The relationship with the artist

bumpe. i know it's a big one.

To me this matters absolutely zilch. The only thing that matters is the music.

UNLESS IT'S MADE BY BLACKS.

God that was OTT. Sorry people.

As a serious response there should be a piece on Stylus today that explodes this topic in a certain direction.

UNLESS IT'S MADE BY BLACKS.

I like a lot of music made by blacks whenever they don't make R&B, funk, blues or hip-hop.

YOU ARE AN ALGORITHIM.

lol... um, well i dunno i feel like it does matter to me to an extent. i mean when something resounds with how i feel, i think it becomes more meaningful to me

i guess i deem it pretty important. to get me to like a song beyond how it literally sounds there has to be a theme or idea in there that i can identify with and agree with a lot, realistically and in practice. otherwise it tends to be 'very nice, appreciate it, but i doubt i'll listen to/enjoy this much personally'.

that doesn't mean the artist has to look like me, be from the same area as me, same background whatever.

I'm a Rush fan, I've read a couple of Neal Peart's books (don't laugh-they're pretty good). This is one of his pet topics. He believes the fan-musician relationship begins and ends with the music, and that he is no better than anyone else, he just "beats things with sticks" for a living. So he is uncomfortable when a fuss is made about him.

i like that new Ludacris single a lot. i don't think it's anything to do with the fact that he's gone for a more 'common oppressed man' character as opposed to playa cariacture. i can't relate to either of these characters so the love is more for the song itself, how it's written, produced and performed. i think it's great on all these counts. so i may be proving myself wrong here re playing up the importance of relativity.

There's a difference between 'a theme or idea' and the artist themselves, though. The former is fairly obviously needed, the latter not. But I think relating to an artist can extend a record's power over you, can heighten the thrill.

I'm a Rush fan, I've read a couple of Neal Peart's books (don't laugh-they're pretty good). This is one of his pet topics. He believes the fan-musician relationship begins and ends with the music, and that he is no better than anyone else, he just "beats things with sticks" for a living. So he is uncomfortable when a fuss is made about him.

I like that approach, and I think it's the healthiest approach too. The problem is the distinction between musicians and celebrities, where the former are people who play music for a living, and the latter are OMG FAMOUS PEOPLE GOLDEN GODS WORSHIP THEM, even if that 'worship' is looking at pictures of their cellulite in Now! or OK! or Wanker! magazine, or whatever.

i think for me it's a question of empathy... i don't need to be able to empathize, and i can LOOOV music without that, but when it kicks in, it feels sooo real, stirring, something.

He believes the fan-musician relationship begins and ends with the music, and that he is no better than anyone else, he just "beats things with sticks" for a living. So he is uncomfortable when a fuss is made about him.

Another vote for not important at all. So much of my favorite music, I don't know shit about the people making it. It's the sound that's important & where it takes you.

Although I'll admit, sometimes knowing too much about the artist can turn me off a bit from the music - for example some of the drippy stuff spouted by certain new york jazzbos kind of makes it harder to hear their music with clean ears.

but doesn't anyone listen to music in search of a voice to represent their own experiences? to channel the plight of the human condition?

to channel the plight of the human condition?

You're such a sensitive fellow. My teeth ache for you.

R Kelly to thread.

lol i know that was uber schmalz, but i do believe that an artist can serve as a sortof agent for the expression of the listener.

I was gonna post some long thing about music and culture and how they're intertwined and you can't seperate them and stuff. But now I just wanna say...nothing. I've lost interest. Actually, no...I do wanna say that relating to the artist can make the music sound way fucking better. Thats why I started reading about music when I was younger. I just needed a way to contextualize it. That's how I've gotten into countless genres. To this day I can listen to music in a vacuum sort of, and it is enjoyable in that way for its own peculiar pleasures, but so much of the joy of music is to relate to people. It is a language, not just entertainment.

I'm on my lunch break and may ramble a bit. Sailor take warning.

I guess I'm one of those who have intense personal-level feelings about all of their musical favorites, but they vary between a kind of empathy/camaraderie feeling and something more like an adversarial/teacherish deal.

Robyn Hitchcock is like a friend, a companion for 23 years, know him like an old glove, forgive (some) faults, enjoy the "comfiness" of certain traits that appear over and over.

Mark E Smith is definitely NOT my friend. At times I dislike him quite a bit. I do not find comfiness in anything Fall other than Hanley's bass. But MES's work was a source of exhilaration and head expansion over and over through the same 23 years.

Tom Verlaine I ruminate over in an almost groupielike way. This is partly a predictable function of his inaccessibility, the fact that he gives so little in terms of musical output, is rarely interviewed and is completely obtuse when he is. The fact that someone whose primary mode is to withholdis also the source of such heart-stabbing music, and Rumi-like lyrical keenness, is hard not to obsess over a bit.

Scott Walker should be similar to TV, except I don't really want to know what he does, where he lives, whether he's a prick. I certainly think of him in an empathic and personal way, intensely so, but only as he's manifest in his work and what he says about his work.

Mark Hollis I try not to think about. He's opted out, maybe for wrongheaded reasons, and I hope he's happy that way.

I won't go into classical composers, but suffice to say my feelings are very similar even though almost all of them are long dead. Clearly my way of thinking about music is a TOTAL FUCKING MESS and there are several important post-modern bulletins I never received.

but doesn't anyone listen to music in search of a voice to represent their own experiences

you're just framing it too strongly. As has been said, i never 'search' for this but when it happens it's kind of cool, sure. most of my favorites i don't relate to at all(they have not only different/better skills but different proclivities as well), which sets up a more intriguing relationship in a way.

yes i actually meant to correct myself and say "when it happens it's great"

i guess i don't actively look for someone to relate to, but when i feel like they are singing about something i've been through, you know, it's overwhelming

but when i feel like they are singing about something i've been through, you know, it's overwhelming
i invest a lot more into 'relationship with the song' with respect to that. I'll never forget hearing some well-worn whitney houston song after i broke up with my first girlfriend and really 'getting it'. She might as well have been singing the words to old macdonald before, I just knew it sounded good. I still fall into seeing words and sentiments in songs as simple conveyances most of the time but stuff does 'speak to me' on occasion. It just doesn't necessarily follow that a dialogue between me and the performer has been achieved.

btw i've been listening to a lot of Frank Sinatra lately that's 'spoken to me' which might be confounding my response (he didn't write the stuff etc.); at his best he has a way of really being in the song and when the subject is relatable it's kind of like he's at least speaking for you if not necessarily with you, if that makes any sense. But again, the picture I have of him as an person is more complicated and doesn't necessarily mesh with what draws me to the song so the rendezvous only really lives in a song here, a song there.

Tremendoid extremely OTM, and putting it very well to boot.

yes the singing for you part i've been thinking about lately. it's like we choose who we want to sing on our behalf