why are these the artists that appeal to cool kids fans what about the cool kids actually reminds you of either the fat boys or the beasties, other than the clothes they are wearing being mid 80s oriented
-- deej, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:46 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link
― deej, Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:36 (fifteen years ago) link
why is this aesthetic so appealing to a 'hipster' audience why do 'hipsters' have such a disproportionate media influence whose interests does defining 'hipsters' as a singular entity with similar aesthetic tastes serve why should we surrender so much of this coverage to people covering this small circle of insular fashionistas
― deej, Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link
why is this aesthetic so appealing to a 'hipster' audience
Then I don't understand why you're befuddled by the fact that they would gravitate towards non-threatening dudes who talk about the nerdy shit that not only compliments their scenester peter pan syndrome but also their blog-reading "otherness" that makes them feel so superior and urbane; as opposed to a copping a ringtone by bunch of Atlanta dudes talking about getting their dick sucked.
-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:26 PM (2 hours ago)
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link
i brought up the beasties-- as other ppl have (i think even the cool kids themselves)-- because they're pretty popular among white rock listeners, as are the cool kids, so even if we couldn't put our finger on the similarities b/w the two groups, the fact that they definitely have audience crossover is reason enough for a link if not a comparison.
but cmon the cool kids are on the teenage bullshit fun times tip just like the beasties were, and to an extent (maybe not teenage tho) like the fat boys were. and it sucks that white rock listeners seem to equate fun times rap with the cool kids and spank rock and not d4l (i think your average cool kids fan would clown "laffy taffy" in anti-pop stance as much as an anti-gutter rap one, which is an issue [anti-pop, or anti-radio success] that we aren't touching when we bring up things like dem franchize boys) or gucci mane, but whiney brought this up earlier, it seems as if a lot of hipster-types who are cool kids et al fans are more apt to relate to songs about bikes and video games and cereal than ones about popping champagne at strip clubs (i say it seems cuz i dont know anyone irl who is a cool kids fan, let alone someone who likes cool kids but dismisses gangster fun time raps) which explains why cool kids fans reach for the cool kids album when they want their dose of fun time rap not gucci mane
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:46 (fifteen years ago) link
why do 'hipsters' have such a disproportionate media influence
See definition of the word "hipsters"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:48 (fifteen years ago) link
i think whiney is otm
we are talking about urb and the internet here not murderdog and lennox ave.
whose interests does defining 'hipsters' as a singular entity with similar aesthetic tastes serve
we're all using hipsters as strawmen for cool kids fans here so our own
why should we surrender so much of this coverage to people covering this small circle of insular fashionistas
do you mean coverage of rap music in general? i dont quite get what you mean by this
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 11 June 2008 22:51 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm luistening to -- juvenile 400 degreez -- black president, hero -- rick ross/mannie fresh - japanese denim -- ballgreezy - shone -- alfamega/busta
― dylannn, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:07 (fifteen years ago) link
-- rick ross/mannie fresh - japanese denim
does steve shasta have too much influence on rap?
― and what, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:08 (fifteen years ago) link
btw im staying out of this guys http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:a0iTGCvXx5wVGM:http://www.seancoon.org/wp-content/postimages/tom_delay_mug_shot.jpg
― and what, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I'M TALKIN JAPANESE DENIM MONEY STUFFED IN EM
<------------ got smurf legs from rockin fake evisu
― dylannn, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:16 (fifteen years ago) link
-- and what, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:10 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
just cuz yr girl likes kid sister >:^(
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:34 (fifteen years ago) link
tru tru
― and what, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:36 (fifteen years ago) link
j0rdan yr argument is circular. hipsters are kids who like cool kids. cool kids getting hyped out the ass is ok because hipsters like them. who are hipsters? people who like cool kids
try to bring down the tribal aspect of this a minute and look at media coverage as not being 'for' hipsters. right now a small group of people end up being hugely influential on large groups of people and how they think about music. why is this ok/what does it mean/how will it affect how we talk about culture and what values is it that this small group of ppl are perpetuating, and not just values in an ideological sense but in an aesthetic one as well
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:37 (fifteen years ago) link
i do kinda think we as yknow white rap nerds are overlooking how somebody like kid sister (fukk the rest of these cats imo) can be almost like a role model for radio-listening black girls who dig rap but dont wanna fit into the trina/kim mode or jean grae style raw spitta
― and what, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:38 (fifteen years ago) link
how far do u take that though. cool kids can be a role model for kids who ride bikes and dont like fellatio but that doesnt make them worth hearing
i dont actually hate pro nails or anything btw ... like i said on a single-by-single basis this 'genre' is alright with me on occasion
still think this one is way fun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxrWg-5Cbw
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:42 (fifteen years ago) link
right now a small group of people end up being hugely influential on large groups of people and how they think about music
Are you talking about the fashionistas here? Because media influence on anyone these days is kind of LOL.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:50 (fifteen years ago) link
writers, historians and critics still serve as gatekeepers for how ppl think about music
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 00:53 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAy8d0oyElg
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 01:06 (fifteen years ago) link
http://friendsofdoom.com/gz/img/post/news/2007-04-17-keymaster.jpg
― am0n, Thursday, 12 June 2008 01:17 (fifteen years ago) link
as this will always be true you either gotta put up or shut up to change the discourse don'tcha
― J0hn D., Thursday, 12 June 2008 01:19 (fifteen years ago) link
which is why im putting up in this thread?
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 03:05 (fifteen years ago) link
that's also kinda bullshit right?
― balls, Thursday, 12 June 2008 03:11 (fifteen years ago) link
i mean radio programmers, club djs, ppl who pick music for soundtracks, ppl who pick music for ads, ppl who pick music for sports arenas - these are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger gatekeepers right?
― balls, Thursday, 12 June 2008 03:13 (fifteen years ago) link
nah you're over simplifying me. for one im using (well we all are) the term hipsters as a huge strawman-- obv i dont mean every hipster walking the face of every us metropolis, just that the cool kids fan base is made up largely of "hipsters" (fashonistas, w/e), however many "hipsters" that is. for one, ya i think it's ok for cool kids to get hyped out the ass cuz i happen to like them a lot, but all im saying is that it makes sense for hipster/indie rock publications to either a. cover rap groups that their readership digs or b. cover rap groups that they think their readership will dig. would i prefer to see boosie or rich boy get an urb cover? yeah, but i could say the same thing about rolling stone, blender, xxl, vibe, the source, gq, spin etc etc etc
im going to run with this and pretend as if whiney and john and blount aren't right about this "small group of people" having no influence (i really have no idea if they are right or not). for one i think it would be great for a small group of people (i assume you mean urb type mag editors) to be able to gatekeep music, but of course those people are going to make some missteps. i have a much bigger problem w/ xxl and vibe fucking up their covers wrt the "right" rappers then urb and the fader. i just think you're overstating the amount of influence a magazine like urb has, and not in the whiney g lol corporation/lol ppl don't listen to media way, but on the overall discourse of rap music
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 06:51 (fifteen years ago) link
lol I just noticed capo and camron in that high school musical pic
― The Brainwasher, Thursday, 12 June 2008 07:18 (fifteen years ago) link
fab's a milli http://www.zshare.net/audio/1347064340e31214/
b/w the punch lines on this and his verse on "nuthin on me" he's approaching an o_O level semi-comeback here
"i only smoke dutches/i ont feel ees muhfuckas" "ill serve your fruity ass like wet willies muhfucka"
etc etc
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 07:27 (fifteen years ago) link
that sucks
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:05 (fifteen years ago) link
j0rdan who says boosie wants that type of coverage. it aint an interesting interview if the interviewer aint an interesting conversation
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:08 (fifteen years ago) link
media influence aint LOL
unless its a good writer
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:09 (fifteen years ago) link
j0rdan who says boosie wants that type of coverage
this is basically what i've been saying-- not that cool kids are more worthy than boosie wrt an urb cover or that cool kids cover is more "ok" than boosie, just that i think deej is glossing over artist intent when he bemoans the fact that only cocaine blunts is rating a big tuck song over a cool kids one
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:13 (fifteen years ago) link
among other things obviously
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:17 (fifteen years ago) link
hustles is hustles, though everybody not together and their own lines of the mainstream underground
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:32 (fifteen years ago) link
it was obv the baltimore d-bag scene couldn't hold a weight from what i read-- who knows though,. sure there's top shelf there too.
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:33 (fifteen years ago) link
only cocaine blunts is rating a big tuck song over a cool kids one
bad example-- what i mean i should've said is that deej is glossing over artist intent when he bemoans the fact that urb is rating cool kids but ignoring big tuck
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:35 (fifteen years ago) link
the cool kids aint been freestylin off top shine like tuck ever, have they?? whats the comparison
― usic, Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:41 (fifteen years ago) link
both recently but out songs w/ the same sample
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 08:42 (fifteen years ago) link
dan deacon seems like he would totally work on e, otoh when i saw him two weeks ago he was wearing a jar jar binks shirt
sorry to intrude. odds on this 'hipster-rap' biz managing any kind of significant presence in englishesland, anyone? i am vaguely curious
― thomp, Thursday, 12 June 2008 10:39 (fifteen years ago) link
-- balls, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:13 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
here we're talking about short vs. long term cultural capital
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:19 (fifteen years ago) link
like 'cool i get on a soundtrack - maybe i can add an addition to my house once the record companies take their massive percentage' vs. 'my music is so timeless thanks to the continued work of the critical community that one day i'll be able to release an album sold over the internet straight to the consumer and make insane bank on it.'
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:20 (fifteen years ago) link
that 2nd part refers to an album that we might discuss on an I Love In Rainbows board
also the thing about this: i mean radio programmers, club djs
is that there's a lot more democratic process happening here. radio programmers have to sell advertising, club djs need to keep people buying alcohol. the people are gonna be driving this process to a great degree
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:24 (fifteen years ago) link
all im saying is that it makes sense for hipster/indie rock publications to either a. cover rap groups that their readership digs or b. cover rap groups that they think their readership will dig.
you're not getting what im saying but the key sentence is here. Who is their readership, and why is what a hipster publication likes what a hipster publication likes? You're acting like its some sort of democratic forum when really its just a small group of people - smaller than the number of people who read pitchfork, smaller than the number of self-identified 'hipsters' - who happen to pay attention to a particular aesthetic niche, which then snowballs quickly because this group has access to the media game.
and i said this already, im not talking about Urb like its the start of this shit, right now Urb is just an echo chamber for shit a month or two later, like most hipster print mags its wayy behind the times and serves only to reinforce the boundaries of where a particular aesthetic begins and ends
the point isnt about whether or not boosie should be on the cover, the point is that i happen to think that the aesthetic choices that dominate current 'hipster music' circles right now are kinda bullshit and the sooner folks acknowledge this the less ill have to put up with the cool kids
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:30 (fifteen years ago) link
its not like we havent witnessed this shit happen so i dont get whats so hard about it to understand. why diplo? right place right time, played the media game, had ACCESS to the media game. does anyone here really think that hipsters in socal couldnt wait to hear about this guy who plays mashups at parties in philly?? well, once they heard about it in urb they did!
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:35 (fifteen years ago) link
or stylus lol preemptive zing
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:36 (fifteen years ago) link
odds on this 'hipster-rap' biz managing any kind of significant presence in englishesland, anyone?
given the amount of PR email bombardment i've had re: the cool kids, sadly high. i've never heard their stuff though.
on the one hand i totally feel what deej is saying, it's so frustrating to see the 'hipster kids' who dominate our little media & music industry bubbles pick up on this sort of music. the reason the music itself seems lame is because it kind of tries a little too hard to be 'different', and that those differences are manifest in distancing itself from the rest of the genre. and warning bells really start to ring when i see a hip-hop act whose audience seems to be exclusively indie kids who don't care about hip-hop generally. it's like, they only like hip-hop when it's sufficiently not-hip-hop.
(cool kids, diplo, MIA et al : hip-hop :: justice, simian mobile disco et al : dance)
on the other hand i think it might just be better if we acknowledged that just cuz these people dominate our bubble of music discussion etc doesn't mean they dominate, um, the wider culture...we could all just try ignoring that pfork exists apart from tom ewing's columns cuz it's a) totally lame b) totally indie so what do you expect c) not that important. it helps that the site always crashes my computer.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:53 (fifteen years ago) link
though i also see deej's point re long-term cultural capital - cometimes you can just FEEL stuff being canonised, placed on this pedestal for the next gen to unwittingly swallow up, and so much of it is so bad
― lex pretend, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:54 (fifteen years ago) link
(nb i LOVE 'pro nails' and kid sister generally)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:59 (fifteen years ago) link
i hesitate to back up the dance parallels primarily bcuz here in the states there isnt a mainstream club sound that has the kind of pervasive presence that hip-hop does so its not like kids who get really into smd are passing up on shit that is right in their backyard already
― deej, Thursday, 12 June 2008 12:01 (fifteen years ago) link
it's "hip-hop geared specifically to indie kids" and "dance geared specifically to indie kids" - it follows really obviously that hipsters/indie kids will be into that shit more than people like us, who are more into hip-hop and dance than indie. real qn is - why are we attributing so much tastemaking power to the indie kids? (or if we're right to do so, why do they have so much tastemaking power? why don't we dismiss it as another example of people w/lame taste jumping on music which is geared towards their lame taste, and get on with liking what we like?)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 12 June 2008 12:05 (fifteen years ago) link
-- J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 07:27 (5 hours ago) Link
kinda gets my goat when people are suddenly on Fab's dick because of the Carter III feature and saying it's his best verse ever or best in years -- his Gangsta Grillz a few months ago was really good!
― some dude, Thursday, 12 June 2008 12:51 (fifteen years ago) link