CROOKED RAIN CROOKED POLL

Westing>WZ>S&E>CRCR>BTC>TT

This is right tho I wouldn't call Westing an album per se, and I would put it somewhere between CR and TT

jammy part at the end of "Speak See Remember" is one of the handful of highlights on an otherwise "just OK" album!

oh wait, i misread that as if brimstead was saying that specific part should be destroyed ... i agree that the first 2:50 of "SSR" is blah, but the last 90 seconds of it are one of the few times on TT you actually hear the energy of the first three albums come to the surface.

I've never quite understood why some fans rate Westing so highly... it's a solid EP, they're all good songs, but beyond that...(?)

it's obviously not as good as the first three official albums but it sure is fun to hear the band in its embryonic form, hear SM's earliest/noisiest ideas, hear them at their most DIY, imagine them doing this weird-ass shit at Gary's house, etc. no different than hearing any other great band's early stuff.

but imo if you're inclined to include Westing in an album ranking, you need to strip it back to the individual EPs on their own, which means you also have to consider Watery Domestic.

Oh wait, I'm totally messed up... I mean the EP that came after S&E, what's it called?

(Yeah, Westing is great, but I wouldn't "rank" it among their albums, it's kind of its own thing)

Watery, Domestic is the EP I meant

I always rated TT the lowest but will give it another try with the different sequencing

I love Westing.

8 votes in this poll for "Fillmore Jive"! That's interesting. That's like "the first really bad Pavement song" to my ears, chronologically. I listened to this album on repeat the weekend I got it and I said to my friend, biggest Pavement fan in the world, "the last song on the album sucks so much. They shouldn't let the other guy sing." She said "that's SM singing," and I said it can't be, it sounds nothing like him, and she insisted that it was. I don't like that song. In general this might be my least-favourite Pavement album!

I need to hear the Godrich sequence of Terror Twilight. I need to listen to Sea Change again, too.

it's definitely SM singing Fillmore Jive. are you thinking of "Hit the Plane Down"?

Those Fillmore lyrics are improvised right?

jaspar's skinnr arhms

No, I'm thinking of "Fillmore Jive". I hate it. I don't like the lyric. It doesn't sound like SM singing to me. It sounds like the theme song to Nicole Byer's podcast except not-fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nfL7tMV1bc

MALKMUS: There’s one song on there, called “Heaven Is A Truck,” that was not recorded with Mark [Venezia]. That was recorded at another place. We did a song for No Alternative, which was a compilation benefit for HIV, and we had some extra time, and we did that song there and added it to the album. Also, the intro to “Fillmore Jive” was taken from Gary’s studio. That was something where I was doing a Frogs pastiche and we added that onto the beginning of that. It was really crazy.

KANNBERG: “Fillmore Jive,” that’s actually two songs put together. I think one was actually recorded at Gary’s studio, the very end part. And the beginning part was recorded at Mark’s. And those were kind of put together with Band-Aids. It’s amazing that the record actually sounds good.

https://www.stereogum.com/1629101/the-oral-history-of-pavements-crooked-rain-crooked-rain/interviews/oral-history/

Here's the full recording that the intro of "Fillmore Jive" was snipped from (which happens @1m30s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg_SF4LfMz0

I assume Malk’s memory is correct, and that intro part was recorded at Gary’s?

(i’ve never liked this song much either, fwiw)

whatever still sounds way more ween "don't get 2 close (2 my fantasy)" than the frogs (on your radio 2night!)

If I were to "fix" Side 2 of this album, using roughly contemporaneous songs, it might look something like this:

Gold Soundz
Heaven Is a Truck
Nail Clinic
Hands Off the Bayou
Strings of Nashville
All My Friends

All My Friends would be a great closer

Gold Soundz
Range Life
Raft
Brink of the Clouds
All My Friends

Nail Clinic is one of my all-time favorite Pavement songs.

fillmore jive is the perfect closer, wtf

fgti, do you like the music of neil young?

I assume Malk’s memory is correct, and that intro part was recorded at Gary’s?

Yeah, it's definitely the intro that was a separate song, not the very end. LA's Desert Origins liner notes say "Dark Ages" was recorded was recorded at Random Falls with Mark, but if Malkmus and Scott both think part of "Fillmore Jive" was recorded at Gary's, I'm guessing the liner notes are wrong

Agree that Fillmore Jive is the perfect closer.

Well in those quotes, Scott said "the beginning part" (i.e., the part taken from "Dark Ages") "was recorded at Mark’s" – so maybe he's actually the one remembering correctly(?)

(if both he and the liner notes say that, leaving Steve as the only one who thinks they recorded it at Gary's)

@ voodoo yes ofc, near fanaticism for Neil Young. Fan of Gary-era Pavement too. I need to re listen to the latter Pavement albums, it's been a while

"Dark Ages" was recorded in Linden at Gary's rebuilt studio (Louder Thank You Think mk II). Bryce was able to clean it up and stitch it as the intro to "Fillmore Jive".

xp ah ok, only asked because “fillmore jive” strikes me as extremely crazy horse-y

"fillmore jive" rules and is a perfect closer, feels unusually 'epic' for them. the real dud on this album is "hit the plane down"

watery, domestic is a perfect ep and the best thing they ever released

otm across the board ^

if i had to take one disc to the desert island with me, though, it'd be one of the first three full-lengths

the real dud on this album is "hit the plane down"

otm. although it does make the arrival of fillmore jive even more welcome

Fillmore Jive is wonderful, Hit The Plane Down is OK.

Is controps still a thing around here? I've never really liked Cut Your Hair. Does that count?

watery, domestic is a perfect ep and the best thing they ever released

Frontwards might be SM's greatest achievement.

See, those are the takes I'm talking about! (I respect them, of course, I just don't share them...)

Watery, Domestic is the core, the heart music of Pavement.

Tt has its share of duds but the highs are high enough to counterbalance them. Is thinking carrot rope is one of the best things pavement did a controversial opinion? My head says it's dumb idea, but my heart can't help but love that silly little ditty.

Agree that Filmore Jive is wonderful and Hit The Plane Down is the one to drop

i wouldn't say "carrot rope" is top tier but it's very good, second best on terror twilight after "spit on a stranger"

I don't really get early Pavement. I listen to Westing and Slanted a fair bit hoping they'll click, and, well they're hard to listen to sonically, the songs aren't really there, and I just don't love the music until CRCR much as I'd like to

Carrot Rope is brilliant.
The Hexx is one of the best things they've ever done.
Major Leagues is genuinely affecting.
Folk Jam is superb. You Are A Light is perfect...
There's very little I don't like about Terror Twilight and if there are any low points I rarely notice them because they're nicely hammocked by high quality stuff

man if you don't dig "Box Elder" or "Perfect Depth" or "Debris Slide" idk what to tell ya, I think those are the height of lofi genius and great songs to boot

(I fully accept that this is a place/time thing, I was one degree removed from them in college growing up in Cville)

sorry *post-college in Indiana AFTER growing up in Cville*

Yeah, might be a time/place thing. I get that stuff like Debris Slide and Forklift are fun tunes of course, but it mostly sounds like a garage band jamming around (which I get is the point because, well, that's what it is). I suppose I just find the sound quality hard to enjoy, and nit really what I cone to this band for

Fillmore Jive is incredible, what's wrong with you people

the hiss and noise is my favorite thing about early Pavement!

well, that's what it is

but that's not what it is! these are fully formed songs cloaked under a layer of hiss and treble and evasion