow.

Marty Pellow did at least retain the original Music Hall feel of the song.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

"Marty" Pellow made it sound like a 1974 Marmalade B-side.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

Sam and Mark got more inside it. Well, they got the lyrics right!

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

Christ, I'd forgotten about Hope and Keen...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

Was that their surnames? That'd have been better than "Sam and Mark" anyhow.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:53 (nineteen years ago)

No, that was

HOPE AND KEEN
Comedy Double Act

the '70s equivalent of

SAM AND MARK
Pop Idol Winners

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

ah OK.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

Call me crazy, but I really really like the Joe Cocker version - maybe it's just because I grew up on The Wonder Years.

Anyway, it's not just that most of the songs are so-so, but that combined I find them depressing - Fixing a Hole and Getting Better come off as the songs of a recovering creep and When I'm Sixty Four and She's Leaving Home sound as empty as Hallmark cards, and Good Morning just has this blah mood to it.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

"Good Morning" is supposed to be a "blah" song. It was mainly about JLen's temporary writers block. "I've got nothing to say but it's OK, Good Morning".

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

Such urgent issues.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

Call me crazy, but I really really like the Joe Cocker version

Not too crazy, considering his version is sort of established in the rock historical "canon" as the superior one.

I disagree though :)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

I'm pretty sick of the title track, which is my least favorite song on this record. And the best thing about "A Little Help" is that it always gets played on the radio after the title track.

― billstevejim (billstevejim), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Much thanks to "Thomas Tallis," Daddino, and Grout for the little personal knocks. I wish I hadn't started the thread.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:34 (nineteen years ago)

ILM is not here to agree with you.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

The logic employed in going from comment about personal knocks to whether I expect people to agree with me about music is stunning.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

There is a looking glass here. Shall I go through it?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

What did I say? nothing personal!

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

just checked...

(wouldn't it be something if Geir came here and said that as well?)
-- mark grout (mark.grou...) (webmail), Today 8:10 AM. (later) (link)

.. is as far as it went. Exp: If Geir had said that as well, you know things are bad. He didn't. So it's not.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

ok, thx

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

Additionally, ILM is not here to entertain you.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Who appointed you Needless Pedant?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 30 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Like *you've* never shit-stirred?

Yeah, not really on a personal level unless maybe someone's angered me but I REALLY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT MYSELF ANYMORE PLZ THANKYOU.

Matthew, no - just snarkiness, some of which gets or at least feels personal.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 22:58 (nineteen years ago)

I think Sgt Peppers is a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Revolver may have better songs (debatable), but it doesn't have that sense that you're entering a whimsical, self-contained world when you drop the needle down on side A.
But for people who consider themselves song-fans more than album-fans, or who have some ideological issues with the "concept album" as such, they might find Revolver more conducive to their aesthetic theories.

-- o. nate (syne_wav...), October 31st, 2006

This is the thing I don't get about Sgt. Pepper's...I don't really get the concept album feel at all. This has been done into the ground, I'm sure, but the whole concept is just Sgt. Pepper's into A Little Help from My Friends, a few unrelated songs, Mr. Kite is a vaudeville sounding song, then more unrelated songs, then a different version of the Sgt. Pepper's theme. The album never really strikes me as a "self-contained" world.

Granted, it has a psychedelic thread running through it, but so do a lot of albums from that period. Magical Mystery Tour has more of a unified, self-contained world sound to it then Sgt. Pepper's does, IMO.

― Zachary Scott (Zach S), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

You've got this happy, upbeat song, and all of a sudden there's a line about "I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved?" (By Paul, no less - someone get Jane Asher's take of this.)

no I think John wrote that line, he sings it, at least.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

that's in the bridge, which John wrote.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:21 (nineteen years ago)

Was going to talk about this on a future blog entry re: "Run For Your Life: the 'Worst' Beatles songs off each album"...

Isn't a concept album just an album made where the songs are meant to be part of a team, and nothing more? This basically means anything that isn't a hodgepodge or best-of is a concept album. The Beatles just reduced the domain of what a "concept" album was, put on funny costumes, and twisted the use of the word "concept album" to help sell the concept (yeah yeah, pun intended), and it worked. I like Sgt. Peppers, but almost any array of music works done by the same musician(s) created since the dawn of neanderthals has been "conceptual".

All traditional classical is not just conceptual, but rigidly formalized.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

Granted, it has a psychedelic thread running through it, but so do a lot of albums from that period.

......Every single one of which is heavily influenced by "Sgt. Pepper".....

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:33 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know why everyone is knocking tim, i never knew he was a beatles fan actually. i know him for bands such as white witch and early period royal trux and latter period r.e.m.

"fixing a hole" is probably my favorite track on the album.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 00:09 (nineteen years ago)

i like teenage waistland

― PappaWheelie, don't fuck this up (PappaWheelie 2), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

"When I'm Sixty Four" is clearly the worst song on this.

I can understand why it was included on the album, as it was the only song of its kind made for it, but it's still dorky as fuck.

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

Who appointed you Needless Pedant?

he was self-appointed yrs ago, check the archives

― am0n (am0n), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 01:24 (nineteen years ago)

"When I'm Sixty Four" is clearly the worst song on this.
It's certainly the most annoying song on the Yellow Submarine 'Songtrack' album, followed closely by "Eleanor Rigby."

― The Redd 47 Ronin (Ken L), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 01:27 (nineteen years ago)

"When I'm Sixty Four" is clearly the worst song on this.

Yet "When I'm Sixty-Four" is one of Sgt. Peppers' most enduring numbers. Funny, that...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

I also hate Eleanor Rigby. HOORAY!

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

i like tim's beatles posts; as over-discussed as they are, he's clearly put a lot of thought into his opinions on them and usually seems quite clear-headed. but hey, he's clearly not in the same intellectual league as some spectacular wordsmith who just posts things like "ilm is not here to agree with you," i mean that's obviously a given.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 05:06 (nineteen years ago)

elenor rigby is pure class. when I'm sixty four is pure hokum.

anyway I think "with a little help from my friends" is one of the album's better songs, actually. I think paul's bass playing really shines on it, and I like the call and response vocals.

I actually like most of the tracks on this album individually but don't really enjoy listening to the album as a whole, now. taken together it's got too much of the "this is SGT PEPPER" thing going on. individually I do find the songs enjoyable. getting better and lovely rita, fixing a hole...all good tracks and they all have a kind of interesting sheen to them.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 07:09 (nineteen years ago)

I also hate Eleanor Rigby. HOORAY!

She has it bad enough already, don't you think?

Lyrics express their disdain for church-going types. You will notice the answer to the question, "All the lonely people, where do they all come from?" is the one thing they all have in common: church.

― Scorpion Tea (Dick Butkus), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 07:30 (nineteen years ago)

The trouble with Ellison is that he commenced this thread on an incorrect premise, viz. that the Beatles were rock or that Pepper was a rock record, as well as, I suspect, an excuse to let out some angst on inadequately specified previous imagined slights.

ILM is not here to make lives easier.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

ILM is here to let you tell us your favourite songs and we won't forget.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

Sgt Pepper is easily my least favourite Beatles recd, but 'A Little Help...' is such a great track.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 09:44 (nineteen years ago)

I'll remember that.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

how are the beatles "not rock"? is elvis not rock either?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 09:49 (nineteen years ago)

The Stones were rock. The Beatles were pop.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, so it's come to that, then.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

as well as, I suspect, an excuse to let out some angst on inadequately specified previous imagined slights

Do you really imagine that? Perhaps you are just being clever. In any case, my starting this thread was an act of faith.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

commenced this thread on an incorrect premise, viz. that the Beatles were rock or that Pepper was a rock record

I believe that was already clarified earlier in the thread, also - call it "pop-rock" or what have you. "When I'm 64," "She's Leaving Home," and "Within You Without You" are the only songs on the record with zero rock element.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

"When I'm 64," "She's Leaving Home," and "Within You Without You" are the only songs on the record with zero rock element.

Just when you think this thread can't get any more Bizarro-ILM...

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 22:39 (nineteen years ago)

Fine, what are the other songs on the album with zero rock element, then, in your opinion?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

I guess the question is, how are you defining "rock elements"?

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not going to go through each song. Since you raised the issue, perhaps you could identify one where you believe there is some question.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

Fine, I'll play, but it's sort of pointless if we're going off of our individual personal closely-guarded secret recipes for rock.

Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite
Lovely Rita

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

The Stones were rock. The Beatles were pop.

*massive fart noise*

― Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:32 (nineteen years ago)

But it would really be more useful if we could determine the rock content of each track by volume, as in "contains 10% real fruit juice."

Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds: 28% rock
Getting Better: 67% rock

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:35 (nineteen years ago)

Well, you are the one who questioned the statement that there was something more than 0% in all the songs except "When I'm 64," "She's Leaving Home," and "Within You Without You."

Anyway, if "Mr. Kite" had an electric rhythm guitar part, surely there would have been no question at all. Ringo plays fairly hard at times. The idea that the song suddenly becomes Not Rock Whatsoever because John Lennon is playing organ instead doesn't make much sense to me. If you're going to say it's not rock, then maybe you should say "Stephanie Knows Who" and the United States of America are not rock either.

"Lovely Rita" is rock if "No Reply" is rock.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:47 (nineteen years ago)

"Good Morning Good Morning" even has the glam stomp beat. (Well, it was the Motown beat before that, and the "Satisfaction" beat. The Move used it a decent amount.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

'lovely rita' chugs along like a proper rock tune

― gear (gear), Thursday, 2 November 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

This thread is really rocky. Really really rocky.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 2 November 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

'lovely rita' chugs along like a proper rock tune

Surely. But so does a lot of music-hall stuff!

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 2 November 2006 00:26 (nineteen years ago)

Would anyone have considered it Music Hall in the least without that piano solo? Otherwise, it sounds like a tune from Help! or Rubber Soul.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 2 November 2006 00:28 (nineteen years ago)

It's rock. It's their "radiohead" album.

― Scorpion Tea (Dick Butkus), Thursday, 2 November 2006 00:35 (nineteen years ago)

In any case, my starting this thread was an act of faith.

We are not discussing the works of George Michael.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 2 November 2006 08:43 (nineteen years ago)

The Stones were rock. The Beatles were pop.

this was lame when i was 15 and it's still lame now.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

"Abbey Road" is a rock album with pop moments.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:18 (nineteen years ago)

Both Abbey Road and the White Album are four solo albums condensed into one (or two, in the case of the latter) with fairly uncontrollable but predictable rockist consequences.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 2 November 2006 11:02 (nineteen years ago)

"Sgt. Pepper" is great all the way through. And it is great precicely because it isn't "rock". There isn't one single track on the album that is "rock". Rather it is a wonderful collection of Vaudeville and Music Hall-influenced tunes that show Brits are able to make wonderful music without any kind of influence from ~~American music.~~ black people

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 2 November 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

And your point is?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 2 November 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

All Americans are black, obv.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 2 November 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

American Music=Country Music

For true black music, ignore whatever African American and listen to some Khaled or Salif Keita instead.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 2 November 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

True black music?

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Thursday, 2 November 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

As opposed to untrue black music, I guess.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 2 November 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

Come on "Do you neeeeed anyboooody?" that part is awesome. The whole middle 8 of With A Little Help is fucking rad and if you squint your ears you can even imagine it done as a Hard Days Night-era rocker.

"Getting Better" has some killer guitar work in it too....dueling, syncopated, often hitting little angular drones and stuff. This is the birth of Tom Verlaine and Television right here.

― Adam Bruneau (oliver8bit), Thursday, 2 November 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

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